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Cartoon Shooting France


mrggg123
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Jaa toon, veehr karda.

Funny how Pakindi Babar couldn't rebut Mirch's point that relaying facts does NOT equate to an insult.

Is "2+2=4" a fact or an insult according to Pakindi Babar?

If a man openly supported + carried out terrorism in his life, then why wouldn't peeps expose that thru free speech?

If a man had 11 wives at one stage + dozens of slavegirl concubines in his harem then why can't that be exposed?

If you have any rebuttal to ex-Muslim Dr Ali Sina go right ahead and enlighten us:

Ali Sina's Challenge www.faithfreedom.org

I receive many emails from angry Muslims, who sometimes beg me, and sometimes order me to remove this site. I consider both, pleading and bullying, signs of psychopathology. Argumentum ad baculum and argumentum ad misericordiam are both logical fallacies.

If you do not like this site and want me to remove it, instead of acting as a bully or as a victim, disprove my charges against Muhammad logically. Not only will I remove the site, I will publicly announce that Islam is a true religion. I will also pay

$50,000 U.S. dollars

to anyone who can disprove any of the dozen of the accusations that I have made against Muhammad. I accuse Muhammad of being:

a narcissist

a misogynist

a rapist

a pedophile

a lecher

a torturer

a mass murderer

a cult leader

an assassin

a terrorist

a looter

I have debated with many Muslims. Their defense of Islam can be summarized in two categories:

  • Denial of the authenticity of Islamic sources that report the stories of crimes of Muhammad (example: debate with Edip Yukssel, a leader of the Submitters)
  • Moral relativism and situational ethics, e.g., “In those days, pedophilia, assassination, rape, raid, pillage, massacre and lying, were common practices, so Muhammad is innocent because he did what everyone else was doing.” Muslims even go as far as to question the legitimacy of the Golden Rule to claim I do not have any basis to condemn Muhammad. In other words, who can say what is good and what is evil? That is up to the messenger of God to decide. (Example: debate with Yamin Zakaria)

These are the main two arguments that Muslims present in defense of Islam. Any rational person can see they are logical fallacies.

These charges are irrefutable. You simply can't disprove them because they are reported in Islamic sources and as such they are as good as confession. You can't acquit a criminal after he has confessed, unless you plead insanity, which is my point.

Muslims often ask: "Who will judge whether or not an attempt to disprove your accusations against Muhammad and Islam, was successful?" The readers will be the jury. It is not difficult to see which side is right once both arguments are presented without one side fearing the other. I will publish the debates in this site. My opponents are also encouraged to publish them in any Islamic site. Please note that I will not accept face to face debates. The debates must be in writing.

Edit 2007/07/29

The above challenge was issued in 2001 and it hasn't been met yet. See the debates I had with Muslims. Also see the pathetic attempt of some Muslims trying to refute me here , here, here and here. Is that all the Muslim world can offer? Where are the scholars of Islam? Why such an important task is left to a bunch of amateurs who actually do more damage to Islam? Isn't it time that the real scholars come forth and refute my charges?

The truth is that several of the people that debated me were real scholars, such as the eminent Pakistani scholar Mr. Javed Ahmed Ghamidi and his disciple Dr. Khalid Zaheer. This debate is a must read and is available for download. Dr. Zaheer is a learned man, a moderate Muslim and a good human being. I have utmost respect for him.

As of this date (2007), I will no longer debate with people who want to debate anonymously. I only debate with reputable scholars. I made this decision because often, Muslims moved by their faith and zealotry, but with little knowledge of Islam, challenge me to debate. They rehash the same tried and refuted arguments that bore everyone and disappear. Then, other Muslims, either accuse me of fabricating those debates or pooh-pooh my opponents for not being scholars.

As of this day, I am also doubling the reward. If you are not a reputable scholar, you can still win the prize. All you have to do is persuade a scholar to debate with me. If he (she) disproves my charges or can prove that Muhammad was a prophet of God, both you and he (she) will be rewarded $50,000 dollars each. This is to encourage you to write to your admired scholar and convince them that Islam is in danger and that it is their duty to defend it. Once you write to invite someone, please CC a copy to us for announcing the invitation. Our email is faithfreedom2 (at) gmail.com

Yes, Islam is in grave danger. Never, since its inception, Islam has faced a threat as serious as this. Today, millions of ex-Muslims are questioning the claimed truth of Islam, can make their criticisms heard worldwide, and unlike before, not fear for their lives. As long as these questions are not answered, this trend is only bound to continue, until the trickle becomes a torrent and the fall of Islam becomes obvious. In the past, the critics of Islam briefly shined like lamps in darkness, only to be put out by winds of persecution.

What is happening today can be likened to the break of the dawn. Darkness has no chance in front of this much light. Muslims are waking up and leaving Islam like never before. A spiritual and intellectual revolution is underway. This is the century of enlightenment of the benighted Muslims. The giant is finally awakening. The days of Islam are numbered. This demon of hate and ignorance will be slain by the hands of its own primary victims. The unity of mankind and the world peace are around the corner.

Please advertise this challenge. Every Muslim must see it. This is like throwing water on their fire. Nothing will dampen their zeal more than the realization that among a billion Muslims there is not a single scholar who can prove the wild claims of Muhammad, nor acquit him of these grave charges. This unmet challenge has a sobering effect on them. They can make any excuse, such as, I am not worth their response, that there have been greater men than me who opposed Islam, or that I have been refuted already, but they will not be able to fool themselves. The more this challenge is circulated, the more Muslims will be forced to remain silent and doubt Islam. Do not undermine the psychological effect of this impossible challenge.

