Inter-Caste Marriage, Sikh Jatt Girl Wanting To Marry Chamar Boy.

[Guest]

Where in gurbani does it tell that mata Gujjar Kaur was a Gujjar??????

[Guest]

If Mata Gujjar Kaur's very name as used by Bhai Gurdas Ji is not good enough for you then I don't know what can be.

Where is this tuk??

Where are the sources that trehan's,bhalla's and sodhis were never khatris before 1699? What credible evidence do you have?

[dontcallmebhaji]

Some Sikhs accept black magic,cast system,fortune telling,superstition etc...... all i have to say to them is wake up........ the caste system divides our youth and community as whole and drives people away from Sikhi. We need more people of a younger generation to teach and not preach our heritage. If we contradict out gurus teachings thats where we lose the respect of the youngsters. MORE GENERIC SIKH EDUCATION, simplified without the self confessed scholars & philosphers trying to show off how intellectual they are. As for blood lines please lets not go there as we might be shocked that we all originated from Africa............A strong family were both parents accepted each other will raise strong children who will follow their faith and pass onto future generations.

[JagsawSingh]

Singhsabha1699,

For the last time please stop talking about Dera Ballan. It is irrelevent to this conversation. This conversation is purely about any group of people who want to distort Sikhi and add a '12th Guru' onto the list just because that bhagat was of the same 'caste' as them and then refer to that bhagat as the one true 'SatGuru'. Such people cannot, by very definition, be classed as Sikhs. So, as I said before, just because the OP's boyfriend describes himself as a 'Sikh' (and remember, the majority of these people that do the above still classify themselves as Sikhs) it doesn't neccessarily make it so.

Forget about dera bhallan. Every person that does the above is, by very definition, a Ravidassia. The vast majority of chamars have the above belief system. So, whilst it is at this point all hypothetical, the statistical odds do point to the boyfriend being a ravidassia.

Its all really very simple: Either you accept Sikhs as Sikhs or you accept people who distort, modify and bastardize Sikhi as Sikhs. I, along with the girl's family are in the first camp and you in the latter.

Neither I nor her parents have anything we need to justify here. Instead, it is you who need to explain how and why you think it is a good idea for this Sikh girl to marry into a family that has a 12th Guru who is, in their eyes, the Satguru.

[Koi]

I don't think "Ravidasia" was mentioned anywhere by the Original post, just "chamar"

[kamc]

You don't understand what I'm trying to say. If we marry into our gotra, that's incest. Without the caste system we wouldn't know who is our relatives..! People who discriminate against castes are bad, that doesn't mean the entire caste system is bad, it's our heritage.

I do understand, i think you may need to look up the dictionary definition of incest, just in case, i'll copy and paste it below:

1. sexual intercourse between closely related persons.

2. the crime of sexual intercourse, cohabitation, or marriage between persons within the degrees of consanguinity or affinity wherein marriage is legally forbidden.

Not marrying into the same gotra, or to coin a non Hindu word, surname, is just common sense, caste doesn't come into it. I'll say it again, caste has nothing to do with incest.

[JagsawSingh]

I don't think "Ravidasia" was mentioned anywhere by the Original post, just "chamar"

Have you read any message properly ?

There wre clues for you. Certain words were mentioned. Individual words such as 'hypothetical'. Collection of words together such as 'statistically, the vast majority of chamars are Ravidasias'. And other collection of words such as 'even though ravidassias have a 12th Guru who they elevate to the status of the one true Satguru, they still clasify themselves as Sikhs'.

These were all clues. In life, not everything is spelt out to you. Sometimes you need to use your common sense. For example, if, on some other forum, someone starts to talk about their undying love of Hitler and the BNP you can take it that statisticaly there's a good chance he's a racist....despite him not mentioning the fact in his message.

Now.....you and the other can go back to your completely meaningless discussion about surnames. A conversation made all the more ridiculous with the fact that 2 Punjabis are talking to each other about 'gorths' but each show their intellectual immaturity by thinking they are both Hindus sitting in Bombay by using the totally alien Hindi word 'gotra'.

Do you even know why you're both using a Hindi word when a perfectly good Punjabi word is available (especially when one remembers how Punjabi is nearly a thousand years older than Hindi) ? :giggle:

[Koi]

Have you read any message properly ?

There wre clues for you. Certain words were mentioned. Individual words such as 'hypothetical'. Collection of words together such as 'statistically, the vast majority of chamars are Ravidasias'. And other collection of words such as 'even though ravidassias have a 12th Guru who they elevate to the status of the one true Satguru, they still clasify themselves as Sikhs'.

These were all clues. In life, not everything is spelt out to you. Sometimes you need to use your common sense. For example, if, on some other forum, someone starts to talk about their undying love of Hitler and the BNP you can take it that statisticaly there's a good chance he's a racist....despite him not mentioning the fact in his message.

Now.....you and the other can go back to your completely meaningless discussion about surnames. A conversation made all the more ridiculous with the fact that 2 Punjabis are talking to each other about 'gorths' but each show their intellectual immaturity by thinking they are both Hindus sitting in Bombay by using the totally alien Hindi word 'gotra'.

Do you even know why you're both using a Hindi word when a perfectly good Punjabi word is available (especially when one remembers how Punjabi is nearly a thousand years older than Hindi) ? :giggle:

My point was (as I said in one of my first posts on this discussion) that caste should not matter if you have the same Gurdev/IshtDev. Which in this case is Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If both have taken Amrit and belong to the same Guru, then no problems from that point of view.

However, going against parents wishes is an entirely different kettle of fish...

[JagsawSingh]

My point was (as I said in one of my first posts on this discussion) that caste should not matter if you have the same Gurdev/IshtDev. Which in this case is Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If both have taken Amrit and belong to the same Guru, then no problems from that point of view.

However, going against parents wishes is an entirely different kettle of fish...

We're in agreement with everything then Koi, except your use of a Hindi word when a perfectly good Punjabi one will do. Our language is 1000 years older than theirs. It is them, not us, who should be sometimes using, out of respect, words from a foreign language (Punjabi) from their point of view. Slowly slowly monkey monkey they are destroying us by colonising our hearts and minds. The first step of this is through language. Each and every day I look for signs of it and I stamp violently on it like a dirty rash that needs to be squashed. Please don't do it again.

[ekgurjaskhalsa]

You don't understand what I'm trying to say. If we marry into our gotra, that's incest. Without the caste system we wouldn't know who is our relatives..! People who discriminate against castes are bad, that doesn't mean the entire caste system is bad, it's our heritage.

It ain't mine. It might be yours if you want to live in stone age.

I cannot believe why is it so difficult for people to comprehend that caste system is a social construct, just like race system, with no biological relevance, engraved in people's minds to control large numbers of sheep like you.

What heritage are you really proud of?

Where do you stand in caste system?

Let me take a guess… at number 3?

Yeah?

Here's a fact and not anyone of you caste defenders deny it,

YOU WILL NEVER BE NUMBER 1

YOU WILL NEVER BE HIGHEST CASTE.

YOU MIGHT BE HIGHER THAN THE LOWEST CASTE, BUT YOU WILL NEVER BE THE HIGHEST

Ponder on that and tell me how much proud are you of your heritage.