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Cartoon Shooting France


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Jagsaw

I am sure that Christianity and Hinduism would not be OK for Jesus and Ganesh being depicted in the way they were ( in certain positions) even if they allow their images to be.

The thing is Jagsaw, the west has no respect for anything not even for themselves. The more Islamic terrorism there is, the more grooming and gang rapes that are occuring, the more bragging about how Islam is the fastest growing religion and how Europe is going to be muslim in thirty years and the feeling how some of the western values are disrespected, do you really believe that the west will respect Islam or the prophet Mohammed.

I would not like our Gurus to be depicted in the same way but we are not going for world domination.

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But I just told you...and I said it very clearly....how Christianity and Hinduism is not only OK with physically depicting their 'gods' and prophets, they actively encourage it.

Sikhism....and Islam....on the other hand, most certainly does NOT.

Its about respect. Respet for one another. They respect our beliefs and we respect theirs.

So let me ask you and jkvlondon this question : Are you honestly saying you'd support our Guru ji being depicted in the same disgusting way ?

If not, why are you being a hypocrite and applauding the hurt the Muslim feels in place of you ?

I would be hurt sure , and so are many of my muslim bretheren but violence is never the first go-to for us we give three chances as Taught to us by our Guru ji then when all means have failed then the sword is taken in hand ... did they sue the publication ...no did they protest outside their offices ..no then what methods did they try before violence

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Remember, the west (or Europe, at least) believes that religion is there to be ridiculed. They, the west, have every right to offend. You, the muslim/Sikh/Jew etc - have every right to be offended. They themselves acknowledge this much.

Freedom of speech is limited by law: we can't be racist, libellous, defamatory etc - there are laws in place (in the UK). Therefore, freedom of expression in it's entirety is not guaranteed.

On the other hand, we have films like The Life of Brian, banned by most local authorities in the UK for 25 years.

It's a difficult balancing act.

Just to top it off, for those from the UK, thanks to protection from the race relations act 1976, Sikhs and Jews are protected by law from such insults anyway. No other faith group has such protection.

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It is verysickening and absolutely disgusting and misuse of freedom of speech to draw such awfull drawings and publishing millions of copies. Plus they 100% know for sure that their act will offend certain communities in millions. This should not be allowed at all in any country.

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Guest Jacfsing2

We should acknowledge other things in France, first we should remember that Sikhs saved the French in WWI and WWII, how does the French Government repay this debt? By making Turbans illegal in most sources of identification. Is this anyway to repay those who risked their lives to save a nation on the other side of the world? DON'T TRUST THESE PEOPLE! They will backstab you.

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But since Prophet Muhammad had sex with a 9year old girl (Aisha) when he was 54, had eleven wives and many dozens of slavegirls that their own Hadiths confirm he had sex should there really be any murders?

Even ex-Muslims who have ditched Islam are exposing Prophet Muhammad:

Sina's Challenge www.faithfreedom.org

I receive many emails from angry Muslims, who sometimes beg me, and sometimes order me to remove this site. I consider both, pleading and bullying, signs of psychopathology. Argumentum ad baculum and argumentum ad misericordiam are both logical fallacies.

If you do not like this site and want me to remove it, instead of acting as a bully or as a victim, disprove my charges against Muhammad logically. Not only will I remove the site, I will publicly announce that Islam is a true religion. I will also pay

$50,000 U.S. dollars

to anyone who can disprove any of the dozen of the accusations that I have made against Muhammad. I accuse Muhammad of being:

a narcissist

a misogynist

a rapist

a pedophile

a lecher

a torturer

a mass murderer

a cult leader

an assassin

a terrorist

a mad man

a looter

I have debated with many Muslims. Their defense of Islam can be summarized in two categories:

  • Denial of the authenticity of Islamic sources that report the stories of crimes of Muhammad (example: debate with Edip Yukssel, a leader of the Submitters)
  • Moral relativism and situational ethics, e.g., “In those days, pedophilia, assassination, rape, raid, pillage, massacre and lying, were common practices, so Muhammad is innocent because he did what everyone else was doing.” Muslims even go as far as to question the legitimacy of the Golden Rule to claim I do not have any basis to condemn Muhammad. In other words, who can say what is good and what is evil? That is up to the messenger of God to decide. (Example: debate with Yamin Zakaria)

These are the main two arguments that Muslims present in defense of Islam. Any rational person can see they are logical fallacies.

These charges are irrefutable. You simply can't disprove them because they are reported in Islamic sources and as such they are as good as confession.

