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Pakhandian Ne Paya "maun Vrat Akhand Path" Da Bharam


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No one is saying A Mortal Is Greater Than the Guru. Nor anything else of the Sort.

My point is.

Sant Jarnail Singh Ji was a Sant. Just look at how much Kamai They Have.

Lets take a step back and ponder as to how the word Sant became a prefix in Sikhi. The word "saint" originated in Christianity. After the fall of Sikh Raj, the term got associated with people in Sikhi. You won't find anybody with that title before that time. Can anybody have more 'kamai' (as you refer it to) than Bhai Mardana who spent his entire life in shadow of dhan guru nanak dev ji maharaj? Why not Sant Mardana? Bhai Gurdas. Bhai Mani Singh. Bhai Taru Singh. Bhai Dayala. Bhai Sati Das. Bhai Mati Das. Bhai Bachittar Singh. The list is endless. Guru Sahb was present in human form at that time, he could have bestowed any such title to the singhs mentioned above. But there is no place of such titles in Sikhi as there can be only one Sant that is Akal purakh and guru sahb himself. Note: Nobody is questioning the contribution of Baba/Bhai Jarnail Singh here to Sikh Panth. His name is in the same list of great singh soorme.

Coming back to the chronology of events, Britishers were first to introduce sainthood titles in Sikhi. It was done to separate sikhs from the gyan and free spirit sikhs got from guru granth sahb ji. For reference please read the entire book (I mean every page and word) "Papers relating to Punjab 1847-49, Presented to Both Houses of Parliament by Command of her majesty, may 1849", to understand the hostility of british raj towards sikh philosophy.

As to 'sant' and 'bhramgyani' shabad in sukhmani sahb, it has come only for Akal Purakh and Guru Sahb. Nobody is allowed to take those titles. If you walk into a university and find 100s of chancellors, who would you follow? There can only be 1 of them, just 1.

The only voice which carries "weight" in sikhi is that of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

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If you don't believe in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib.

I don't think this forum is right for you. The Admins have a very clear policy on this.

Of course you should stay here learn explore give your opinion but not talk about Sri Dasam Granth if you are against it. Watch the video I linked earlier BTE

BTW**

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If you don't believe in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib.

I don't think this forum is right for you. The Admins have a very clear policy on this.

Of course you should stay here learn explore give your opinion but not talk about Sri Dasam Granth if you are against it. Watch the video I linked earlier BTE

BTW**

I think you are educated enough that you are using a computer, which means you can read and speak English. Can you please point out one word I have said about if I believe in Dasam Granth or not? Did I even refer to Dasam Granth?

Your whole base of discussion revolves around if someone believes in Dasam Granth or not. Even if the matter of discussion is "Is String Theory theoretically right?", you would definitely just say "What do you think about Dasam Granth?". Please read some book which explains how to debate and discuss. I can suggest you some if you want.

Why do you start another topic without rebutting/replying/quoting to what I said about the word 'Sant'. Your way is more like a zig-zagged approach. If someone gives some point, you put forward completely different point and so on. Topic is "Maun Vrat" and you drag it to Dasam Granth debate. Is that your home ground or something? Veerji please back your claims instead of free volleying. If you claim I am against Dasam Granth, prove it, otherwise take your words back.

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So you do beleive in Sri Dasam Granth I assume.

Cool.

As far as your belief for Sants goes.

I don't care.

Everyone had their beleifs.

Only reason I got involved was because I thought you were speaking about the bani .

And I was replying to SinghSabha lol.

So I guess it could be said I jumped the gun thinking you were discussing Sri Dasam Granth as well.

Clear things up mate ?

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So you do beleive in Sri Dasam Granth I assume.

Cool.

As far as your belief for Sants goes.

I don't care.

Everyone had their beleifs.

Only reason I got involved was because I thought you were speaking about the bani .

Good. Veerji over-assumption can lead to catastrophes. So always be wary of what you assume without being clear of what the other person is talking about. Don't jump guns, that is the practice of ignorant people who don't know how to sit down and talk like enlightened intellectuals. That is rule#1 in healthy discussions (which rarely take place). Otherwise its called an 'ignorant argument'.

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Veerji how qualified are you to call someone you don't personally know a 'heretic'? Let me enlighten you with what the word professor means. It is a Latin origin word which originated in around 1350. In Latin prōfessor is one who has taken the vows of a religious order. It also refers to (in Latin) a public lecturer. So the point that he lies about his qualifications falls flat on floor. He holds a diploma from a government registered college. Which college gives title of bhramgyani, 108, sant, etc.? lol

Don't beat about the bush by what the ancient latin root meaning of a word is. Every word in the world has some root meaning in some ancient language dating back thousands of years ago. What does the word mean NOW! TODAY! is what matters. If you are telling me that a person who holds a mere diploma from an unaccredited collage can be a professor then that is as credible as a diploma holder claiming to being an MD. Sorry but in the world of academia it doesn't hold water. A public speaker is not a processor. If that is what a professor is then every yahoo who gives a lecture in speakers corner in London would qualify as a 'professor' by that definition.

He and his mentor(Ghagha) is a fake a professor just like the fake holy men who use Sant next to their names in order to trick and misguide the bhola bhaala Sikh out there. But the existence of fake professors like Dhundu and Ghughu does not mean there are no real professors out there who have academically earned to have such a qualification. Same way the existence of fake Sants does not mean there have never been real Sants. Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale is an example of a real Sant.

