Punj Pyare Court Idea Possible For The Panth?

[kharkusingh1996]

Throughout the years there has been problems here and there in our Panth ranging from different areas that affect the Panth as a whole. The Punj Pyare court system isn't a new brought up idea but why don't Sikh gurdwaras/councils/organizations take it into consideration? I have heard so many times Sikhs talking about it but don't push it first in their agenda. We really need to push for a punj pyare to govern gurdwaras in a country. This has to be one of the top ideas all Sikhs should be pushing forward in the coming years. The benefit of having a punj pyare system will solve many issues that are revolving in our Panth. It has to happen and it will help stabilize the Panth.

Questions to ask ourselves:

1) Can different groups AKJ, Taksali, Nihungs.. come to together and make an agreement to set up the punj pyare regardless of differences?

2) Who will be against this decision that the Panth will have trouble with(gw committees, jathas?)

[kamc]

Interesting topic, i've heard a lot of people talk about this over the years but the main issue i have is that as human beings we are all fallible, we are all flawed, taking amrit doesn't make us perfect it just put's us on a path on which we hope by the end of it we have learnt enough to be better human beings, so, knowing that, can we assume the Panj Pyare in a particular Gurdwara will be perfect, also, the Gurdwara system at the moment (UK) is a mess and a hotbed of corruption, it's all about power and who sits on the hot set, committees and pardan's at Gurdwara's see to have forgotten who actually sits on the main set, long story short, it's a lovely idea in theory but unfortunately we haven't grown up enough yet to put it into practice.

[deathfearsKHALSA]

it can be the best system on whole earth, if only punj pyaras are real Khalsa(perfect defination ones).& there's no doubt.

[intrigued]

I think the best way to choose the panj piare would be by a hukamnama. Sikhs shouldn't be actively seeking to become a panj piare.

 

Another thing to wonder, how long should any one person be in the panj piare?

[Suchi]

On 3/2/2015 at 10:03 AM, kamc said:

Interesting topic, i've heard a lot of people talk about this over the years but the main issue i have is that as human beings we are all fallible, we are all flawed, taking amrit doesn't make us perfect it just put's us on a path on which we hope by the end of it we have learnt enough to be better human beings, so, knowing that, can we assume the Panj Pyare in a particular Gurdwara will be perfect, also, the Gurdwara system at the moment (UK) is a mess and a hotbed of corruption, it's all about power and who sits on the hot set, committees and pardan's at Gurdwara's see to have forgotten who actually sits on the main set, long story short, it's a lovely idea in theory but unfortunately we haven't grown up enough yet to put it into practice.

If you wish to consider a court system, there is already a common law system within England and Wales and fits into UK law. Perhaps one could be set up on that basis.

There is a website that provides more information on this:

https://www.commonlawcourt.com/

A court can be set up by any commoner based on certain rules.  As many people (including me) have found considerable corruption within the UK court system, this might be an idea to claw back our rights.

It could even be considered without involving the Panj Pyare as it requires a minimum number to be considered valid. 

 

[NaamTiharoJoJape]

On 4/7/2021 at 6:32 PM, intrigued said:

I think the best way to choose the panj piare would be by a hukamnama. Sikhs shouldn't be actively seeking to become a panj piare.

 

Another thing to wonder, how long should any one person be in the panj piare?

as long as no major panthic figure lays ungli on them lol 

implausible at current state of affairs 

we can have three sets

shrimoni akali panth panj pyare of sikh sarbat khalsa along with 5 mukte and 25 mahakaali sabha singhs

a mukhi of a really major dal (budha dal, taksal, akj, nkj, all the new ones lol) arent allowed to be in panj pyare or panj mukte but can recommend candidates representing their organization before the mahakaali sabha of 25 

panj pyare can have more politically involved sikhs, meanwhile panj mukte be more panthic type folks like late bhai jugraj singh 

one or two seat of panj mukte reconsidered every 2-4 years (some seats for 3, some for 4, one for 2)...restriction of five terms once unanimously approved by akal thakt panch (individuals can switch across seats if they are not sure if they want to serve as long as they did before or maybe serve longer than before)

two of panj pyare for life till removed of the privelege by 17 or more of mahakaal/giani (25 scholars, veterans, leaders, educator/parchariks, sewadars, raagis, etc.) (i dont know how mahakaal assembly members are selected but perhaps a combination unanimously approved by 40 legislators mentioned below, they can be for life, replacement at the recommendation a panj mukta approved (not more than one other can oppose) by 31 or more legislator/19 or more mahakaali singh, or unanimously by akal thakt panch) (22 or more must agree on these panj pyara out of the 25 mahakaali assembly members) 

other three chosen every 4-5 years by panj mukte 

panj mukte advise panj pyare in joint session under a mukh diwan and meet diwan(chief minister of joint panj pyare/panj mukte session, secretariat minister of mahakaal assembly) who try to set up meetings and agenda ;mukh diwan chosen by small body of 40 legislators (need 36 or more to become) representing different parts of world and india and punjab and sampardiye that can be removed only if other 28 or more demand so 

