Sant Hari Singh Randhawa Wale Controversy

[SadSingh]

one thing ive noticed about missionary groups/people is that they are always on the offensive, while we are on the defensive. we need to turn the tables on them and start asking them to answer our questions and videotape it and put it on the web to show the sangat what they really believe.

we can use their tactics on them for instance we can have a article with the headline '10 questions for ghagga or dunda' or cut a small piece of their katha and ask the question 'is this gurmat' like what they did to baba hari singh and see if they respond to it.

can anyone write ten questions on simran or dasan bani or anyother questions that we want them to answer in punjabi and we will post it on there website and lets see if they respond

[SadSingh]

May I have the link to their website please?

no, i dont want them to pollute your mind

[jkvlondon]

Jagsaw Singh jee, if it looks, walks and quacks like a duck then chances are it's probably a duck. The men who came for the debate are all hardcore missionaries. They use the same debate tactics that missionaries do i.e. rely on science over Gurbani. In the debate they gave further proof of their missionary identity where they repeatedly call Amrit as Khande Ki Pahul. While both words are interchangeable and both are equally Parvan. but missionaries insist that Amrit cannot be used since they claim that the term Amrit is also used by Hindus while Khande Ki Pahul is not. Next they will say we should not eat Aloo Gobi because Hindus also eat Aloo Gobi.

The people who were used for attack purposes by the missionaries are typically all Patits. They do not follow the religion themselves. They came there with the firm intention to not allow Hari Singh to perform Katha no matter hwat. The organizers and people in Sangat can be seen begging them to allow the Katha to continue and they will be allowed to question him after the Katha. They were disrupting the Dhadi Jatha who belong to a Shaheed family. They pushed people in the Sangat. Sangat is Guru Roop, that means they pushed around our Guru. I ask you is this how a person should behave in Hazuri of Guru Maharaj? Even animals would not react this way.

There is a way of doing things. When Hari Singh clearly gave the assurance that he will talk with them AFTER the katha was over. What need was there to act like wild animals despite assurances of talks?? I myself am not a fan of Giani Hari Singh because of his(and rest of Sant Samaj's) alliance with Badal, but one thing I have come to note of him is that he never runs away from the hard questions. He will face them and answer them. Can the same be said of Dhunda, Darshan Lal, panthpreet and missionary parcharaks who barely ever sit to do such debates and if they do they get up and leave when faced with hard questions because the answers to those hard questions might reveal their real hardcore Kala Afghanist views which they try so hard to hide.

And periods of a woman having nothing really to do with this whole thing. Their real issue with him is that he openly and firmly stand up for Dasam Granth which the missionaries have an allergy to. They cannot tolerate anyone standing up for Dasam Granth. They will watch all of Giani Hari Singh's kathas, nitpick and dissect them for any issue. When the missionary Patits were acting wildly in the Gurdwara, look how civilized Hari Singh's followers were. Not one fought with them, hit them or even spoke in a loud voice reprimanding them even though the missionaries deserved a chittar beating in my opinion. Instead they all reacted by requesting them with folded hands to allow katha to continue. Compare this with a few years ago when some Singhs tried to disrupt Dhunda's Katha in some Canadian province because Dhunda had insulted the Kirtan of Darbar Sahib by saying it is even worse than a prostitute, those Singhs were beaten and thrown out by Dhunda's missionary/ patit supporters.

The bibian were overeager to get filmed for 'confronting' Baba ji postargument , and engineered the kerfuffle on the way to darbar .Ignoring common decency even darbar etiquette by disturbing the sangat and the Dhadi jatha , repeatedly grabbing the mike in fits of haumai I feel ashamed to call myself a woman if that is the mark of an enlightened modern one. Obviously if one has a genuine doubt one will ask questions but in a civilised manner with nimrata , shanti and discreetly , Waheguru save us all from unpard gawaar pardey likhey and give True Sikh bibian the strength to teach such people the proper way of dealing with questions.

[Balkaar]

no, i dont want them to pollute your mind

If their preachments are as half-witted as you claim (which they are), then why should you be hesitant to post links to them here?

I'd expect you should relish to opportunity to lay bare their falsehood, considering you emphasised embarking upon an offensive, as opposed to mounting another defence. You can't attack anything without having some idea of what it is.

[jkvlondon]

If their preachments are as half-witted as you claim (which they are), then why should you be hesitant to post links to them here?