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If you are telling me that a person who holds a mere diploma from an unaccredited collage can be a professor then that is as credible as a diploma holder claiming to being an MD.

Being an MD just gives prefix of Dr. not Prof. MD is a professional designation. The designation of Professor is not awarded anywhere in the world, it is a post/position which one holds when teaching in an post secondary academic institute.

Don't beat about the bush by what the ancient latin root meaning of a word is. Every word in the world has some root meaning in some ancient language dating back thousands of years ago.

The meaning of the word wouldn't change even 1000 years down to road. The root meaning stays no matter how much the wording is distorted. Please refer to some linguistic Ted-talk to learn more about linguism.

Sorry but in the world of academia it doesn't hold water. A public speaker is not a processor. If that is what a professor is then every yahoo who gives a lecture in speakers corner in London would qualify as a 'professor' by that definition.

If you teach in some academic institute you may use the prefix. It is not a professional designation like CFA, Dr., Er., CMA, etc. but a common word in the 'world of academia'. Is every corner of London an academic institute? I haven't been there so not sure. If it is a case then they may call themselves. Linguism allows them.

He and his mentor(Ghagha) is a fake a professor just like the fake holy men who use Sant next to their names in order to trick and misguide the bhola bhaala Sikh out there.

Agreed. I am not defending anybody here. But these sants etc. have done more damage and hijacked sikhi more. They have money power and money rules in today's world (a realistic expression). I am not sure about Ghagga, but Dhunda is only so hated because of his approach against babas and taksalis. He speaks substance. His view on Dasam Granth is other matter. As far as Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is concerned he has done a commendable job in explaining people what guru sahb is saying. Different matter some people can't digest the simplicity of gurbani.

Same way the existence of fake Sants does not mean there have never been real Sants. Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale is an example of a real Sant.

The only sant is akal purakh and guru sahb. No other mortal can be called with that prefix. Then Bhai Mati Das should be Sant Mati Das. He is also an example of real Sant who didn't give up guru's philosophy. NOTE: I hold highest respect for Baba Jarnail Singh Ji, Real Singh Soorma of the 20th century.

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Being an MD just gives prefix of Dr. not Prof. MD is a professional designation. The designation of Professor is not awarded anywhere in the world, it is a post/position which one holds when teaching in an post secondary academic institute.

The meaning of the word wouldn't change even 1000 years down to road. The root meaning stays no matter how much the wording is distorted. Please refer to some linguistic Ted-talk to learn more about linguism.

If you teach in some academic institute you may use the prefix. It is not a professional designation like CFA, Dr., Er., CMA, etc. but a common word in the 'world of academia'. Is every corner of London an academic institute? I haven't been there so not sure. If it is a case then they may call themselves. Linguism allows them.

Agreed. I am not defending anybody here. But these sants etc. have done more damage and hijacked sikhi more. They have money power and money rules in today's world (a realistic expression). I am not sure about Ghagga, but Dhunda is only so hated because of his approach against babas and taksalis. He speaks substance. His view on Dasam Granth is other matter. As far as Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is concerned he has done a commendable job in explaining people what guru sahb is saying. Different matter some people can't digest the simplicity of gurbani.

The only sant is akal purakh and guru sahb. No other mortal can be called with that prefix. Then Bhai Mati Das should be Sant Mati Das. He is also an example of real Sant who didn't give up guru's philosophy. NOTE: I hold highest respect for Baba Jarnail Singh Ji, Real Singh Soorma of the 20th century.

You are clutching at straws. Maybe you are doing this out of Bholapan(innocence) or out of dishonesty, I don't know. By bringing in it's latin root or saying a professor is simply a lecturer you are ignoring the academic qualifications of what makes a professor. Examples of real Sikh professors are Prof Gurmukh Singh Jee who was one of the founding fathers of the Singh Sabha movement, another is Prof Sahib Singh Jee who authored a number of books on Sikhi and wrote an entire translation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee, Dr Ganda Singh(also a professor) who authored a number of books on history. These gentlemen were academically qualified for the position of a professor, they taught at collages and universities. No one disputes this. But when we have people who are mere dasvi passed and diploma holders claiming to be professors it is an insult to those great men who earned this position due to sheer hard work and it also misguides the average Jantaa into believing Dundhu and Gughu are academics when in fact they are not.

Now I will tell you what Dundha is. He is a Giani and he taught at an unaccredited institute. Just for your info, he did the Giani course from PU(patiala) which is done in 4 to 6 months. So if he wants he should add Giani to this name. But he wont do that since he doesn't want a desi sounding designation. Further more, when he attended missionary collage, he learned from Ghagha who was also a so called 'professor' there. Ghagha who used to work at the Bijli board only attended school till grade 10. After that he did a correspondance course from Sikh missionary collage which earned him a diploma. From there he began teaching at Sikh missionary collage. So it is basically the blind leading the blind. There is nothing academic about dhunda or his teacher ghagha.

As for Sant Jernail Singh Bhindranwale, he is called a Sant by Sikhs out of respect for him. Bhai Mati Das Jee was also a Sant Mahapursh. A Sant is a Saint. Who can deny these men were not Saints? The term Sant can be used out of respect for Vaheguru, Guru Jee and Sikh Saints.

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