52 sewadars of sarbat khalsa enforce gurmattas under supervision of meet diwan

third set of panch is akal thakt panj pyare (jathedari of akal thakt can be abolished) of which four must be of most senior ten mahakaali singhs (the 25) approved in panj mukte and only one can be young if approved by same margin meet diwan is (16 or more of mahakal sabha or 33 of legislators in addition to panj mukte), this is like the jurisdiction that can remove a panj pyara anytime and de-ratify a gurmatta anytime 

if any of these folks are held by a 22 or more/40 majority of legislators or 10 or more of mahakaal assembly, there would be a testimony before joint session panj pyare and panj mukte to have majority of panj mukte acknowledge the wrongdoing and the panj pyare make a unanimous decsion in which the absence of one pyara's approval the mukh diwan may make up for it

replaces sgpc

gursikhs like baba nihal singh harianbela, giani pinderpal singh, that are admired or at least tolerated by most of panth are good candidates for panj mukte or panj pyara positions until we harvest a youth full of potential 

a panj pyare can never be a panj mukta, a panj mukta can never be a panj pyare after retiring from former position

mukh diwaan cannot be a former panj pyare

akal thakt panj pyare cannot be former mukh diwan, and after retiring cannot serve panj pyara

sarbat khalsa takes oath of restricting political activism to a certain region (perhaps pakistan punjab, punjab, haryana and maybe j&k, himachal, rajasthan) and beyond this region it confines itself to humanitarian relief, activism for sikh rights, gurudwara management, gurmatta/maryada enforcement)

a politican isnt allowed from a another party to serve any position in this sarbat khalsa system but sarbat khalsa can recommend or back a panthic sikh up for a seat in the prescribed region (they need the recommendation of either two mahakaal assembly members, four/40 legislators, or six of the 52 sewadars, and then go through a comprehensive background check by panj mukte to go onto panj pyare to be unanimously ratified) (the meet or mukh diwan can each excuse one individual from panj mukte review per year to go straight to panj pyare; or the recommendation by 10 or more mahakaali singhs; and if that individual is removed by an akal thakt panch decision in any case the diwan or meet diwan must appear for peshi and be reevaluated for their position by joint session of panj mukte and panj pyare), mukh diwan can also make up for the need of one more panj pyara for approval if the other four agree on the candidate 

constitution (prescribing values of economic and relgiious freedoms, and promoting a federalist republican structure in india that candidates backed by sarbat khalsa must adhere to), code of honour (for scholars,intellectuals,officials), rehat maryada (mostly adopted from prior one)

sikh intellectual council of free thought, free space for all sorts of intellectuals to discuss ideas, and a ultimate sikh reference library for all; presided by council of five elders (one chief elder) selected by mahakaali council that maintains order and intellectual integrity amongst this diaspora where intellectuals, scientists, theologicians, can freely correspond with each other and release findings (I wish bhai vir singh ji or professor puran singh ji were alive lol)

sikh education front, trying to spread parchar in world, and impart worldy knowledge of stem onto youth in the north indian region described above (as our youth is behind rest of india) 

revised anandpur da matta, reinforcing punjab's demand for autonomy, riparian rights, and additional territory (that we can get with help of our sikh education front working to spread sikhi in those areas and literate the poor with punjabi and other wordly stem sciences)

we will harvest intellectuals, sikhs, and a stronger panth

we would also need a team of lawyers to fight the cases in high court and supreme court for the matters discussed in above revision of anandpur matta, and maybe we can allign ourselves with whatever the punjab govt is at time in such legal battles against center for betterment of punjab

i think i got carried away, maybe panj pyare system is better for individual gurudwaras lol

although we can't have a autocracy with all the division in the panth either like we used to under diwan darbara singh ji, nawab kapur singh ji, sardar jassa singh ahluwalia

 

[NaamTiharoJoJape]

anyone wants to make revisions and amendments to the system i randomly made 

[GurjantGnostic]

1 hour ago, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

anyone wants to make revisions and amendments to the system i randomly made 

I need to reread it first. Awesome post. 

[NaamTiharoJoJape]

2 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

I need to reread it first. Awesome post. 

 yeah, but I realize from a third to two fourths of the panth will never agree to it because we would need to retract from khalistani demands (since we would need to work within the republic of india, and go back to the akali demands of an federalized government from a centralized one we've had for three quarters of a century now without any efficiency in bereaucracy) 

take two steps back to make a leap 

I recommend you read the declaration of independence and constitution of khalistan ratified by the panj pyare in 1986 sarbat khalsa as well if you havent yet

i know my thing is sloppy so i can clarify confusions, i tried to make this thing as democratic (accountable to other parts and balanced) as possible without it really being democratic 

edit: small but important thing left, all positions in the sarbat khalsa system officialized by a jaikara after an announcement at the darshani deori (followed up by an ardas at the akal thakt) 

and a woman can serve any position of these 

also, since the 40 legislators are the only sabha chosen directly by people, people are only allowed to vote once unanimously ordained by their local gurudwara panj pyare who must take character, sewa, rehit (basic not whether amritdhari or not) into account (if the voter made any violation of any gurmatta, they must wait 8-14 years in order to be able to vote again IF approved by their local panj pyare

local panj pyare should be held accountable by sangat and if a considerable size of sangat complains about their panj  pyare and feel that they are abusing their powers, they can ask for help from any of the counsels of the 52 sewadars enforcing gurmattas (a confusing matter can be slowly sent up to the akal thakt panch which is kind of like the supreme court)