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Christmas Trees In Houses Of Sikhs


JSinghnz
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You limit Akal Parukh waheguru in thinking that waheguru has not took human form, yet all living matter is of wahegurus form and creation, how is this against the thesis of sikhi?

Brother let me be clear from the onset, on this matter you know I am now treading on territory that hitherto I have failed to tread. You know me well by now and you know I usually limit myself to discussions of mundane worldly things, such as social history etc. So, bearing that in mind, I'm continuing this discussion with you for 2 reasons. Firstly, because I have a desire to learn from you and secondly, because your nature thus far has suggested that you deserve the common decency of a meaningful and thoughtful discussion.

Now this is where I am coming from : My understanding and appreciation of Gurbani manifests itself by looking at it with my historian eyes. Given that historical context I have, for example, understood why many of the great Bhagats, included in SGGS ji, have often used various Hindu dieties in their verses. See this is where it gets not only complicated but also dangerous when one remembers the naivity and general un-education of the Punjabi masses.

They used the names of Hindu dieties for a purpose, and that purpose was that it would get the attention of and thus resonate with the intended receivers of the message....i.e the Punjabi masses. The trouble is now, many centuries later, many Sikhs see the numerous references to Krishna, ram etc and conclude that it must mean how Gurus believed in them (as Gods) too.

I have a habit, Sikhseeker, I have learn't, of leaving you unfulfilled. This time, I shall take my leave by fullfilling my end of the bargain and directly answering your question of when and where it says Sikhs do not belive in Avatars...i,e God in human form...i.e when you ask : "Please upload quotes of gurbani or sikhi ithias/sakhia where sikhi rejects the existence of the devte/devia" :

Incarnated beings do not know His limit. The Transcendent Lord, the Supreme Lord God, is infinite. - (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 894)

In each and every age, He creates the kings, who are sung of as His Incarnations. Even they have not found His limits; what can I speak of and contemplate? - (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 422

Millions of incarnations of Vishnu and Shiva, with matted hair yearn for You, O Merciful Lord; their minds and bodies are filled with infinite longing. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 455)

There were ten regal incarnations[2] of Vishnu; and then there was Shiva, the renunciate. He did not find Your limits either, although he grew weary of smearing his body with ashes. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 747)

How can we accept God coming into this world in human form?The Siddhas (people who try to attain spiritual powers by living in jungles) are tired by sitting with their eyes closed to find and see God but are been unable to. (Shabad Hazaray, Guru Gobind Singh Ji)

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Brother let me be clear from the onset, on this matter you know I am now treading on territory that hitherto I have failed to tread. You know me well by now and you know I usually limit myself to discussions of mundane worldly things, such as social history etc. So, bearing that in mind, I'm continuing this discussion with you for 2 reasons. Firstly, because I have a desire to learn from you and secondly, because your nature thus far has suggested that you deserve the common decency of a meaningful and thoughtful discussion.

Now this is where I am coming from : My understanding and appreciation of Gurbani manifests itself by looking at it with my historian eyes. Given that historical context I have, for example, understood why many of the great Bhagats, included in SGGS ji, have often used various Hindu dieties in their verses. See this is where it gets not only complicated but also dangerous when one remembers the naivity and general un-education of the Punjabi masses.

They used the names of Hindu dieties for a purpose, and that purpose was that it would get the attention of and thus resonate with the intended receivers of the message....i.e the Punjabi masses. The trouble is now, many centuries later, many Sikhs see the numerous references to Krishna, ram etc and conclude that it must mean how Gurus believed in them (as Gods) too.

