Critical State Of Sikhs In North Punjab- Changing Faiths

[N30S1NGH]

Indians including Sikhs in punjab (not limited to indian but asian people in general) have some what issue of self loathing or punjabi saying- ghar ki murgi dal barabar. They would reject their own enrich history given by their own sikh parcharik but go outward toward western euro centric people and see what they have to say- seek their approval or opnion..This is probably due to british influence over mental psyche since british umpire ruled them for centuries.

So what we need to do strategize it, use that at our advantage, we need send anglo "white" amritdhari tyar bar singh (perfabable ex christian convert) who can speak punjabi go to punjab do parchar. If people don't want 3ho to take this intiative (even though they are already doing it in large numbers under amritdhari gursikh from udasi/nirmala/nihang background guidance), if people don't want 3ho going in punjab do parchar its fine, you can get white amritdhari AKJ, Taksal, Nihang so on and forth (I may have serious idealogical differences with AKJ but when it comes to sikh quantity numbers i am with their parchar and intiatives/seva etc) train them as missionaries under guidance of senior mahapursh/gursikhs and send them to back home to get real results.

It just unfortunate it has to be that way but thats the mindset of our people so instead of mourning about it we can use that as our advantage. Trust me, it will bring some awesome results.

I have experimented similiar things in real life, where our people didn't want to read punjabi translations by punjabi take the material as as pinch of salt by punjabi people but as soon some gora-white centric figure says the same thing in punjabi or english all of sudden that pinch of salt perception becomes pearl of diamond.

[jkvlondon]

It's not sexist, it's just the culture they grew-up in, nor is this related to Sikhi it's Punjabi Culture, also back then there was Sexism but the women were prepared to be revolutionary women, such gems are rare today, which is why many women outside of India have been doing most of the fighting for equality in India for both sexes. Let's look at it this way, say you have been raised your whole life in a cult, to you it's normal, how do you get out, someone from a different perspective goes in and helps you. You resist for a while and refuse everything they say until you analyze then you take a stand for freedom. That's only an example.

maybe you need a refresher , Guru Amar Das ji didn't just set up Manji system he also set up piri system which was mainly manned by female parchaariks in the manner I'ddescribed , I think they were much more controlling of females then in Punjab.To be a sikh is to thumb your nose at manmatt conventions anyhow , so yes One has to be revolutionary in thought and deed to succeed.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

maybe you need a refresher , Guru Amar Das ji didn't just set up Manji system he also set up piri system which was mainly manned by female parchaariks in the manner I'ddescribed , I think they were much more controlling of females then in Punjab.To be a sikh is to thumb your nose at manmatt conventions anyhow , so yes One has to be revolutionary in thought and deed to succeed.

The Manji system is long gone, would you accept Massands? NO! Live in the present and not the past, Guru Sahib ended the system because it had been corrupted!

[jkvlondon]

The Manji system is long gone, would you accept Massands? NO! Live in the present and not the past, Guru Sahib ended the system because it had been corrupted!

piri system was not masand driven so why did it fall out of use it was purely for the spreading of bani and sikhi

[hsingh68]

It doesn't matter if people change religions what matters is union with God. They may get more support from other religions.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

It doesn't matter if people change religions what matters is union with God. They may get more support from other religions.

I understand why you think like that, but if you're Sikh you shouldn't change your religion, (if non-Sikh doesn't matter what you do,)

"ਜੇ ਕੋ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਵੇਮੁਖੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਵੈ ॥

Jae Ko Gur Thae Vaemukh Hovai Bin Sathigur Mukath N Paavai ||

जे को गुर ते वेमुखु होवै बिनु सतिगुर मुकति न पावै ॥

One who turns away from the Guru, and becomes baymukh - without the True Guru, he shall not find liberation.

ਪਾਵੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਰ ਥੈ ਕੋਈ ਪੁਛਹੁ ਬਿਬੇਕੀਆ ਜਾਏ ॥

Paavai Mukath N Hor Thhai Koee Pushhahu Bibaekeeaa Jaaeae ||

पावै मुकति न होर थै कोई पुछहु बिबेकीआ जाए ॥

He shall NOT find liberation ANYWHERE else either; go and ask the wise ones about this.

ਅਨੇਕ ਜੂਨੀ ਭਰਮਿ ਆਵੈ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਏ ॥

Anaek Joonee Bharam Aavai Vin Sathigur Mukath N Paaeae ||

अनेक जूनी भरमि आवै विणु सतिगुर मुकति न पाए ॥

He shall wander through countless incarnations; WITHOUT the True Guru, he shall NOT find liberation.

ਫਿਰਿ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਪਾਏ ਲਾਗਿ ਚਰਣੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਣਾਏ ॥

Fir Mukath Paaeae Laag Charanee Sathiguroo Sabadh Sunaaeae ||

फिरि मुकति पाए लागि चरणी सतिगुरू सबदु सुणाए ॥

But liberation is attained, when one is attached to the feet of the True Guru, chanting the Word of the Shabad.

ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਏ ॥੨੨॥

Kehai Naanak Veechaar Dhaekhahu Vin Sathigur Mukath N Paaeae ||22||

कहै नानकु वीचारि देखहु विणु सतिगुर मुकति न पाए ॥२२॥

Says Nanak, contemplate this and see, that without the True Guru, there is NO liberation. ||22||" Anand Sahib!

