9 Continents

[TheFancyBanana]

essentially you are admitting 1+1=2 for one person and for another it equals 11 and for another it equals 112. Gurbani is not dependent on people like math is not dependent on humans. Both have absolute answers and are born in the absolute. Nor does Gurbani change from person to person. Each person comes to terms with math; 1+1=2. In the same way each person has to let go of their own frame of reference to understand Gurbani. Which clearly you are refusing to do.

My little brother, you picked the perfect line to show your contempt toward Gurbani. Why do you continue to force your opinion on Gurbani? The key word in this tuk is contentment. Meaning a person needs to be satisfied with the reality of, all of Gurbani is the truth. You are not satisfied with this because you continue to say a certain portion of Gurbani contains falsehood like in this line; the first word Thaal. In the previous example you misinterpreted Khands to mean continents and said it was a metaphor. Therefore I asked you what is stopping another from saying IK ONKAR is a metaphor, which you give no reply too. This tuk starts off with saying Gurbani is the truth. First please realize this simple fact and then we can continue to do the veechar (contemplate) over the following tuk.

I am perfectly satisfied for not know what the Thaal is in this tuk. My mind is content with it because I know I am reading the truth and when Guru Sahib is will to tell me what the Thaal is in this tuk, I will listen to him and bow with humility. What I have noticed thus far from others who are studying Gurbani is the need to make sense of everything according to their intellect and previous teachings. Anything that does not fit into their intellect is either a metaphor or some abstract idea that does not exist or can't be done in real life. If you believe in a all powerful and knowing God, then why the need to doubt his ability or writing? He is perfect and his writing (Gurbani) is perfect as him; there is no difference from Gurbani and Akal Purakh. Ram Rai was excommunicated out of Sikhi because he changed one word from Gurbani. Those who rattle off certain words in Gurbani as ONLY metaphors are doing the same as Ram Rai. Ram Rai did it to please the mind of the Muslims and you are doing it to please your own mind and/or those who consider you as preachers.

Leave Gurbani as is and don't change it to your thinking. Guru Sahib through Gurbani teaches us to come and sing his Gurbani as a new born child, who knows and understands nothing. Guru Sahib says let Gurbani fill your heart with love and contentment.

The difference between you and me is that I see Gurbani as written and see the examples given. Yet you refuse to see Gurbani as written and only want to see the metaphors that please your mind. The kirpa happens on those who don't change Gurbani to please their mind.

If you think I have contempt for bani, then thats cool.

If I don't gain anything from it, I won't gain anything from it. I will grow and learn from the mistakes I am making.

No Ik Oankaar can't be metaphorical as the Gurus said there was One Waheguru.

I don't see why Guru Nanak Dev Ji would be endorsing Hindu beliefs when he talks about 9 khands. I thought that came from a Hindu belief that Brahma created 9 regions.

This is what I mean by metaphors. They use concepts from many different religions and cultures to explain the truth. They use imagery and poetry to describe the truth.

Just because you explain 1+1 in different ways, it won't change the answer. Different people will have different ways of relating to the truth.

Does Guru Nanak Dev Ji believe Brahma created the Universe? Does Bhagat Farid Ji literally tell you to go cut someones head off who does not bow to Waheguru?

[ms514]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Maybe it is not 9 continents, but rather ancestral regions?

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/regions/

[Akalifauj]

No Ik Oankaar can't be metaphorical as the Gurus said there was One Waheguru.

Ik Onkaar is a metaphor and so is Vaheguru. Both are metaphors. Who are you to tell me they are not metaphors?

I don't see why Guru Nanak Dev Ji would be endorsing Hindu beliefs when he talks about 9 khands. I thought that came from a Hindu belief that Brahma created 9 regions.

If Gurbani says Brahma created the 9 Khands. Then Brahma created the 9 khands and Vaheguru created Brahma? What is wrong with Vaheguru assigning Brahma with the duty of creating the 9 khands?

This is what I mean by metaphors. They use concepts from many different religions and cultures to explain the truth. They use imagery and poetry to describe the truth.

Bring a whole shabad, anyone you believe is metaphorical/poetry/imagery and we can discuss it. Let's see what happens. No point on arguing on what will happen.

Just because you explain 1+1 in different ways, it won't change the answer. Different people will have different ways of relating to the truth.

Let me take another crack at this one. I am sayine 1+1=2. Yet you are saying this same equation has different possibilities like 11, 112, 12. Gurbani provides the frame of reference a person needs to develop to understand 1+1=2. Why would someone go adopt a different frame of reference and then come back to learn Gurbani. Again understand the analogy I put forward. It's a very straight forward analogy. Nothing complicated.