I have a habit, Sikhseeker, I have learn't, of leaving you unfulfilled. This time, I shall take my leave by fullfilling my end of the bargain and directly answering your question of when and where it says Sikhs do not belive in Avatars...i,e God in human form...i.e when you ask : "Please upload quotes of gurbani or sikhi ithias/sakhia where sikhi rejects the existence of the devte/devia" :

Incarnated beings do not know His limit. The Transcendent Lord, the Supreme Lord God, is infinite. - (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 894)

In each and every age, He creates the kings, who are sung of as His Incarnations. Even they have not found His limits; what can I speak of and contemplate? - (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 422

Millions of incarnations of Vishnu and Shiva, with matted hair yearn for You, O Merciful Lord; their minds and bodies are filled with infinite longing. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 455)

There were ten regal incarnations[2] of Vishnu; and then there was Shiva, the renunciate. He did not find Your limits either, although he grew weary of smearing his body with ashes. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 747)

How can we accept God coming into this world in human form?The Siddhas (people who try to attain spiritual powers by living in jungles) are tired by sitting with their eyes closed to find and see God but are been unable to. (Shabad Hazaray, Guru Gobind Singh Ji)

WJKK WJKF

Veer ji,

Merry Christmas first of all, I hope you and your children are having a great day.

Thanks for the quotes, however gurbani still does not state that the devte/devia do not exist. They are an extra terrestrial race of a different biological and intellectual level than us humans. Their understanding and abilities has lead us to deem them devte/devia and as a result worship them, however worship should be of Akal purakh. Worship and praise are too different things.

These beings being deemed much more intelligent than us, still re subject to the five vices. However their presence has been felt through all ancient civilisations in different forms being malevolent and beneficent under many names.

Again, gurbani does not state anywhere that they do not exist, my emphasis being on the point that they are not of human form.

Gurbani talks about this form, as to state how another, more intelligent creation, who we deem to be gods to be in the same boat as us and being nothing if with the energy of Akal purakh waheguru.

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Again, gurbani does not state anywhere that they do not exist,

Does this not count as Gurbani ?

"How can we accept God coming into this world in human form?The Siddhas (people who try to attain spiritual powers by living in jungles) are tired by sitting with their eyes closed to find and see God but are been unable to" (Shabad Hazaray, Guru Gobind Singh Ji)

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Does this not count as Gurbani ?

"How can we accept God coming into this world in human form?The Siddhas (people who try to attain spiritual powers by living in jungles) are tired by sitting with their eyes closed to find and see God but are been unable to" (Shabad Hazaray, Guru Gobind Singh Ji)

WJKK WJKF

Veer ji this beautiful quote of gurbani is talking about Akal purakh being manifest in human form, not shiva, Khrisna or Durga mata. Again, these entities are not human form, but a different creation if how the messenger of death, is of a different creation to us humans.

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How can we accept God coming into this world in human form?The Siddhas (people who try to attain spiritual powers by living in jungles) are tired by sitting with their eyes closed to find and see God but are been unable to. (Shabad Hazaray, Guru Gobind Singh Ji)

The correct translation for above would be: In what way can Akal Purakh take human form? The key word in the above tuk is ਕਿਮ, which translates into "what way". Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji in the same shabad closer to the end says this about the forms of Akal Purakh:

Creating the earth, the sky and the nether regions, the One God pronounces Himself to have many forms.

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‘’Millions of rituals and actions are the root of entanglements" (GGSJ Ang:1148)

Sikhism rejects all kinds of ritual and superstitious practices that are followed by all other

religions and cultures. Sikhism is solely based upon the love and devotion of the One

Primal God. Therefore, Sikhs do not adhere to such ritual practices.

For Sikhs, any form of participation in religious fasts, idol worshipping of deities, pictures,

flowers, statues, and black magic are against Guru’s teachings.

‘’Without God, other actions are useless, fasting, daily rituals and austere self-

discipline – those who keep the practice of these, are rewarded with less than

a shell. Hereafter, the way is different; O Siblings of destiny, these things are of

no use at all’’II1II (GGSJ Ang: 216)

The Sikh faith explains that adhering to these practices will not help the soul achieve

liberation and become one with Vaheguru (God). These practices rather divert the soul

from the path of God by leading one into spiritual darkness through guises of Brahm Lok,

Vish Lok and Shiv Lok. The sad situation today is hundreds of people are being duped into

ritual practices, following Babeh, Pundits, telephoning and visiting hand readers, astrologers

or card readers to foretell their future. Such practices go against the Guru’s teachings and

are frowned upon as misleading and corrupt. Many of these so-called Pundits and

astrologers are simply there for the money and self- recognition, not for the welfare of the

people.

