Hypothetical New Sikh Sect That Accepts Homosexuality

[sikhingthetruth 42]

I was wondering, if a group of liberal Sikhs decided to form a new Sikh sect and call it Sikhism reformed and allowed behaviors such as homosexuality etc, how would the wider Sikh community react?

[Balkaar 1,332]

That is completely unnecessary. I believe with the utmost conviction that Sikhi is the only major monotheistic religion that can accommodate homosexuals.

We, as Sikhs, keep our kes uncut because we are enjoined to accept our Satguru's design. Does the same not apply to one's sexual orientation? If one is born gay, then the 'Sikh' thing to do, in my opinion, is to accept that too.

And for those who are considering drawing comparisons between two consenting adults of the same sex having a loving relationship, and monsters who molest children, paedophilia and most other forms of sexual deviancy are acquired behaviors. Nobody is born with these proclivities. The instance of paedophilia for example is quite high among people who were sexually abused as children.

It is sad that certain elements have made Sikhi so inhospitable for some people that ideas of fantastical Sikh sects where they can finally be accepted even has to be considered.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Balkaar

[Guest Jacfsing2]

I was wondering, if a group of liberal Sikhs decided to form a new Sikh sect and call it Sikhism reformed and allowed behaviors such as homosexuality etc, how would the wider Sikh community react?

Lust is one of the 5 evils, it's only formed like all other 5 evils from Haumai, and if some reformed branch allows Kaam to be public and open then they deserve excommunication. Reforming Sikhi is like saying that our Gurus taught nothing about righteousness, next these stupid human beings will be accepting people saying that killing innocent folk is ok. Eventually this branch will cause bloodshed like how Protestants killed Catholics during the reformation.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

That is completely unnecessary. I believe with the utmost conviction that Sikhi is the only major monotheistic religion that can accommodate homosexuals.

We, as Sikhs, keep our kes uncut because we are enjoined to accept our Satguru's design. Does the same not apply to one's sexual orientation? If one is born gay, then the 'Sikh' thing to do, in my opinion, is to accept that too.

And for those who are considering drawing comparisons between two consenting adults of the same sex having a loving relationship, and monsters who molest children, paedophilia and most other forms of sexual deviancy are acquired behaviors. Nobody is born with these proclivities. The instance of paedophilia for example is quite high among people who were sexually abused as children.

It is sad that certain elements have made Sikhi so inhospitable for some people that ideas of fantastical Sikh sects where they can finally be accepted even has to be considered.

We don't keep our Kesh because it's natural, we keep our Kesh because Guru Sahib told us; as such we should try our best as either manmukhs trying to be Gurmukhs or Gurmukhs bettering their GurSikhi to follow Rehat. If that's true why do we cut our nails, Why do we shower, why aren't we nudists? Lust is something everyone who wishes to follow Guru Sahib to the fullest has to control, as such we should ask Guru Sahib to break our Shackles of Paap, in the same way he broke Sajan Thugs Shackles. Nobody is born gay, because nobody is born straight: when you were born was the first thing that came in your mind:"Let's have sex with a man/woman"

[Balkaar 1,332]

We don't keep our Kesh because it's natural, we keep our Kesh because Guru Sahib told us; as such we should try our best as either manmukhs trying to be Gurmukhs or Gurmukhs bettering their GurSikhi to follow Rehat. If that's true why do we cut our nails, Why do we shower, why aren't we nudists? Lust is something everyone who wishes to follow Guru Sahib to the fullest has to control, as such we should ask Guru Sahib to break our Shackles of Paap, in the same way he broke Sajan Thugs Shackles. Nobody is born gay, because nobody is born straight: when you were born was the first thing that came in your mind:"Let's have sex with a man/woman"

Lust does not equal all sexual impulses or attractions. Lust is an excessive fixation on matters of sex and the exhibition of promiscuous behavior. It is bad, and it must be kept under control. However it is impossible and counter-productive to attempt to purge ourselves of all vestiges of sexual attraction. It is necessary for the continuation of the species no less, and for romantic love.

Our own Guru Sahibaan had children. They didn't spring from holes in the ground, Jacfsing, they weren't delivered to Guru Sahib's house by the magic stork. They were created as per the traditional method. And the traditional method necessitates sexual attraction.

Your nails will break off by themselves if you do pretty much anything with your hands. All these record breakers with extremely long nails have to sit there vegetating all day. We shower because we are stewards of our own bodies, they were given to us by God and we've a duty to look after them. I know nobody is born feeling attracted to men or women, you've missed the point entirely. But the genetic information which determines sexuality is still there in the child, only latent, not yet active.

If nobody is born straight, then I must ask Jacfsing, when did you decide that you liked women? Or don't you? Have you conquered all sexual attraction and become asexual, like a mushroom?

Edited June 15, 2015 by Balkaar

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Lust does not equal all sexual impulses or attractions. Lust is an excessive fixation on matters of sex and the exhibition of promiscuous behavior. It is bad, and it must be kept under control. However it is impossible and counter-productive to attempt to purge ourselves of all vestiges of sexual attraction. It is necessary for the continuation of the species no less, and for romantic love.

