3Ho Does Beadbi Again Dancing

[JagsawSingh]

plus encouraging dancing along to kirtan is a simple NONO

Of course it is. We're all in agreement with that but what you're doing is looking at EVERY aspect of their existence with very negative eyes. Thats why you're refusing to see how incorporating an element of yoga into our daily lives will only do us good rather than harm, especially as we Punjabis, generally, are in extremely bad physical shape overall. You're refusing to see how dancing bhangra in an innocent neutral setting, without the trappings of lust or alcohol, can be a great form of physical exercise. It seems to me you are so focussed on their bad aspects, of which I admit there are many, your eyes simply refuse to see their good points.

[jkvlondon]

Of course it is. We're all in agreement with that but what you're doing is looking at EVERY aspect of their existence with very negative eyes. Thats why you're refusing to see how incorporating an element of yoga into our daily lives will only do us good rather than harm, especially as we Punjabis, generally, are in extremely bad physical shape overall. You're refusing to see how dancing bhangra in an innocent neutral setting, without the trappings of lust or alcohol, can be a great form of physical exercise. It seems to me you are so focussed on their bad aspects, of which I admit there are many, your eyes simply refuse to see their good points.

I am trying to keep to topic i.e. what they are doing which is not desirable in a sikh, what does not make them sikh . Sure you can do yoga , bhangra, gidda etc as you can play martial arts etc but that is not SIKHI related but is presented as necessary to know ...

you want positives

1. they make dastars visible and more commonplace

2. they break cultural expectations i.e. sikhs are only indians

3. They have translated Guru ji's bani to spanish (quality of translation I'm not sure of maybe someone can elaborate)

4. They know how to tie a dastar properly and when they keep kesh they do it fully not trimmed beards etc like some desi guys

5. There is a high proportion who try to learn and perform kirtan comparitively to average sikh population

6. More likely to immerse fully into Sikhi if gets proper exposure

7. Like to promote themselves and the sikh lifestyle

8. Laid back and not testostrone driven mostly

[JagsawSingh]

I am trying to keep to topic i.e. what they are doing which is not desirable in a sikh, what does not make them sikh . Sure you can do yoga , bhangra, gidda etc as you can play martial arts etc but that is not SIKHI related but is presented as necessary to know ...

you want positives

1. they make dastars visible and more commonplace

2. they break cultural expectations i.e. sikhs are only indians

3. They have translated Guru ji's bani to spanish (quality of translation I'm not sure of maybe someone can elaborate)

4. They know how to tie a dastar properly and when they keep kesh they do it fully not trimmed beards etc like some desi guys

5. There is a high proportion who try to learn and perform kirtan comparitively to average sikh population

6. More likely to immerse fully into Sikhi if gets proper exposure

7. Like to promote themselves and the sikh lifestyle

8. Laid back and not testostrone driven mostly

Excellent positives and, excellent attributes to have as human beings I'm sure you'll agree.

The thing about it is, virtually all of them are extremely happy, content,positive, fit and healthy and immersed in Bani.....the embodiment of chardi kala sikhs. Surely we have much to learn from them ?.....as well as much to teach them (given what this thread is about)

[jkvlondon]

Excellent positives and, excellent attributes to have as human beings I'm sure you'll agree.

The thing about it is, virtually all of them are extremely happy, content,positive, fit and healthy and immersed in Bani.....the embodiment of chardi kala sikhs. Surely we have much to learn from them ?.....as well as much to teach them (given what this thread is about)

a lot I have met personally were standoffish in Desi Sikh company, meaning totally mixed generations and ages and if you do fateh they kind of seem at a loss...that seemed a bit off considering they were dastar wearing...but again it takes allsorts to fill the world

[ms514]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Having Yoga as part and parcel of Sikhi is not Sikhi. Per Victory and Virtue/Sikh Dharma Manual (Western Sikh Rehat Maryada):

http://fateh.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/sikhism.nsf/d9c75ce4db27be328725639a0063aecc/5d4722f778d17b09872565b7007b33aa!OpenDocument

"While compiling this book, we were aware that it would be read by Sikhs who chose to become Sikhs, as well as those who were born into a Sikh family, usually of Indian origin. It is historical fact that almost all of the people who chose to become Sikhs were inspired to do so through the practice of Kundalini Yoga and the practice of Nam Simran at Kundalini Yoga classes. I do not believe that this is a coincidence. I believe that by the Grace of Guru Ram Das, who sits on the Throne of Raj Yog, the teachings of Kundalini Yoga were brought out of India to the West to lead the souls whose destiny it is to walk in the Guru’s Way unto the Guru. I believe that it is important to maintain the practice of this "preparation". We also recognize that it is the Grace of the Guru which leads us unto liberation. "

"A Sikh uses the techniques of Kundalini Yoga in the same way that s/he would take a bath in the morning, or be conscious of how s/he maintains the body purely, eating a vegetarian diet, not partaking of tobacco or alcohol. In other words, a Sikh prepares this sacred body temple as purely as possible to bring the Holy Naam, the Holy Gurbani into it, to do justice to that Sacred Word. However, Kundalini Yoga prepares not only the physical body, but all of the Ten Bodies of which this magnificent human system is composed."

