Hypothetical New Sikh Sect That Accepts Homosexuality

[Balkaar]

Of course the notion of gay marriage would have seemed ridiculous to a contemporary of Guru Sahib. Not necessarily because the idea of two men in a relationship was considered abhorrent, rather, because marriage had nothing to do with love back then. Not until the latter half of the twentieth century did our people begin to marry for love - my grandparents had never even met one another until the day they were to be married.

All marriage was in the old days, was a way for families to develop alliances with one another, for couples to produce legitimate children who could further the family line and consequently determine who was to inherit property (which has always been an extremely big deal where our people are concerned - see the widespread infighting over zameens that bedevils our lot). Love was irrelevant. And considering that gays could not produce legitimate children to inherit neither name nor land, a marriage between two men would have seemed utterly pointless. Back then. Times have changed. And so has the institution of marriage, which is no longer bound to these archaic notions. Love is its object now, not lineage or inheritance. Love is treated as the only reasonable justification for two people wanting to spend the rest of their lives with one another, all else is surplus to requirement. Gays can love one another. They fulfill the main condition for matrimony. Why, therefore, shouldn't they be eligible to be married?

[SheikhYoBooty]

Can I just ask one thing? Where did sant Jarnail Singh ji object to woman being in the Panj Pyare? this is the first time im hearing about this so im interested in this. I don't even see how this is possible. Guru ji asked for a head in-front of an open crowd. This was both filled with Men and Woman. The Panj Pyare represent the five virtues that we as sikhs should incorporate into our lives. Sikhs, as in both man and woman who follow Sikhism. Their physical forms were not important, it's what they represent, what they did and what they passed onto us that should be important.

Sant Ji did not object to women being in Panj Pyare bro.

Remember that by June 1984 Sant Ji had rejected all the anti-Gurmat beliefs that DamDami Taksal held and hold under Dhumma today. The old video of Sant Ji objecting is from a time when DamDami Taksal supported Indira Gandhi and Congress in the 1980 elections that helped Indira Gandhi gain power in India and set in chain the events that enabled her to begin Genocide against Sikhs.

So these youtube video's are circulated by those who wish to destroy Sant Ji's legacy.

Y'know the types that claim Sant Ji are alive and well in 2015 busy living their daily life somewhere.

Bhai Randhir Ji said it was pure bahmanwaad not to allow women in Punj Pyare (from AKJ Singhs that DDT label as bemukhs+nastiks). DamDami Taksal are well known that they didn't even allow Mazhabi Sikhs Amrit in the 1920's. The same was the case with Santa Sin's Budha Dal who supported Hindu Mahants in the 1920's + then started openly supporting Indira Gandhi in the 1980's after DDT ditched her when the agenda of Indira Gandhi had become clear.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa

Waheguru ji ki Fateh

So in 1699 when Guru Gobind Singh jee asked for a head and our beloved Panj Pyare stood up and went to Guru Sahib one by one... had one of the bibi's stood up, do we think Guru Sahib would have stopped the bibi?

Guru Sahib gave equality to both genders... Guru Sahib taught social reforms all around India and other parts of the world... during those times... being a female was tough... you were not given equal rights.. you were not given education... you were sold and bought like vegetables... you had to burn yourself in the fire if your husband dies before you... you were not even allowed to attend temple or Mosque or be in the same place as men... but Guru Sahib brought equality.

Guru Sahib taught us that there is no spiritual difference between men and women.

Guru Sahib said in Asa ki waar so kyo manda aakhiye... so if Guru Sahib taught us all these things.. why would HE tell us not to include Bibiyan in Panj Pyare... why would HE tell us that Bibiyan are not allowed to do keertan... Har Jas keertan... in Harmandir Sahib... why would Guru Sahib tell His Gurmukh pyare that only Singhs can do sewa... I am sure our beloved Gurmukh pyares.... all sants and Brahmgyani... and every Gurmukh soul that has ever been or that is still here never said that Singhniyas cant be part of Panj pyare or any other Pantic sewa... it is DamDami Taksal who interpret things according to their manmat.

Tu samrath vada

meri matt thori raam

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa

Waheguru ji ki Fateh...

