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Panthic Ekta And Non Amritdharis

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Patit means someone who took Amrit and later broke Rehat. Most of the moneh Sikhs are not in that category.

veer ji

to be a sikh one has always had to follow rehit , give bheta of your all to Guru ji, have amrit (charan or Khande di pahul) receive naam... only those who were in other faiths but then followed Guru ji were known as Sehajdhari. If one has not committed oneself to Guru ji how can one say I am a sikh?

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Money are not even sikhs to begin with. Khalsa is only Amritdhari

The above poster is not making the remark all Amritdharis have reached the state of Khalsa, but are on the path of the Khalsa, which makes them apart of the Khalsa Panth. People want to make the definition of Khalsa Panth and Sikh, among other terms ambiguous to allow the confusion to continue in the Panth of who a person is. The biggest crime in religion is to not let anyone know where they stand currently and what they need to achieve. Take the example of going through school for a full year without the teacher telling you which grade you are in. This would drive a person to rejecting the whole concept of school and the person will look to something else for achieving similar means. Achievement is measured by progress, which holds true in religion and secular education. A student who believes he is already in med school will not work to achieve marks to be accepted in med school. He doesn't need too and won't have the desire to achieve what he so called already has achieved. Similarly, in Sikhi the line of who is a Sikh has been made blurry by the secular-religious fanatics to take away progress and achievement from majority of the Sikhs. They are literally robbing you of Sikhi. The med student who believes to be in med school will only come to reality when he get's kicked out of the class for not being on the list. For the med school student the reality is quick and painless. He doesn't get a practicing licence and moves on. The same can't be said for the person who has been told to be a Sikh his whole life. Because of these secular-religious fanatics this person lost the game of life and will have to suffer again through hell and the reincarnation cycle of birth and death.

Simply look at Christianity. The followers are being misled everyday of their lives, so the secular-religious fanatical leaders of this religion can keep control over the mass population and make an easy profit. It is prevalent in Islam as well. Look closer to home and its in the religion of the Hindus. Sikhi is being misused in the same way by the secular-religious fanatics. Sikhi is not about titles, but progress and achievement.

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There is a very good explanation of relationship between Khalsa and Sikh is done by Paramjeet Singh Khalsa Anandpur sahib wale.

I will find it and post it. it is in the series of sukhmani sahib khatha.

After listening to this my view of Sikh and Khalsa and I can be totally wrong on this :blush2: :

Sikh is not a bounded religion but a community religion, believes in humanity and freedom.

"Jo mein kiya, So mein paya" |

"Dosh kya dije awar jana"|

If you do nitname, keep rehat, restrain yourself, keep kesh, accordingly you will reap great spiritual and material rewards.

Sikhism gives freedom, openness, well-being and acceptance of all the humanity despite of cast, religion and intelligence as one being.

Any person Hindu\Jew\Christian can read, learn and follow SGGS ji, do the seva will attain the param-pad.

In Sikh-History many great GurSikhs are not in the fold of khalsa, but are respected lot and even have yaadgari gurudwaras in their name.

Bhai Makan Shah Lubana, Bhai Moti Mehra, Bhai Todar Mal and many more.

Any Sikh that follow Guru's learning, do simran can become BrahmGyani. But Not Khalsa

To become khalsa one has to partake Amrit and follow a conduct that can be broken if you don't follow it:

Therefore Khalsa is a bounded religion with specific code of conduct for lifestyle.

Khalsa is a commitment not only from our side but from the Guru's side as well.

"Jab lag khalsa rahe niyara, Tab lag tej diyo mein sara"

Khalsa is an Army to protect the Divine light of Sikhism. Also the Management of Gurudwaras and other sikh religios matters are the responsibilty of khalsa to manage.

Edited by intellect4divine
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There is a very good explanation of relationship between Khalsa and Sikh is done by Paramjeet Singh Khalsa Anandpur sahib wale.