You can't acquit a criminal after he has confessed, unless you plead insanity, which is my point.

Muslims often ask: "Who will judge whether or not an attempt to disprove your accusations against Muhammad and Islam, was successful?" The readers will be the jury. It is not difficult to see which side is right once both arguments are presented without one side fearing the other. I will publish the debates in this site. My opponents are also encouraged to publish them in any Islamic site. Please note that I will not accept face to face debates. The debates must be in writing.

Edit 2007/07/29

The above challenge was issued in 2001 and it hasn't been met yet. See the debates I had with Muslims. Also see the pathetic attempt of some Muslims trying to refute me here , here, here and here. Is that all the Muslim world can offer? Where are the scholars of Islam? Why such an important task is left to a bunch of amateurs who actually do more damage to Islam? Isn't it time that the real scholars come forth and refute my charges?

The truth is that several of the people that debated me were real scholars, such as the eminent Pakistani scholar Mr. Javed Ahmed Ghamidi and his disciple Dr. Khalid Zaheer. This debate is a must read and is available for download. Dr. Zaheer is a learned man, a moderate Muslim and a good human being. I have utmost respect for him.

As of this date (2007), I will no longer debate with people who want to debate anonymously. I only debate with reputable scholars. I made this decision because often, Muslims moved by their faith and zealotry, but with little knowledge of Islam, challenge me to debate. They rehash the same tried and refuted arguments that bore everyone and disappear. Then, other Muslims, either accuse me of fabricating those debates or pooh-pooh my opponents for not being scholars.

As of this day, I am also doubling the reward. If you are not a reputable scholar, you can still win the prize. All you have to do is persuade a scholar to debate with me. If he (she) disproves my charges or can prove that Muhammad was a prophet of God, both you and he (she) will be rewarded $50,000 dollars each. This is to encourage you to write to your admired scholar and convince them that Islam is in danger and that it is their duty to defend it. Once you write to invite someone, please CC a copy to us for announcing the invitation. Our email is faithfreedom2 (at) gmail.com

Yes, Islam is in grave danger. Never, since its inception, Islam has faced a threat as serious as this. Today, millions of ex-Muslims are questioning the claimed truth of Islam, can make their criticisms heard worldwide, and unlike before, not fear for their lives. As long as these questions are not answered, this trend is only bound to continue, until the trickle becomes a torrent and the fall of Islam becomes obvious. In the past, the critics of Islam briefly shined like lamps in darkness, only to be put out by winds of persecution. What is happening today can be likened to the break of the dawn. Darkness has no chance in front of this much light. Muslims are waking up and leaving Islam like never before. A spiritual and intellectual revolution is underway. This is the century of enlightenment of the benighted Muslims. The giant is finally awakening. The days of Islam are numbered. This demon of hate and ignorance will be slain by the hands of its own primary victims. The unity of mankind and the world peace are around the corner.

Please advertise this challenge. Every Muslim must see it. This is like throwing water on their fire. Nothing will dampen their zeal more than the realization that among a billion Muslims there is not a single scholar who can prove the wild claims of Muhammad, nor acquit him of these grave charges. This unmet challenge has a sobering effect on them. They can make any excuse, such as, I am not worth their response, that there have been greater men than me who opposed Islam, or that I have been refuted already, but they will not be able to fool themselves. The more this challenge is circulated, the more Muslims will be forced to remain silent and doubt Islam. Do not undermine the psychological effect of this impossible challenge.

Sincerely

Ali Sina

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I have a few views on this matter

1) The killing of 12 unarmed civilians who just created cartoons no matter how vile can never be justified and is absolutely an evil crime.

2) There is a video on the internet that states within 30years Muslims will have enough majority to form a government in France. Western Europe has a serious Muslim demographics problem that poses an ideological threat to their nations way of life. Islam culturally cant exist with other cultures and ways of life thats a given every non-muslim knows this. The problem is how to get them out of europe or make them change their religion is what the powers that be are not overtly trying to sort out. So all sort of schemes will be created in next few years to ensure survival of western world vs the islamic demographic time boomb that is coming in the near future that can sway enough votes to elect an islamic government.

3) Also there is no such thing as freedom of speech these french cartoonists that mock religion they are mocking religions to be viciously provocative yet if they create images of pro-pedo stuff or pro-woman bashing or pro-killing then they will arrested so where is the absolutely freedom of speech and expression then? Why does the UK and USA arrest and jail trolls who just post racist nonsense on social media against jews, blacks, asians, whites, politicians and individuals?