‘’After all their reading, the Pundits, the religious scholars, and the astrologers

argue and debate. Their intellect and understanding are perverted; they just

don’t understand. They are full of greed and corruption’. (GGSJ Ang:27)

Some of these astrologers have gone to the extent of printing Kandeh, Ik Onkar signs or

illustrated images of the Sikh Guru’s on their leaflets to mislead members of the Sikh community

io spiritual darkness and falsehood. Those who have no understanding or knowledge of ritual

practices, simply fall victim to them.

Some of the common solutions that are offered are; throwing seven coconuts or 7 kilo of rice in

a flowing river, keep bird food in a white cloth under your pillow and then giving it to birds the

next day. Donating a bag of yellow dall to a religious place on a Tuesday, not wearing a certain

colour on this day...etc. This list is never ending. Further ‘problem –solving’ solutions are

wearing certain precious stone rings, wearing of sacred coloured threads and pendants.

‘’The faithful ones DO NOT follow empty religious rituals’’ (GGSJ Ang: 3)

‘’That the humble being who chants God’s Name, remains forever awake and

aware, night and day. He is not affected by charms and spells, nor is he harmed by

the wicked eye’’ II1IIPauseII (GGSJ Ang:818)

The typical Hindu rituals that are being performed are fasts like;

PORANMASHI KA BARAT:Fasting each month during a full moon & to refrain from eating salt.

MAHA SHIVRATRA :Fasting and prayer-offering to the deity SHIVA.

KARVA CHOTH KA BARAT:Fasting for your Husband, so that he lives longer

NAVATRI: Fasting and pray-offering to the deity, DURGA.

“Within him there is no meditation on the Lord. That man wastes his life in vain –

keep this in mind II1IIpauseII He who baths at sacred shrines of pilgrimage, and

adheres to fasts: he has no control over his mind. Know that such religion is a waste

of time to him. I speak the Truth for his sake II 1 II

Just like a stone, kept immersed in water, motionless, the water does not

enter it. So, understand that the mortal being who is lacking devotional worship is

similar to that II2II

In the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, liberation comes from the Lords Name. The Guru has

revealed this secret. Says Nanak, he alone is a great man, who meditates on Gods

NameII3II3II (GGSJ ANG:831)

Guru Ji explains that one should stay away from these superstitious practices and items.

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Pagan evergreen tree; Many persons are unaware and perhaps don’t even know what the evergreen Christ-mas tree represents, placing them in their homes, decorating the tree with silver and gold, with flashing lights, but why?

The erect evergreen tree is a symbol of influence in fertility of the male reproduction organ and the reems represent the female reproduction organ, which is a Pagan Custom, nothing to do with God.

‘’Ritual Practices bind people in egoism, meeting together they worship idols’’ II1II (GGSJ Ang 32)

The Nicolaitans (followers of Santa (ni)-Claus) celebrated Yule-tide (Christmas now). Yuletide is a Pagan festival from the Sun worshiping Babylonian Mystery religion (name changed to Christianity in 1st century by Sorcerer Simon Pater). Ask yourself why it’s said ‘Santa comes through the chimney? The Satanic elite say ‘it’s symbolic coming through the hells of fire into your home. Santa Claus wears scarlet which the scriptures state is ‘the great red dragon – Satan’. Is Santa an anagram of Satan?

What are people going to gain by indulging in presenting gifts and believing in a deity ‘Santa Claus’? A moment of satisfaction! Then what?

For this Pagan Ritual day millions of turkeys and chickens are slaughtered. How can God be pleased?

25th December - birth of many Sun gods- coincidence?

In GGSJ Ang 1103: Gurbani critises ritualistic and sacrificial slaughtering of animals as hypocritical, inhumane and iIlogical. Guru Ji explains that if you say that the one God is in all, so why kill chickens? Does he not pervade in the chickens? What is the meaning of killing the creation of God and presenting it before him (GGSJ Anj:1350).

Guru Ji takes a glimpse into the karmic cost of such actions and the external fate and what the destiny will be, if one continues to embrace eating meat. GGSJ Ang 1374; O Kabir! Blessed is the food of rice and lentils; who would have his head to be slain hereafter; for the meat he eats here.

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