I will find it and post it. it is in the series of sukhmani sahib khatha.

After listening to this my view of Sikh and Khalsa and I can be totally wrong on this :blush2: :

Sikh is not a bounded religion but a community religion, believes in humanity and freedom.

"Jo mein kiya, So mein paya" |

"Dosh kya dije awar jana"|

If you do nitname, keep rehat, restrain yourself, keep kesh, accordingly you will reap great spiritual and material rewards.

Sikhism gives freedom, openness, well-being and acceptance of all the humanity despite of cast, religion and intelligence as one being.

Any person Hindu\Jew\Christian can read, learn and follow SGGS ji, do the seva will attain the param-pad.

In Sikh-History many great GurSikhs are not in the fold of khalsa, but are respected lot and even have yaadgari gurudwaras in their name.

Bhai Makan Shah Lubana, Bhai Moti Mehra, Bhai Todar Mal and many more.

Any Sikh that follow Guru's learning, do simran can become BrahmGyani. But Not Khalsa

To become khalsa one has to partake Amrit and follow a conduct that can be broken if you don't follow it:

Therefore Khalsa is a bounded religion with specific code of conduct for lifestyle.

Khalsa is a commitment not only from our side but from the Guru's side as well.

"Jab lag khalsa rahe niyara, Tab lag tej diyo mein sara"

Khalsa is an Army to protect the Divine light of Sikhism. Also the Management of Gurudwaras and other sikh religios matters are the responsibilty of khalsa to manage.

Veer ji ,

OK the examples you gave were not Khalsa in 1699 sense , but they were all gursikhs followed rehit , read a nitnem of banis and so gave their all to Guru ji, and got charanamrit and naam ...that is why they got parampad ... without guru ji's acceptance we cannot progress

Khalsa rehit is the final code for Gursikhs, ALL Gursikhs should follow it since they have been given the title of Guru Panth in that state. Sikhs are Gursikhs otherwise whose Sikhs are they?

The Khalsa accepts Guru ji's Hukam and hukham is other religions do exist , we also accept Guru ji's jot is in every sentient being thus we accept that jot makes all one , it doesn't mean we agree with other religions or should follow any of their traditions just accept their existence.

Before Khalsa saajna, Guru ji always had covenant with his Gursikhs think Makhan Shah Lubhana and all the other sakhis where Gursikhs wishes and prayers for darshan were granted .

Edited by jkvlondon

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sarbloh granth sahib also explains as Guru khalsa at the physical and 3rd for of patshahi 10vi

if you say a collection of money to be in khalsa panth then you are mistaken ,


there is not if or but on this, khalsa panth are the only ones for meetings

4 muhe toh kya hua jivat kai hazar

also there is khalsa mahima , we are not talking about spirituality aspect here, ofcourse it has a play but only little
one has to be amritdhari for sarbat khalsa meeting ,

but if a panthic meeting is held then nirmale and other jathebandiyan are welcomed, but patit money are strict no no

Edited by savinderpalsingh

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I think khalsa being spiritual following atam updesh/abiding in inner real jot- jagad jot by sri guru gobind singh ji is as much important if not more... its the aim of every sikh dictated by our tenth guru. If one is not deep rooted in this goal or abide in this atam updesh then conditioned egoic mind kicks in..you see there is no room for complacency in sikhi.

Don't find solace in the fact you have managed to follow few code of conduct (did patt for 1.5 hrs) at the first level and thats it, anyone can do it..time to move towards higher reality than camping out in first level being all that comfortable, harping about it to monaie by playing - amritdharis holier than thou attitude. Tables can easily turn..don't think amritdharis are given automatic spiritual sachkhand express free liberation card.

Let panth sevadars who are given to this duty to ensure maryada is followed worry about it. Monaie have place in sikhi, everyone has place in sikhi. During baba sahib singh bedi, maharaj ranjit singh time which was backed up by sant khalsa baba bir singh ji nurangabad, there were monaie even hindus/muslims who worked under his administration.