Sincerely

Ali Sina

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One thing I hope we all have learned is that if this mocking was done to Sikh faith we will NOT act this way.besides being cruel n killing innocents It is not effective n has more ppl digging up the cartoon.also it will ruin the life of the revengers n the Sikh ppl will have to face backlash.Rotting in jail, running or dead, will be there lot. While the Sikh nation has to bow head in shame or deny.

YES We SHUD STOP it. But not by using drastic measures that it does not warrent.

Yes we follow Gur Ki Ninda Sunai Na Kaan. And protests are not a suitable answer: we call attention to it which is the last thing we want, we popularize the cartoon and by protesting we are demanding others do something: the magazine n ppl who had no care when publishing it OR common ppl on the streets who don't care or understand. Also it makes us seem whiny intolerant ppl. We may have intolerance to hearing our gurus ninda but we shud not advertise this...most won't understand n to our enemies we announce a weak point on which they can taunt us

So we shud sue magazine it will be quiet affair hopefully ,if we don't make too much noise, n will hurt magazine most n maybe make laws to protect against this in future.N like with the Muslims if we r ignored in courts then...idk but before resorting to 'bhet karo naal kirpan' think: magazine is not person. Yes cartoonist is but he did not 'talk' so we did not listen to nindya.Also it was not personally to u or in front of u but to every Sikh, so response shud not only be ur responsibility n will effect all Sikhs so done carefully. So basically I'm saying use the method that ends the mockery quickest. Because the metaphorical meaning of 'bhet karo sang kirpan' can be end it quickly, shut him up fast.

But no violence!! Yes in past we used violence such as suicide bombs which west cant condone or understand But it was against the likes of Beanta a genocide causer. We seem to not take the order to use violence as a last resort only when all means have FAILED, seriously...

Reading some comments I'm scared, I don't want another Air India incident that we have to deny n rebut to keep our ithihaas blameless n glorious.

when on earth did we use suicide bombs apart from helping Beant depart this realm ? and that was after over 25,000 peoples' deaths , killing is a different level to a pathetic cartoon surely

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1. Freedom of expression is something Muslims do not understand or accept. One is not even allowed to question anything related to Islam. They are known for being violent and not resolving issues intellectually (perhaps because they can't refute the 'Kafir' without suffering from cognitive dissonance); I refer to Muslims cutting of the hand of a Professor in India in the past and ofcourse the Paris incident amongst many others.

2. On the other hand, the West has its hypocrisies too. There are reports of someone being sacked from Charlie Hebdo for being an anti-semite some time back. Being homophobic is also not tolerated because the West largely deems it as acceptable (a Dutch politican was reprimanded by a High Court judge for his 'homophobic' statements citing that freedom of expression has its limits). But being Islamophobic suddenly becomes freedom of speech...

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The Charlie Hebdo attack was horrible but this is what the real Islam teaches. This is acceptable to Muslims according to the Quran, Hadith and Sharia. It is a fact that in Islam, Muhammad is considered the most Perfect of humans and every Muslim has to follow his footsteps. Their books say that Muhammad got his critics killed, even for things like writing derogatery poems which tells us a lot about their behaviour nowadays. Some of the critics who were assassinated on Muhammads order include: Uqba, Hubayra, Kab Bin Ashraf, Abdullah Ibn Zibaari and a few others.

PS. your newspapers and TV Channels are not talking about the Nigeria massacre of thousands by Boko Haram. Read up on that too.

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when on earth did we use suicide bombs apart from helping Beant depart this realm ? and that was after over 25,000 peoples' deaths , killing is a different level to a pathetic cartoon surely

Well sikhs have used suicide bombin a few times sister. As u have mentioned, dilawer singh and bhai rajoana both were suicide bombers who killed beant cm of panjab in 95 via suicide bombing. 2 little girls, satnam kaur and waheguru kaur who were of the same age incidently as the chote sahibzade, were both suicide bombers, via hand grenades, during operation bluestar, to stop the advancement of the dirty indian army tanks. Which they succeeded in doin, and blew up the tanks, which meant further tanks couldnt advance. Also i remember reading how babbar akalis during british rule of india, used hand grenades as suicide bombers n blew themselves up, in order to free our gurdwareh frm masands n brits.

I personally dont think theres anything wrong in suicide bombing, it has only become the hallmark of terrorism thanks to these stupid muslim suicide bombers since 2000 onwards. Muslim bombers for eg, will have a problem with 1 person in a specific building, so instead of waiting n killing that 1 person outside, they will happily blow up the building itself, along with the 300+ ppl inside. What dilawer/balwant rajoana did, was detontate the bomb outside in the car park and NOT inside the building, where cm beant was going in, which would of caused immense casualties. Thats the difference between our lot (compassionate warriors) and the rest (blood thirsty scumbags).

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Look at all the anti-islamic posts here. None of the so called Sikhs have respect or knowledge of what the Guru Sahibs preached, how a few bad seeds do not make all bad. As they don't, they can not be regarded as Sikhs but patit.

Here....

Sikhs and Mughals (who were not practising Islam, as Arangezeb killed his own father etc} many Muslims are in Sikh Religion, Sheikh Farid Ji's verses are in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Sheikh Kabir Ji, Peer Budhan Shah, Sian Mian Mir who laid down the foundations of Darbar Sahib Amritsar, Peer Bhikan Shah who bowed towards Patna Sahib and not Mecca when he realised Dhan Guru Gobind Rai had taken birth, Bhai Mardana Ji who travelled with Guru Nanak Nirankar Ji - to mention just a few.

Fateh. (which is also a Persian word)

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Opinion is divided on the cartoon issue a lot of people think it's wrong to make offensive cartoons

French government approach is horrible and showing complete hate for islam

Today muslims are in a dilemma but this is all a strategy by governments muslims fell straight into the trap

But the whole affair stinks and both parties have contributed to making a more horrible hateful society

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