Hypothetical New Sikh Sect That Accepts Homosexuality

[MisterrSingh]

But they identified themselves as Hindu/Muslim though? Hinduism is a pretty big tree with many roots, belief in the hindu trinity isn't always necessary from what I heard.

Yup, it's like how Guru Nanak Dev Ji may have been, to all intents and purposes, born into a family that identified itself as Hindu, but they rejected the tenets and ways of the religion.

I find the Muslim bhagats who were on cordial terms with our Guru Sahibs to be a bit of a grey area though. Did they outright reject Islam or was there a reluctance to completely abandon the faith they were born into?

[SheikhYoBooty]

So how about those famous saints who still followed their own religion, like the likes of Mian Mir Ji or Ravi-das ji? :huh2:

Kira bro the religious outlook of both Sain Mian Mir Ji and Bhagat Ravidas Ji was in fact Sikh as they both rejected Islam and Hinduism outright. For example, Muslims do not do matha tek to Guru Sahib but Sain Mian Mir Ji as the total non-Muslim Sufi that they were did (as true Sufi's - who were all non-Muslims - reject the personal life example of Prophet Muhammad in relation to his slave trading, terrorism, pedophilia etc but still believe in one God). Similarly, Bhagat Ravidas Ji rejected Hinduism as all their teachings align with Gurmat as we can see from their words in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

But they identified themselves as Hindu/Muslim though?

No they absolutely did not self-identify as Hindu's or Muslims bro. Those that do not believe in the caste system, fake pilgrimages, slavery, pedophilia, terrorism etc were simply the Gurmukhs they were. Bhagat Namdev Ji (falsely called a Hindu by the enemies of Sikhs) famously states in Gurbani - Hindu anna Turk kaana - so that lays the debate to rest conclusively.

The authors of Gurbani were ALL non-Muslims and non-Hindu's.

I find the Muslim bhagats who were on cordial terms with our Guru Sahibs to be a bit of a grey area though. Did they outright reject Islam or was there a reluctance to completely abandon the faith they were born into?

MisterrSingh a lot of props from me to u bro for what u managed the last 10 years and praying that u continue in Chardi Kala.

Sain Mian Mir Ji were not Muslim though bro. By rejecting the personal life example of Prophet Muhammad (as all true Sufi's did prior to persecution) and rejecting his life as the best role model for humanity in terms of the slave trading, pedophilia, terrorism, killing he did, all our blessed Gurmukhs of Muslim ancestry clearly outright reject Islam. The biggest proof is that they all did matha tek to Guru Sahib. Obviously Bhai Mardana Ji was the first Sikh in history too.

PS: Kira and MisterrSingh you'll be pleased to know that u are both shortlisted for best new poster of 2015 along with Xerxes and Balkaar. I will be awarding the prize depending on how much each of you all pay into my bank account.

[MisterrSingh]

Sain Mian Mir Ji were not Muslim though bro. By rejecting the personal life example of Prophet Muhammad (as all true Sufi's did prior to persecution) and rejecting his life as the best role model for humanity in terms of the slave trading, pedophilia, terrorism, killing he did, all our blessed Gurmukhs of Muslim ancestry clearly outright Islam. The biggest proof is that they all did matha tek to Guru Sahib. Obviously Bhai Mardana Ji was the first Sikh in history too.

I did not know they bowed to Guru Sahib. Thanks for the confirmation, bro.

[Balkaar]

But they identified themselves as Hindu/Muslim though? Hinduism is a pretty big tree with many roots, belief in the hindu trinity isn't always necessary from what I heard.

Hinduism, and by extension, Hindu, are very tricky terms to define veerji. The Hinduism of today with its emphasis on the Trimurti would be unrecognizable to a Hindu living in the centuries before Christ, to whom Brahma, Shiva and Vishnu were little more than footnotes in sacred texts. If Jacfsing's definition of a Hindu is one who makes propitiations to the trinity of gods, then nobody before the first century AD could be called a Hindu.