I highlighted the important stuff that you should focus on. Also please don't lie to your non-Sikh friends either and tell them they can have Mukti following someone else. You would be lying,

"ਕ੝ਫਰ ਗੋਅ ਕ੝ਫਰਾਣੈ ਪਇਆ ਦਝਸੀ ॥ ਸਭ ਦ੝ਨੀਆ ਸ੝ਬਹਾਨ੝ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਈਝ ॥ ਸਿਝੈ ਦਰਿ ਦੀਵਾਨਿ ਆਪ੝ ਗਵਾਈਝ ॥੯॥

Kufar go▫a kufrĝṇai pa▫i▫ĝ ḝajẖsī. Sabẖ ḝunī▫ĝ sub▫hĝn sacẖ samĝ▫ī▫ai. Sijẖai ḝar ḝīvĝn ĝp gavĝ▫ī▫ai.(9)

One who speaks lies shall fall into hell and burn.

In all the world, the most blessed and sanctified are those who remain absorbed in Truth. One who eliminates selfishness and conceit is redeemed in the Court of the Lord.(9)" Ang 142

[hsingh68]

I understand why you think like that, but if you're Sikh you shouldn't change your religion, (if non-Sikh doesn't matter what you do,)

"ਜੇ ਕੋ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਵੇਮੁਖੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਵੈ ॥

Jae Ko Gur Thae Vaemukh Hovai Bin Sathigur Mukath N Paavai ||

जे को गुर ते वेमुखु होवै बिनु सतिगुर मुकति न पावै ॥

One who turns away from the Guru, and becomes baymukh - without the True Guru, he shall not find liberation.

ਪਾਵੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਰ ਥੈ ਕੋਈ ਪੁਛਹੁ ਬਿਬੇਕੀਆ ਜਾਏ ॥

Paavai Mukath N Hor Thhai Koee Pushhahu Bibaekeeaa Jaaeae ||

पावै मुकति न होर थै कोई पुछहु बिबेकीआ जाए ॥

He shall NOT find liberation ANYWHERE else either; go and ask the wise ones about this.

ਅਨੇਕ ਜੂਨੀ ਭਰਮਿ ਆਵੈ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਏ ॥

Anaek Joonee Bharam Aavai Vin Sathigur Mukath N Paaeae ||

अनेक जूनी भरमि आवै विणु सतिगुर मुकति न पाए ॥

He shall wander through countless incarnations; WITHOUT the True Guru, he shall NOT find liberation.

ਫਿਰਿ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਪਾਏ ਲਾਗਿ ਚਰਣੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਣਾਏ ॥

Fir Mukath Paaeae Laag Charanee Sathiguroo Sabadh Sunaaeae ||

फिरि मुकति पाए लागि चरणी सतिगुरू सबदु सुणाए ॥

But liberation is attained, when one is attached to the feet of the True Guru, chanting the Word of the Shabad.

ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਏ ॥੨੨॥

Kehai Naanak Veechaar Dhaekhahu Vin Sathigur Mukath N Paaeae ||22||

कहै नानकु वीचारि देखहु विणु सतिगुर मुकति न पाए ॥२२॥

Says Nanak, contemplate this and see, that without the True Guru, there is NO liberation. ||22||" Anand Sahib!

I highlighted the important stuff that you should focus on. Also please don't lie to your non-Sikh friends either and tell them they can have Mukti following someone else. You would be lying,

"ਕ੝ਫਰ ਗੋਅ ਕ੝ਫਰਾਣੈ ਪਇਆ ਦਝਸੀ ॥ ਸਭ ਦ੝ਨੀਆ ਸ੝ਬਹਾਨ੝ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਈਝ ॥ ਸਿਝੈ ਦਰਿ ਦੀਵਾਨਿ ਆਪ੝ ਗਵਾਈਝ ॥੯॥

Kufar go▫a kufrĝṇai pa▫i▫ĝ ḝajẖsī. Sabẖ ḝunī▫ĝ sub▫hĝn sacẖ samĝ▫ī▫ai. Sijẖai ḝar ḝīvĝn ĝp gavĝ▫ī▫ai.(9)

One who speaks lies shall fall into hell and burn.

In all the world, the most blessed and sanctified are those who remain absorbed in Truth. One who eliminates selfishness and conceit is redeemed in the Court of the Lord.(9)" Ang 142

Depends on ur definition of true guru. Sikhs say its the sggs, christians say its jesus, hindus say its vishnu/krishna etc.

[jkvlondon]

Depends on ur definition of true guru. Sikhs say its the sggs, christians say its jesus, hindus say its vishnu/krishna etc.

Hindus how can they claim guru is krishna etc how would they get initiated as chela? strange thing to generalise . Ok Christians get baptised so they can but it is mostly done at an age when they are unaware . it can only be completed by a confirmation ceremony later in life.

[hsingh68]

Hari krishna gurmantar is passed down through pandits/gurus. So everyone has their guru someway or another.

[Jonny101]

Depends on ur definition of true guru. Sikhs say its the sggs, christians say its jesus, hindus say its vishnu/krishna etc.

Don't twist the meaning of Gurbani. In context of Gurbani it is Sikh Gurus NOT reference to Jesus, Hindus Gods or anyone else