British Army Examines Plans To Create A Sikh Regiment

[DiscoverSikhism]

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ, ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਿਹ

British Army examines plans to create a Sikh regiment

Armed Forces minister Mark Francois says unit would inherit many of the 'proud traditions of Sikh regiments' from the Army's past

Jatenderpal Singh Bhullar (centre), pictured at Buckingham Palace, is the first Guardsman to wear a turban with ceremonial dress Photo: Crown Copyright

The head of the British Army is looking at proposals to recreate a Sikh regiment, a minister has said.

The Chief of the General Staff is examining the feasibility of a Sikh unit, including the possibility of a reserve company, and it “may well have merit”, Mark Francois told the Commons.

A new unit would inherit many of the “proud traditions of Sikh regiments” from the Army’s past, he said.

Thousands of Sikh soldiers served in the British Army in the 19th century and in the First and Second World Wars, and 10 Victoria Crosses have been won by soldiers serving in Sikh regiments.

Reviving a Sikh unit has been suggested several times in the past. One recent attempt was abandoned in 2007 by the Ministry of Defence amid fears that the move would be branded racist.

Speaking during defence questions in the Commons, Conservative former defence minister Sir Nicholas Soames urged ministers to "do away with political correctness" and raise a Sikh regiment.

He told Mr Francois: "You will be aware of the extraordinary gallant and distinguished service by Sikhs to this country down the generations.

"Would you not agree with me that it's high time to do away with the political correctness which infects some of this thinking and actually raise a Sikh regiment to serve in the country and make up a very serious gap in our Armed Forces?"

Mr Francois, minister for the Armed Forces, replied: "With regard to your specific suggestion, can I say that you are one of a number of Members of Parliament who have raised this suggestion with me recently.

"We have passed this possibility on to the chief of the general staff (CGS), who is now looking at this issue and we are awaiting CGS's comments back.

"But the idea may well have merit."

^{Soldiers from 3 Regiment Army Air Corps on parade in Aldeburgh in Suffolk (Crown copyright)}

Conservative Rory Stewart, chairman of the Defence Select Committee, suggested a Sikh company within the reserves could be explored "as a starting point".

He added: "There seems to be much more possibility within the reserves to begin what seems like an excellent idea."

Mr Francois replied: "I said earlier the idea may have merit but we've looked at one specific option, or are looking, at the possibility of a reserve company – not least one which would inherit many of the proud traditions of Sikh regiments going back through many years in the British Army.

^{Troops from 1st Battalion Royal Regiment of Scotland marching at Dreghorn Barracks (Crown copyright)}

"[Defence Minister Julian Brazier} is leading on that particular aspect and he too remains in contact with CGS on this matter."

In 2007, the MoD scrapped a similar plan after the Commission for Racial Equality advised it could be seen as divisive and amounted to "segregation".

The latest manning figures show the Armed Forces have around 160 Sikhs in their ranks, including 130 in the Army. Last year an official British Armed Forces Sikh Association was formed.

Lord Singh, director of the Network of Sikh Organisations, said a Sikh unit was something “that would be nice if it happened”.

He warned it had been suggested many times and had always proved difficult.

He said: “There aren’t that many Sikhs in the Army. A regiment needs a bit more. There needs to be some enticement to go, but with all the defence cuts, the Army may not look that tempting.”

The recent disclosure that the British military had advised Indira Gandhi over her 1984 attack on Sikh separatists barricaded in Amritsar's Golden Temple, may have led to some bad feeling among Sikhs in Britain, though he suggested this would pass with time.

He said: “There are some major difficulties. It’s something that would be nice if it happened.”

By Ben Farmer, Telegraph

[singh598]

We Enlist whilst they examine how to attack darbar sahib

Biggest hypocrites and bigots are those who enlist for the British whilst they destroy your very existence

Don't fall for the trap Anglo Sikh love is a gold digg for the Brits

Don't fall for the trap Anglo Sikh love is a gold digg for the Brits

[DailyMail]

Fantastic news.