A Hindu of old would be chiefly defined by his worship of Indra, the lord of storms, He would make sacrifices to Agni, lord of fire, tossing butter, soma (the juice of a hallucinatory plant) and meat into the flames in order that Agni could deliver these offerings to the realm of the gods. It would be unthinkable for a contemporary Hindu to slaughter a cow, but their ancestors did so with zealous abandon, Indra was said to be particularly fond of the charred flesh of bulls.

Today all these elemental deities, whom the Norsefolk and the ancient Greeks would not have found unfamiliar, have been completely forgotten and overshadowed by the new triumvirate. It isn't entirely surprising either. When a society advances from agrarianism and develops a system of commerce for instance, a goddess of wealth like Saraswati becomes more relevant, and Vayu, god of the wind, less so. Religions tend to reflect the societies in which they are conceived.

'Hinduism' has changed beyond all recognition, but has somehow retained its name. I think therefore, it could probably be best defined as having faith in any member of the Indian polytheistic pantheon. So that I'm not completely off topic here, several of the Bhagats were devoted to individual deities. Ramanand was a devout Vaishnav, Surdas a worshipper of Krishan.

[Kira]

Kira bro the religious outlook of both Sain Mian Mir Ji and Bhagat Ravidas Ji was in fact Sikh as they both rejected Islam and Hinduism outright. For example, Muslims do not do matha tek to Guru Sahib but Sain Mian Mir Ji as the total non-Muslim Sufi that they were did (as true Sufi's - who were all non-Muslims - reject the personal life example of Prophet Muhammad in relation to his slave trading, terrorism, pedophilia etc but still believe in one God). Similarly, Bhagat Ravidas Ji rejected Hinduism as all their teachings align with Gurmat as we can see from their words in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

I actually wasn't aware of that, thank you for that information. But Mian Mir ji still did Nimaz, or am I getting confused here?

Hinduism, and by extension, Hindu, are very tricky terms to define veerji. The Hinduism of today with its emphasis on the Trimurti would be unrecognizable to a Hindu living in the centuries before Christ, to whom Brahma, Shiva and Vishnu were little more than footnotes in sacred texts. If Jacfsing's definition of a Hindu is one who makes propitiations to the trinity of gods, then nobody before the first century AD could be called a Hindu.

A Hindu of old would be chiefly defined by his worship of Indra, the lord of storms, He would make sacrifices to Agni, lord of fire, tossing butter, soma (the juice of a hallucinatory plant) and meat into the flames in order that Agni could deliver these offerings to the realm of the gods. It would be unthinkable for a contemporary Hindu to slaughter a cow, but their ancestors did so with zealous abandon, Indra was said to be particularly fond of the charred flesh of bulls.

Today all these elemental deities, whom the Norsefolk and the ancient Greeks would not have found unfamiliar, have been completely forgotten and overshadowed by the new triumvirate. It isn't entirely surprising either. When a society advances from agrarianism and develops a system of commerce for instance, a goddess of wealth like Saraswati becomes more relevant, and Vayu, god of the wind, less so. Religions tend to reflect the societies in which they are conceived.

'Hinduism' has changed beyond all recognition, but has somehow retained its name. I think therefore, it could probably be best defined as having faith in any member of the Indian polytheistic pantheon. So that I'm not completely off topic here, several of the Bhagats were devoted to individual deities. Ramanand was a devout Vaishnav, Surdas a worshipper of Krishan.

ahh that clears it up, Hinduism is so vast and big I don't think iv done more than just tip my toe in their culture haha.

Yup, it's like how Guru Nanak Dev Ji may have been, to all intents and purposes, born into a family that identified itself as Hindu, but they rejected the tenets and ways of the religion.

I find the Muslim bhagats who were on cordial terms with our Guru Sahibs to be a bit of a grey area though. Did they outright reject Islam or was there a reluctance to completely abandon the faith they were born into?

Yeah i can see that, I was under the delusion they lead sikh-style life styles while still attached to their own faiths. As a result their bani (in Ravi-das ji's case, im not sure if Mian Mir ji contributed to the compilation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji or not) were included in our ocean of knowledge.

That's sort of why I always thought that leading a Sikh-lifestyle isn't only exclusive to Sikhism.

[S4NGH]

Question-

1) Many of us seem to think the sole or main goal of anand karaj is to reproduce. Off-spring. Is anand karaj not for people with fertility problems?