Does Guru Nanak Dev Ji believe Brahma created the Universe? Does Bhagat Farid Ji literally tell you to go cut someones head off who does not bow to Waheguru?

Bring the Shabad you want and we can discuss it. Not going to sit here and play the game, I think this elephant is a rope, no a wall, etc. Only your kind are good at wasting time in this manner and call it spiritual wisdom.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Ik Onkaar is a metaphor and so is Vaheguru. Both are metaphors. Who are you to tell me they are not metaphors?

If Gurbani says Brahma created the 9 Khands. Then Brahma created the 9 khands and Vaheguru created Brahma? What is wrong with Vaheguru assigning Brahma with the duty of creating the 9 khands?

Bring a whole shabad, anyone you believe is metaphorical/poetry/imagery and we can discuss it. Let's see what happens. No point on arguing on what will happen.

Let me take another crack at this one. I am sayine 1+1=2. Yet you are saying this same equation has different possibilities like 11, 112, 12. Gurbani provides the frame of reference a person needs to develop to understand 1+1=2. Why would someone go adopt a different frame of reference and then come back to learn Gurbani. Again understand the analogy I put forward. It's a very straight forward analogy. Nothing complicated.

Bring the Shabad you want and we can discuss it. Not going to sit here and play the game, I think this elephant is a rope, no a wall, etc. Only your kind are good at wasting time in this manner and call it spiritual wisdom.

Here's the Farid shabad he's talking about:

ਜੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਸਾਂਈ ਨਾ ਨਿਵੈ ਸੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਕਪਿ ਉਤਾਰਿ ॥੭੧॥ जो सिरु सांई ना निवै सो सिरु कपि उतारि ॥७१॥ Jo sir sāʼn▫ī nā nivai so sir kap uṯār. ||71|| The head which does not bow to the Lord - chop off and remove that head. ||71||

ਜੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਸਾਈ ਨਾ ਨਿਵੈ ਸੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਕੀਜੈ ਕਾਂਇ ॥ जो सिरु साई ना निवै सो सिरु कीजै कांइ ॥ Jo sir sā▫ī nā nivai so sir kījai kāʼn▫e. That head which does not bow to the Lord - what is to be done with that head?

ਕੁੰਨੇ ਹੇਠਿ ਜਲਾਈਐ ਬਾਲਣ ਸੰਦੈ ਥਾਇ ॥੭੨॥ कुंने हेठि जलाईऐ बालण संदै थाइ ॥७२॥ Kunne heṯẖ jalā▫ī▫ai bālaṇ sanḏai thā▫e. ||72|| Put it in the fireplace, instead of firewood. ||72|| (SGGS 1381)

[Akalifauj]

Here's the Farid shabad he's talking about:

ਜੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਸਾਂਈ ਨਾ ਨਿਵੈ ਸੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਕਪਿ ਉਤਾਰਿ ॥੭੧॥ जो सिरु सांई ना निवै सो सिरु कपि उतारि ॥७१॥ Jo sir sāʼn▫ī nā nivai so sir kap uṯār. ||71|| The head which does not bow to the Lord - chop off and remove that head. ||71||

ਜੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਸਾਈ ਨਾ ਨਿਵੈ ਸੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਕੀਜੈ ਕਾਂਇ ॥ जो सिरु साई ना निवै सो सिरु कीजै कांइ ॥ Jo sir sā▫ī nā nivai so sir kījai kāʼn▫e. That head which does not bow to the Lord - what is to be done with that head?

ਕੁੰਨੇ ਹੇਠਿ ਜਲਾਈਐ ਬਾਲਣ ਸੰਦੈ ਥਾਇ ॥੭੨॥ कुंने हेठि जलाईऐ बालण संदै थाइ ॥७२॥ Kunne heṯẖ jalā▫ī▫ai bālaṇ sanḏai thā▫e. ||72|| Put it in the fireplace, instead of firewood. ||72|| (SGGS 1381)

Okay, but what is wrong with these tuks?

[Ishaa]

if we understand it with reference to Hindi texts then we can understand it better…it is same as explained in Punjabi translation on online translation site of guru Granth sahib ji.

 The nav khand are described as (1) Bharata, (2) Kinnara, (3) Hari, (4) Kuru, (5) Hiranmaya, (6) Ramyaka, (7) Ilavrta, (8) Bhadrasva and (9) Ketumala. These are different parts of Jambudvipa. A valley between two mountains is called a khanda or varsa.

Take the word “khand” from any text the basic reference and meaning is almost same. The only difference is the change of spellings or some words.