We were more progressive sikh nation than western nations then, the idea is whose more fit more certain areas in expertise? whoever is fit for job gets it, yes off course there are certain conducts one has to follow..but precedence should take over who has the skills for example-

It will be quite ridicolous to deny/reject doctor help or scientist or his input- scientific study within khalsa raj just because doctor isn't amritdhari. No such radical move was made in sikh history..We are not crazy elitist group.

Sarbat khalsa must consist of atleast panj pyares who is atleast at parkosh atam gyani (who is already at nidashan stage mentioned in japji sahib) if not aparkoash bhramgyani.

Otherwise you may fall into and end up like these misguided people-

post-24251-0-42232100-1421681574_thumb.j

Edited by N30S1NGH
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then why did guru gobind singh ji said, "dont come to my darshan without kesh and shastars" ??

money have no place , its simple . they are not sikh never
who will you call sikh if they dont even have guru's mohar!!

patit's have no place until they take pahul or chula and keep kesh

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then why did guru gobind singh ji said, "dont come to my darshan without kesh and shastars" ??

money have no place , its simple . they are not sikh never

who will you call sikh if they dont even have guru's mohar!!

patit's have no place until they take pahul or chula and keep kesh

You will be attacked by the secular-religious fanatics for uttering the words of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji.

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then why did guru gobind singh ji said, "dont come to my darshan without kesh and shastars" ??

money have no place , its simple . they are not sikh never

who will you call sikh if they dont even have guru's mohar!!

patit's have no place until they take pahul or chula and keep kesh

There is relative truth and there is absolute truth. Elements of relative truth (in this case- father scolding) is mentioned to invoke discipline aspect, make dharam foundation strong its circumstantial used to address issues - bring balance in one's life.

This relative truth does not , cannot and should not apply to all, or all circumstances or should not be used to gauge all situations. Thats what crazy mullahs do in islam..we are not crazy mullahs..Guru gives us bibek use it. Look at our sikh bhagats- did any of bhagats have physical shastars with them? did bhai ghaniya ji had a shastar with them when they start sevapanthi tradition after guru's happiness/blessing/permission.

Guru maharaj had kavi court with 52 kavi/court poets..did he rejected all of them just because they didn't had shastars or may be from different spiritual traditions may be cut hair? did he kicked them out on the premise of "dont come to my darshan without kesh and shastars" ?

If you must follow relative truth as literally go ahead pictures this- "dont come to my darshan without kesh and shastars" ?

Why don't you to apply for perhadar job at the gurdwara? Considering you perceive all ten gurus, tenth guru sitting on throne near sri guru granth sahib, sri dasam guru granth..start policiing , have all same sort of check points at the darbar - selectively allow people? Please go ahead do that..let us know feedback you get from gyani at your local gurdwara or your jathedar.

Edited by N30S1NGH
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Just a quick note. When we look at the Palestinian issue, you'll find religious Muslims and secular/non-religious Muslims united in the Palestinian cause. Just take a glance at any demonstration in London. They have unity, that's the key.

Now, cast your eyes to the Khalistan issue or other panthic issues, non-Amritdhari's (the vast majority of Sikhs) are usually invisible. Is this a good thing? This is despite, I may add, that an overwhelmingly strong support for Khalistan from the non-Amritdhari Sikhs. This is despite the fact that there is a wealth of talent, lawyers, etc who could do a better job than the overweight uncle-ji's but are prevented from coming forward.

The same is true for Jews and Israel. Israel was established on the backs of approximately 7% ultra-orthodox Jews - yes, only 7%. The other 93% were NOT made to feel sub-human or worthless. Without them, there probably would be no Israel today. Look at the Knesset, the Israeli parliament. It's hardly saturated with Hasidic Jews. But, they have unity.

Sikhs are a tiny community as it is. We need to stick together.

Edited by DailyMail
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