2) Must a marriage/ a relationship involve sex? What is the Sikh stand on asexuals?

3) If anand karaj is solely for a man and woman (though maharaaj specifically states that the union is of 2 genderless souls), what is the Sikh stand on Intersexuals/ Hermaphrodites.

4) Is sikhi then an exclusive faith just like the rest?

P.s. not trying to be clever so dont go gay-bashing me. If your opinion differs, lets agree to disagree

[S4NGH]

Kira bro the religious outlook of both Sain Mian Mir Ji and Bhagat Ravidas Ji was in fact Sikh as they both rejected Islam and Hinduism outright. For example, Muslims do not do matha tek to Guru Sahib but Sain Mian Mir Ji as the total non-Muslim Sufi that they were did (as true Sufi's - who were all non-Muslims - reject the personal life example of Prophet Muhammad in relation to his slave trading, terrorism, pedophilia etc but still believe in one God). Similarly, Bhagat Ravidas Ji rejected Hinduism as all their teachings align with Gurmat as we can see from their words in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

No they absolutely did not self-identify as Hindu's or Muslims bro. Those that do not believe in the caste system, fake pilgrimages, slavery, pedophilia, terrorism etc were simply the Gurmukhs they were. Bhagat Namdev Ji (falsely called a Hindu by the enemies of Sikhs) famously states in Gurbani - Hindu anna Turk kaana - so that lays the debate to rest conclusively.

The authors of Gurbani were ALL non-Muslims and non-Hindu's.

MisterrSingh a lot of props from me to u bro for what u managed the last 10 years and praying that u continue in Chardi Kala.

Sain Mian Mir Ji were not Muslim though bro. By rejecting the personal life example of Prophet Muhammad (as all true Sufi's did prior to persecution) and rejecting his life as the best role model for humanity in terms of the slave trading, pedophilia, terrorism, killing he did, all our blessed Gurmukhs of Muslim ancestry clearly outright reject Islam. The biggest proof is that they all did matha tek to Guru Sahib. Obviously Bhai Mardana Ji was the first Sikh in history too.

PS: Kira and MisterrSingh you'll be pleased to know that u are both shortlisted for best new poster of 2015 along with Xerxes and Balkaar. I will be awarding the prize depending on how much each of you all pay into my bank account.

Without the prophet mohammed there is no islam. How can a sufi be a part of islam yet reject the prophet? What are your views, as an islamophobic, of sufi islam?

please dont copy and paste any of that christain missionary crap wherever you get it from lol lets try and get on?

[eduardo]

Islam is the prophet Mohammed and the Quran and the Quran is prophet Mohammed, that's it, that really is all there is to it.

Sunni Islam follows in the direct footsteps of Prophet Mohammed, he is their role model and ultimate Guru, there are very many Hadiths about Mo but the ultimate truth is the Quran to Muslims.

What Mo says is the ultimate final judgement on all issues, until Jesus returns in the future maybe but Jesus is a very contentious issue between us Abrahamics and I shall not mention it here.

I always say Islam is the cult of Mohammed and equally Chritianity is the cult of Jesus.

I think Sikhi is the cult of Guru Nanak but then that's just me.

[S4NGH]

Islam is the prophet Mohammed and the Quran and the Quran is prophet Mohammed, that's it, that really is all there is to it.

Sunni Islam follows in the direct footsteps of Prophet Mohammed, he is their role model and ultimate Guru, there are very many Hadiths about Mo but the ultimate truth is the Quran to Muslims.

What Mo says is the ultimate final judgement on all issues, until Jesus returns in the future maybe but Jesus is a very contentious issue between us Abrahamics and I shall not mention it here.

I always say Islam is the cult of Mohammed and equally Chritianity is the cult of Jesus.

I think Sikhi is the cult of Guru Nanak but then that's just me.

Sikhi isnt the cult of Guru Nanak. Your understanding of sikhi is far off if you think Guru Nanak is the Jesus/Mohammed equivalent. But then you judge with an abrahamic gaze...

[singhsingh2015]

It already exists and is called city Sikhs. It is run by mostly homosexuals men and has an agenda