Unfortunately, this idea was disbanded after Sir Trevor Phillips, the then head of the CRE (Commission for Racial Equality) suggested it may lead to accusations of racism. He was wrong.

It is interesting and ironic to note that it is the former Conservative Defence Minister Sir Nicholas Soames who is urging his fellow ministers and the MoD to raise a Sikh Regiment. It was his grandfather, Sir Winston Churchill, who had heaped lavish praise upon the martial skills of the Sikhs 65 years ago.

Listening to the BBC Asian Network debate with Nihal, I was disappointed to hear that most of the Sikhs including the normally articulate Jagraj Singh come up stuck against the diatribe that was dished out by those opposing such a regiment. Furthermore, Nihal and other caller's in to the show couldn't quite grasp the fact that whilst Sikhs may have fewer contributors to the world wars compared to muslim's and hindu's, they were over-represented due to their small numbers in the population as a whole. As a percentage or fraction of the population as a whole, Sikhs were far over represented.

The fact is, regiments will demand uniformity. Attaching isolated Sikhs in various companies or regiments means lack of uniformity. A separate Sikh regiment will require all Sikhs to wear a turban and therefore look the same. It's part of the uniform and uniforms help instil discipline and order. This was not mentioned. I wish I could have called in but I couldn't get through and thereafter I was busy.

With us Sikhs its about quality not quantity.

I should however, also mention, that it is Paul Uppal MP and Sir Soames MP - two conservative politicians who are urging the MoD. Is this the tories trying to appease the Sikhs over the 1984 debacle I wonder?

[ASKhalsa1]

I wish we Sikhs would stop hanging onto the coat tails of our forebears, and treating their achievements as if they are our own.

We Sikhs living today are not a warrior people. Our grandparents may have been, but we aren't. Most of us have become too affluent, we are more eager to become doctors and engineers and make money than to become soldiers. Given this state of affairs, why on Earth would we need a Sikh regiment? If we were still a martial people there might be a precedent for it, but we aren't. Our ancestors lived and breathed war, it was all they knew. That's why they became soldiers. But exactly how many British Sikhs are currently serving in the army? Not a very high proportion I'd expect.

I find it laughable when some self-proclaimed kharku Singh insists he will run down to India with an AK47 at the next sign of trouble, when all the while his belly is hanging over his kamarkassa and he loses breath going up a flight of stairs. We're turning into a joke.

Then again, maybe the creation of a regiment will give Sikhs the motivation to become worthy of their martial heritage, and who knows, perhaps create one which our descendants will look back on with pride.

I'm still not sure what to make of this.

[N30S1NGH]

Without Guru- Guru's shabad, Gur shabad gyan- sikh is dead as dead fish outside water. Sikh relationship to Guru(ultimately shabad, shabad gian-pure inner consciouness) as fish is to water.

It's alive, live Gur-shabad, Gur-Shabad Gyan infused into sikh consciouness(surti) gives sikh strength not sikh empty rhetoric anakh or fake egoic conditioned mind.

I am so tired of self proclaimed historians turning sikhs into this fake garab gajini badassh tribe of people, making us look like typical warrior based on our cultural heritage than spiritual heritage..totally ignoring source of strength...even stories of our past shaheeds our historians didn't do good job providing how past shaheeds were able to endure so much torture in hands of oppressive regimes..They turned great story of shaheeds into excessive personality worship of outer sikh image etc.

This fake sense of security ,fake false sense of false image on false premises or pretences- are costing us big time as our young generations are failed to deliver actual sikh character defined by gurbani, making youngsters quite egoistical, arrogant, live in past glorious history- la la land, entitled-lazy, quite self righteous mixed with ego/pride. They wear honorable bana as badge of honor yet failed to deliver in character as askhalsa pointed out.

Our ancestors-anglo sikh war, baba jwala singh regiment had gurbani on their lips, had gurbani shallow their egoic conditioned mind, had gurbani- alive bir ras jungi shabad infused into consciousness gave them energy of monumental proportions. They also saw through clear pure perception of intuitive gur-shabad consciousness as opposed to their egoic conditioned mind.