Open parchar of Sikhs dancing as being supported by Gurbani. I refuted this a long time ago by editing the Sikhiwiki article, only to have the maintainer of Sikhiwiki come back and attempt to engage in further rationalization by Gurbani that Sikhi supports dacing. It does not - the dancing is misconstrued and misinterpreted by the author of the article and worldly dancing as is engaged in by most is contrary to Gurmat per Gurbani.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Sri_Guru_Granth_Sahib_on_dance

Yogi Sahib had his last rights conducted per Hindu rituals by a Pandit. His wife and other Sabat Saroop "Sikhs" were also present for the ceremony.

There are some within their ranks that are good Sikhs loosely associated with the yogi movement, but many are simply too far gone the yoga path and cannot distinguish the two. Others are blind followers of Yogi Sahib and believe him to be above all. See: http://fateh.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/sikhism.nsf/d9c75ce4db27be328725639a0063aecc/bea12e9483d7d80c872565b7007b337e!OpenDocument

Yogi Sahib is who exactly to prescribe what is to be named contrary to hundreds of years of tradition? I bring this up as I was asked to do Ardaas in the LA Western Sikhs Gurdwara, and when I did Ardaas for the bhog of Degh and said Karah Parshad Nu Parvan Karo, I was rather bluntly told after Ardaas by a Western Sikh bibi that, "We don't say Karah Parshad. Sri Singh Sahib told us to call it Guruparshad because Karah is a vessel in which animal sacrifices are done". I found this rather strange. The followers of Yogi Sahib will vehmently push Yogi Sahib's declarations forward as true Sikhi. Contrary to what you may percieve visually, the majority of them are not Amritdhari. I learned this when the Gurdwara had just conducted an Amrit Sanchar and they requested all the Amritdhari Sikhs (not just the new ones) to get together for a photo. It was a small percent of them. I bring this up as many who are not Amritdhari ARE in full Sikhi sraoop, but carrying out more Yogic activities than Sikh activities and represent the Sikh faith, even though that may not be their primary focus.

What effect he had on a former Sikh:

http://www.sikhnn.com/headlines/2689/american-who-lived-bhindranwale?page=5 - the whole article is interesting, but this focuses on what is relevant to Yogi Sahib.

You can read the rather sad tale here:

http://www.gurmukhyoga.com/sikhism_and_tantric_yoga.pdf

I recognize that there are some Gursikhs in the West that have come from this movement, but understand that the very roots are tainted from Yogi Sahib and more and more of the manmat that takes place in their ranks is being exposed after his death. I don't want to engage in that discussion here, but Sikhs at large need to be very aware of this group and understand that there are many things going on contrary to Gurmat. They are relatively insular and rather proud of their ways and typically do not accept any non Western Sikh to criticize their way of life. I wish them the best and hope their return to Sikhi in a more pure form rather than the Yoga-religion hybrid with questionable practices.

[JUSTAJATT]

ain't those gora kirtanees >>""The Chardikala Jatha"" from same origins ???

I think they are marvellous and a pure positive

[luckysingh99]

you want positives

1. they make dastars visible and more commonplace

2. they break cultural expectations i.e. sikhs are only indians

3. They have translated Guru ji's bani to spanish (quality of translation I'm not sure of maybe someone can elaborate)

4. They know how to tie a dastar properly and when they keep kesh they do it fully not trimmed beards etc like some desi guys

5. There is a high proportion who try to learn and perform kirtan comparitively to average sikh population

6. More likely to immerse fully into Sikhi if gets proper exposure

7. Like to promote themselves and the sikh lifestyle

8. Laid back and not testostrone driven mostly

good points

Excellent positives and, excellent attributes to have as human beings I'm sure you'll agree.

The thing about it is, virtually all of them are extremely happy, content,positive, fit and healthy and immersed in Bani.....the embodiment of chardi kala sikhs. Surely we have much to learn from them ?....

Of course,....so much to learn and teach at the same time.......... Where our weaknesses have failed many of us, they have excelled and vice versa

.

ain't those gora kirtanees >>""The Chardikala Jatha"" from same origins ???

I think they are marvellous and a pure positive

excellent point !!

'Chardikala jatha' are hazoori raageez that are in my list of well respected gurbani kirtanees.

I think that their parents were from the yogi's era, but they are 2nd generation 3ho that have got fully immersed into true sikhi.

[kharkusingh1996]

Yogi Bhajan is a no no so are his followers in the West. They will be dealt with in the future.

[Akalifauj]

Here is a video of one of the members of Chardikala Jatha intimidating Gursant Singh for exposing the 3HO anti-Sikh practices. This guys name is Jugat Guru Singh Khalsa. He is a coward of a new breed. There is no amount of Sikhi in this jatha. There core beliefs rest with Yogi Bhajan and they use Sikhi as a tool to promote Yogi Bhajan's beliefs of Trantic Sex, Kundalini Yoga, white trantic yoga among other anti-sikhi practices. Do not be fooled by the Bana and Dummallas.

[HardeepCov]

you want positives

1. they make dastars visible and more commonplace

2. they break cultural expectations i.e. sikhs are only indians

3. They have translated Guru ji's bani to spanish (quality of translation I'm not sure of maybe someone can elaborate)

4. They know how to tie a dastar properly and when they keep kesh they do it fully not trimmed beards etc like some desi guys

5. There is a high proportion who try to learn and perform kirtan comparitively to average sikh population

6. More likely to immerse fully into Sikhi if gets proper exposure

7. Like to promote themselves and the sikh lifestyle

8. Laid back and not testostrone driven mostly

You should add

9. Don't care about caste?