I'd expect you should relish to opportunity to lay bare their falsehood, considering you emphasised embarking upon an offensive, as opposed to mounting another defence. You can't attack anything without having some idea of what it is.

relish ? really you want to show gursikhs the way to Guru ji or Guru ka Nindaks ? SHow people the way to gian not agiantha show them the excellent parchaar that is out there now and the purataan katha on dasam Bani from Panth heera such as Sant Singh Maskeen ji , Sant Baba Jarnail SIngh ji , Sant Baba Gurbachan SIngh ji. Make people stronger in SIkhi , make them adhol.

[Jonny101]

The pink paghwala and the bibian were the worst. The one Singh wearing the white t-shirt who was really big and looked liked like KS Makhan was a little more civilized amonst them. Even he felt bad for the wild animalistic behavior of his comrades as you can see him express this after the program was disrupted. But the others were just full of hostility and were ready to burst at any moment.

[SadSingh]

If their preachments are as half-witted as you claim (which they are), then why should you be hesitant to post links to them here?

I'd expect you should relish to opportunity to lay bare their falsehood, considering you emphasised embarking upon an offensive, as opposed to mounting another defence. You can't attack anything without having some idea of what it is.

most of the missionary websites will get sensored if i post the website address on this forum

[Balkaar]

relish ? really you want to show gursikhs the way to Guru ji or Guru ka Nindaks ? SHow people the way to gian not agiantha show them the excellent parchaar that is out there now and the purataan katha on dasam Bani from Panth heera such as Sant Singh Maskeen ji , Sant Baba Jarnail SIngh ji , Sant Baba Gurbachan SIngh ji. Make people stronger in SIkhi , make them adhol.

My motivation in persuading people to read the things written by missionaries isn't to veer people off the road to giaan and Gursikhi.

A lot of the people who issue forth heated vitriol against 'missionaries' on the internet do not do so because they have studied their theories exhaustively and found them to be wanting. Rather, as Jagsaw Singh suggested (correct me if I am incorrect in inferring this Jagsaw), people appear to attach themselves to the anti-missionary viewpoint as though it were some sort of fad. They don't know why they hate the missionaries, they are just certain they do. They don't know why the missionaries are antithetical to the Guru. But this is what they heard.

This is the sort of mentality that ought solely to belong to sheep. It is the Pindu mentality of lashing out at things on the basis of hearsay and samosa-style journalism, from a position of utter ignorance. If we are to take a shot at anything, it is imperative that we know where and what to aim at. If people don't even know what the missionaries are promoting, they can hardly take steps to undermine these promotions can they?

You've every right to dislike the missionaries, I do too. But dislike, constructively.

[JagsawSingh]

Someone here really needs to get in touch with the Guiness Book of World Records. I honestly believe we have now smashed the record for the 'number of times the word missionary has been mentioned in a single online thread'.

[jkvlondon]

My motivation in persuading people to read the things written by missionaries isn't to veer people off the road to giaan and Gursikhi.

A lot of the people who issue forth heated vitriol against 'missionaries' on the internet do not do so because they have studied their theories exhaustively and found them to be wanting. Rather, as Jagsaw Singh suggested (correct me if I am incorrect in inferring this Jagsaw), people appear to attach themselves to the anti-missionary viewpoint as though it were some sort of fad. They don't know why they hate the missionaries, they are just certain they do. They don't know why the missionaries are antithetical to the Guru. But this is what they heard.

This is the sort of mentality that ought solely to belong to sheep. It is the Pindu mentality of lashing out at things on the basis of hearsay and samosa-style journalism, from a position of utter ignorance. If we are to take a shot at anything, it is imperative that we know where and what to aim at. If people don't even know what the missionaries are promoting, they can hardly take steps to undermine these promotions can they?

You've every right to dislike the missionaries, I do too. But dislike, constructively.

I didn't mention the M word but the N one , know a person by their actions if Baba ji is falsifying something and attaching that to Guru ji he will be just as wrong in my eyes . Sikhi deals in Truth only , if people are familiar with gurbani and arth , sakhian and itihass they will be better equipped with bibek budhi and know to avoid individuals who are doing manmat . That is all I'm saying and will say rest is up to Waheguru ji I trust him to deal with this appropriately .Dasam Bani is gurbani as it is written by Dasmesh Pita ji anyone have doubts on it can research and easily find the truth... I have no time for people who say otherwise as they don't count as sikhs in maryada's eyes . I am here to learn only and clear my karams with Guru ji's kirpa and if the call comes to give this life boon back in panth's name.

p.s. I remember a thread a while ago where I defended the 'sikh missionary society' of UK based in Gravesend and having a shop in Southall and came up against this vitriol you mention ...know the person by their deeds ... pretty speeches don't matter it's if they follow Guru ji in their actions and I can say they do. I am not a good person I have many failings but I hope that what little gian I have been blessed with has let me stay away from doing nindiya of others