We need to realize there is a difference between genuine pride and gajini type of false pride/ego.

Guru Maharaj has said, ਗਰਬ ਗੰਜਨ ਦੁਸਟ ਭੰਜਨ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਦਾਇਕ ਕਾਮ || Thou art the Destroyer of ego, the vanquisher of tyrants and performer of works leading to salvation.

Lets stay away from gajnini type of false pride, really realize essence source of strength and energy rather than attaching our selves with falsehood- tribe, lineage, caste etc.

Guru Maharaj has set very high standards for sikh (Sant-Sipahi) as here in sri dasam bani he cautions us not to be turned into typical badassh type warrior who forgets its source..Here all the previous badassh types warriors came and went..what makes us think sikhs proud of gajini type of false pride have any chance?. Wake up recognize the source of all strength and you cannot go wrong.

ਜੋਗੀ ਜਤੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਚਾਰੀ ਬਡੇ ਬਡੇ ਛਤ੍ਰਧਾਰੀ ਛਤ੍ਰ ਹੀ ਕੀ ਛਾਇਆ ਕਈ ਕੋਸ ਲੌ ਚਲਤ ਹੈਂ ॥

जोगी जती ब्रहमचारी बडे बडे छत्रधारी छत्र ही की छाइआ कई कोस लौ चलत हैं ॥

The Yougis, celibates and students observing celibacy, many great sovereigns, who walk several miles under the shade of canopy.

ਬਡੇ ਬਡੇ ਰਾਜਨ ਕੇ ਦਾਬਿਤ ਫਿਰਤਿ ਦੇਸ ਬਡੇ ਬਡੇ ਰਾਜਨ ਕੇ ਦ੍ਰਪ ਕੋ ਦਲਤ ਹੈਂ ॥

बडे बडे राजन के दाबित फिरति देस बडे बडे राजन के द्रप को दलत हैं ॥

Who conquer the countries of many great kings and bruise their ego.

ਮਾਨ ਸੇ ਮਹੀਪ ਔ ਦਿਲੀਪ ਕੈਸੇ ਛਤ੍ਰਧਾਰੀ ਬਡੋ ਅਭਿਮਾਨ ਭੁਜ ਦੰਡ ਕੋ ਕਰਤ ਹੈਂ ॥

मान से महीप औ दिलीप कैसे छत्रधारी बडो अभिमान भुज दंड को करत हैं ॥

The Sovereign like Mandhata and the Canopied Sovereign like Dalip, who were proud of their mightly forces.

ਦਾਰਾ ਸੇ ਦਿਲੀਸਰ ਦੁ੍ਰਜੋਧਨ ਸੇ ਮਾਨਧਾਰੀ ਭੋਗ ਭੋਗ ਭੂਮਿ ਅੰਤ ਭੂਮਿ ਮੈ ਮਿਲਤ ਹੈਂ ॥੮॥੭੮॥

दारा से दिलीसर दु्रजोधन से मानधारी भोग भोग भूमि अंत भूमि मै मिलत हैं ॥८॥७८॥

The emperor like Darius and the great egoist like Duryodhana, after enjoying the earthly pleasures, finally merged in the earth.8.78.

[StarStriker]

Fantastic news.

Unfortunately, this idea was disbanded after Sir Trevor Phillips, the then head of the CRE (Commission for Racial Equality) suggested it may lead to accusations of racism. He was wrong.

It is interesting and ironic to note that it is the former Conservative Defence Minister Sir Nicholas Soames who is urging his fellow ministers and the MoD to raise a Sikh Regiment. It was his grandfather, Sir Winston Churchill, who had heaped lavish praise upon the martial skills of the Sikhs 65 years ago.