Where is their right of freedom of speech and expression? Because cartoons demonising jews as rich banksters created by the nazis in germany led to the german population to hate on the whole jewish community and in turn lead to world war 2.....there was race riots in 1970s/80s due to racist speeches ./ expressions by white people against minorities which lead to anti-racist legislation. So there is not such thing as absolute right to free speech and expression its subjectively in regards to the population of the nation.

4) Western governments aid despotic and authoritarian regimes aboard with covert deals in the desert, financially aid packages to keep their puppets in power in order to have the control and power over resources of foreign lands. Which creates unstable people of that region determined to take up arms against the western countries that brought death and destruction to their people.

5) Everyone intelligent now knows these days that the evil corrupt banksters are the ones who fund Western government politicians who in turn fund jihadi islamic terrorist groups by paying off mullahs by proxy via militry intelligence agents. And the jihadi's in turn does the bidding of paid of islamic leader mullah. So the leader of these organisations takes orders on what act the western government wants them to commit in order to create pretext for foreign wars and invasions to steal resources of foreign lands and as an added bonus to take away your civil liberties and human rights via undemocratic secret trails and intrusive surveillance legislations.

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Such a pity, so much of hatred, of violence, of racism ..... it is horrible and certainly disgusting.

There are some conclusions to be taken in account, everytime these stupid things happen, in order to avoid them or minimize them, cause as long as this world will continue, foolish humans will continue behaving so ....

There is One God, he is not a hindu, christian, muslim or sikh.

He is like the Sun up over there.

Through His Light, He reaches all corners.

It is foolish to say or think, just because His Light enters my room, my land, my country....so we try to garb it and make it ours.

That is the problem, instead to make ourselves His lovers, and stay in His will, we do the contrary, we want to make Him as one of us or ours, as with a physical person, so naturally this can never be acheived, and rather we will become mad and stupid fanatics, and this will lead us to unnescessary conflicts and violence.

Ik Noor se sabh jug oopjay, kaun bhale kau mandey ...

Respect each and every person, irrespective of faith, gender, color or class ....

Do not try to force your opininos and faith on others.

Express yoursef with rationality, but giving space, and time...do not try to convert anyone, as, each one´s destiny is already written...as per his/her stay in the mayavee creation.

So what if someone believes or not, what we deem to be correct .... So what if we are many or alone.... each one of us, will have to go alone from here ....

So why so much show off and trying to force others and gain such multiplicity?

How de we get any spiritual benefits from all this nonsense?

The path of spirituality has to be walked by each soul alone, no mother father or brother can go with us there, so how can we expect multitudes walking towards Him there ?

Nonsense/moorakta has no limits....

Have we not heard: Sach Khand vasey Nirankar.

And if it is only Nirankar over there, where does, I, me, you, he, she, we, you, they, at all have any place?

If ever we have to make any sacrifice, let us not show the world openly outwardly, this has no value in His eyes, rather let us kill our polluted minds with His Name.

Sat Sree Akal.

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Jacfsing2,

Be careful when judging the French government with respect to the Sikhs. Don't forget, when Sardar HS Malik, a Oxford University student, wasn't eligible to be commissioned into the British army because he was 'Indian', the French Air Force accepted him with open arms. He was an ambulance driver in the French Croix Rouge. Much to the embarrassment of his Oxford tutors, who pulled a few strings with the RAF and the rest as they say is history.

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At the end of the day we Sikhs have a duty to rise above everything and everyone else and stand for truth. For that reason, we stand with the fallen victims and we also understand the hurt felt by Muslims.

But we go one step further.....we rise above our governments, our media etc who try and manipulate our minds and tell us what to think and how to think it.

On the very same day as the Paris attack 37 seven innocent people in Yemen were murdered in a terrorist attack by islamic extremists.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/officials-suicide-bomber-kills-15-yemen-28046604

Where's Obama's statement of sorrow about them ?

Where's David Cameron's statement of solidarity with them ?

Why aren't our flags being lowered in their memory ?

Why aren't Scotland Yard holding ceremonies in rememberance for them ?

Why is our media hardly mentioning it ?

2 bloody terrorist attacks on the same day. One claims 12 lives and the other claims 37 dark brown lives.

When you see how little value is placed on those brown lives remember to look in the mirror and see what category you fall into. That way you'll know if yours, and your children's lives have the same value as the europeans.

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