[InderjitS]

Sant Ji did not object to women being in Panj Pyare. Remember that by June 1984 Sant Ji had rejected all the non-Gurmat beliefs that DamDami Taksal held and hold under Dhumma today. The old video of Sant Ji objecting is from a time when DamDami Taksal supported Indira Gandhi and Congress in the 1980 elections that helped Indira Gandhi gain power in India and set in chain her Genocide against Sikhs.

So these youtube video's are circulated by those who wish to destroy Sant Ji's legacy.

Y'know the types that claim Sant Ji are alive and well busy living their daily life somewhere.

Bhai Randhir Ji said it was pure bahmanwaad not to allow women in Punj Pyare (from AKJ Singhs that DDT label as bemukhs+nastiks)

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa

Waheguru ji ki Fateh

So in 1699 when Guru Gobind Singh jee asked for head and our beloved Panj singhs stood up and went to Guru Sahib one by one... had one of the bibi's stood up, do we think Guru Sahib would have stopped the bibi? Guru Sahib gave equality to both genders... Guru Sahib taught social reforms all around India and other parts of the world... during those times... being a female was tough... you were not given equal rights.. you were not given education... you were sold and bought like vegetables... you had to burn yourself in the fire if your husband dies before you... you were not even allowed to attend temple or Mosque or be in the same place as men... but Guru Sahib brought equality.. Guru Sahib taught us that there is no difference between men and women.. Guru Sahib said in Asa ki waar so kyo manda aakhiye... so if Guru Sahib taught us all these things.. why would HE tell us not to include Bibiyan in Panj Pyare... why would HE tell us that Bibiyan are not allowed to do keertan... Har Jas keertan... in Harmandir Sahib... why would Guru Sahib tell His Gurmukh pyare that only Singhs can do sewa... I am sure our beloved Gurmukh pyares.... all sants and Brahmgyani... and every Gurmukh soul that has ever been or that is still here ever said that Singhniyas cant be part of Panj pyare or any other Pantic sewa... it is US who interprets things according to our matt...

Tu samrath vada

meri matt thori raam

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa

Waheguru ji ki Fateh...

SYB Ji,

Please quote one historical reference that shows women in Punj Piyare dhi seva. The relatively recent & small cases of Jatha Singh's who allow this practice are as rare as Giant Pandas!

[SheikhYoBooty]

I never understood why your username was SYB? Were you registering to this forum to quickly and all the other names were taken?

Haha what it was bro there was this Muslim troll here dissing Sikhs so i chose the handle when I stopped lurking.

SYB Ji,

The relatively recent & small cases of Jatha Singh's who allow this practice are as rare as Giant Pandas!

InderjitS Veer Ji obviously nangs and taksal can't stand women being in Panj Pyare but look at their track record.

Sant Sin supporting Indira in 1984 and onwards. Nangs supporting the Hindu Mahants in the 1920's.

DamDami Taksal campaigning for Indira Gandhi and Congress in the 1980 elections that led to her gaining power.

But AKJ, Missionaries + Bhai Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale give full equality to women just like Guru Sahib always have.

[Jonny101]

ਯਾਰ, ਜੋ ਮਰਜੀ ਕਹੋ, ਪਰ ਇਹ ਗੇ-ਪੁਣਾ ਗਲਤ ਆ, ਬਹੁਤ ਬਹੁਤ ਗਲਤ ਆ! ਇਹ ਧਰਮ ਤੇ ਕੁਦਰਤ, ਦੋਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਨੀਯਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਉਲਟ ਹੈ|

[thugger]

Anyone want to get tback on topic?

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Yeah you would know? I just said that wasn't decided by me, it's obvious most males get life easier in South Asia rather than us girls. I'm not the one who decided this anyways.

You said that men have better Karma than woman.

[MisterrSingh]

I'm just saying how it is in most South Asian homes.. I would treat a girl or boy or trans equally.

Where's did 'trans' come from? :o

[MisterrSingh]

Because they're not boys or girls.. but they can be dharmic.

What if they want to get married and lead a dharmic life?

[ghettosikh]

The world is turning upside down 20 yrs ago gays were considered abnormal and against nature let alone trans these ppl r going against gods laws and any sikh sect tht would support them would have to be ex communitcated