Listening to the BBC Asian Network debate with Nihal, I was disappointed to hear that most of the Sikhs including the normally articulate Jagraj Singh come up stuck against the diatribe that was dished out by those opposing such a regiment. Furthermore, Nihal and other caller's in to the show couldn't quite grasp the fact that whilst Sikhs may have fewer contributors to the world wars compared to muslim's and hindu's, they were over-represented due to their small numbers in the population as a whole. As a percentage or fraction of the population as a whole, Sikhs were far over represented

Bro did u hear that h@rami kutthha, vijay, frm bham, a typical typical sikh-hating panjabi hindu spouting his crap? It was disgraceful, i sent a text into the show, nice n early, typically/mysteriously it never got read out! He kept calling sikhs traitors, coz we did not support the crappy mutiny in 1857. Im gettin sick n tired of this rubbish now, sweardown! I wrote a message to the show, stating, how sikhs were NOT the only 1s who destroyed the mutiny. We did so, along with panjabi muslims, pathans, gurkhas and the maharaja of kashmir, YET, sikhs r always singled out by these scumbag gangus. Wat that fool vijay fails to realise is, those who mutinied against the brits, were all originally part of the british east india army in the 1st place, so where was their loyalty then? Only till pig/beef was used by brits, was their last straw.

On this subject tho, sikhs would b idiots to join the brit army, jus stupid cannon fodder for illegal brit wars. As mentioned, this myth that sikhs have an illustrious history wit brit army is nonsense. They stole out empire, stole our jewels, deleted many things, such as shastar/raag vidya frm history, tried to auction off harmandir sahib, massacred nihangs, jallianwala bagh, put mahants in gurdwaras, split our homeland n gave advice to indira. Wheres this gud relationship? Its more a relationship of a step dad n a beaten kid. Im shocked that this crap idea has resurfaced, probably a ploy to get last min votes b4 elections.

[Akalifauj]

Do not deprive yourself or another Sikh of learning modern warfare and learning modern weapons. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji did not send the nirmala Sikhs to learn the vedant scriptures to learn spiritual wisdom. They were sent to gain what their scriptures taught and teach it to the Sikhs. This allowed Sikhs to equip themselves with more tools. The same can be done by joining armies of today who can teach you modern warfare with modern weapons. Bring this knowledge back into the Khalsa Panth and it can be used to defend the oppressed.

[JagsawSingh]

Fantastic news.

Unfortunately, this idea was disbanded after Sir Trevor Phillips, the then head of the CRE (Commission for Racial Equality) suggested it may lead to accusations of racism.

Yes but Trevor Phillips got involved after complaints by Hindus and the Indian High Commission in London.

This is why I am shocked and dissapointed by most of the comments on this thread. Many of you don't seem to realise this but you're playing right into the hands of the Indian government. Don't you see that it was them, last time, that were running around like headless chickens desperately trying to put a stop to this because they feared it would give Sikhs legitamacy in their assertion of being seperate from India and Hindus in general. It was them that put a stop to it last time but this time, judging by the comments here, we Sikhs are determined to shaft ourselves on their behalf.

Not only would this give our youth the military training they need but also advance our claim of being a race seperate from India.

Remember also, that in the Sikh Regiments of the British Army in years gone by, the Army instantly court-marshalled and dismissed any Sikh that EVER EVER cut a single hair of his beard or head. Keen to install the Khalsa spirit the British insisted the Sikh soldier was a real Amritdhari Sikh. In contrast, the current Sikh Regiment of the Indian Army has an official policy that sas the soldier must have a trimmed beard, i.e can NOT be an amritdhari. Remember that before you oppose it and remember who is cheering on your opposition.

[Raaj.Karega.Khalsa]

...In contrast, the current Sikh Regiment of the Indian Army has an official policy that sas the soldier must have a trimmed beard, i.e can NOT be an amritdhari. Remember that before you oppose it and remember who is cheering on your opposition.

Could I please ask what the source of the above quoted statement is?

[ASKhalsa1]

Could I please ask what the source of the above quoted statement is?

There is no source for it because it is untrue.

Sikhs are required to tie their beards or make them presentable, not trim them.

I'm no fan of the failed Indian experiment, but the baseless demonisation of India by some of our brothers and sisters is quite tiresome. Their record is bad enough, we needn't embellish it with lies.