Our own Guru Sahibaan had children. They didn't spring from holes in the ground, Jacfsing, they weren't delivered to Guru Sahib's house by the magic stork. They were created as per the traditional method. And the traditional method necessitates sexual attraction.

Your nails will break off by themselves if you do pretty much anything with your hands. All these record breakers with extremely long nails have to sit there vegetating all day. We shower because we are stewards of our own bodies, they were given to us by God and we've a duty to look after them. I know nobody is born feeling attracted to men or women, you've missed the point entirely. But the genetic information which determines sexuality is still there in the child, only latent, not yet active.

If nobody is born straight, then I must ask Jacfsing, when did you decide that you liked women? Or don't you? Have you conquered all sexual attraction and become asexual, like a mushroom?

Well to answer your last paragraph, people don't start liking the opposite or same-sex when they're born, they are attracted whenever the time is right, including myself. We are all born from our previous paap which is why lust is a part of us, you say Guru Sahib had children, but he had kids because he was not homosexual, (not that Guru Sahib loves men less than women as he is the greatest lover to humanity there ever was). There are Sikhs trying to break their shackles of slavery to Kaam and your encouraging their current masters to keep enslaving more. If anyone has a lust problem they should talk to someone, ask them for assistance and helping them through GurPrassad to be victorious, yet you keep repeating "Be lustful all you want, if you have a natural tendency to rape someone do it, molest, do that to, it's only natural" stop being hypocritical on what's natural and what's not.

[Guest]

Another question is would the panj pyare give Amrit to a homosexual? Or would the panj pyare not allow that person?

In my opinion we have no right to ban anybody from taking Amrit if they follow the basics of sikhi.

[Balkaar 1,332]

Well to answer your last paragraph, people don't start liking the opposite or same-sex when they're born, they are attracted whenever the time is right, including myself. We are all born from our previous paap which is why lust is a part of us, you say Guru Sahib had children, but he had kids because he was not homosexual, (not that Guru Sahib loves men less than women as he is the greatest lover to humanity there ever was). There are Sikhs trying to break their shackles of slavery to Kaam and your encouraging their current masters to keep enslaving more. If anyone has a lust problem they should talk to someone, ask them for assistance and helping them through GurPrassad to be victorious, yet you keep repeating "Be lustful all you want, if you have a natural tendency to rape someone do it, molest, do that to, it's only natural" stop being hypocritical on what's natural and what's not.

I am not. Pornography is bad. Rape is bad. Exorbitant Fetishes are bad. Promiscuity is bad. But homosexuality isn't.

I had a feeling somebody would equate rape to being gay. Two people who are married, man or woman, man and man, or woman and woman, who love one another, giving mutual consent to be physically intimate, is not the same as some boozy nutter forcing himself on a screaming woman.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Balkaar

[Guest Jacfsing2]

I am not. Pornography is bad. Rape is bad. Exorbitant Fetishes are bad. Promiscuity is bad. But homosexuality isn't.

I had a feeling somebody would equate rape to being gay. Two people who are married, man or woman, man and man, or woman and woman, who love one another, giving mutual consent to be physically intimate, is not the same as some boozy nutter forcing himself on a screaming woman.

I assume you support marital rape? I don't mean to sound wrong, but why are you being so defensive towards gay people? Would you support others right to be married for lust over love?

[Balkaar 1,332]

I assume you support marital rape? I don't mean to sound wrong, but why are you being so defensive towards gay people? Would you support others right to be married for lust over love?

Did I not speak about mutual consent in the post you just quoted? Of course I don't support marital rape. I'm against non-consensual activities of any sort. What did I say that prompted such a question?

I'm defensive of gay people because gay rights is a cause I care about.

Marriage should be predicated on love, first and foremost. But I can't exactly stop those who wish to get married for the wrong reasons.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Balkaar

[Akalifauj 900]

edit

Edited August 7, 2015 by Akalifauj

[Koi 272]

In one of the previous posts the question of marriage came up. While none of us would go on a witch hunt against LGBTs, we must remember that in Sikhi, marriage is between one man and one woman. No two ways about it.

[Balkaar 1,332]

Hair is not kept because of keeping vaheguru natural design.

If not for that, what then?

And say, hypothetically, that everyone does conquer the very instincts that compel us towards sex. Everybody undergoes a mystical apotheosis and loses all desire for it. The species would come to an end. Humanity would die out.

Who would be there to stop the dust from gathering on top of our Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib, in their empty and dishevelled Guru Ghars, fallen into disrepair and given over to the dominion of vines and animals?

The sexual instinct is not anathema. The sexual instinct is not equal to lust. It is necessary for the persistence of humankind, and the survival of the Sikh Dharam on Earth.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Balkaar

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Another question is would the panj pyare give Amrit to a homosexual? Or would the panj pyare not allow that person?

In my opinion we have no right to ban anybody from taking Amrit if they follow the basics of sikhi.

This isn't about Amrit it's about marriage, let's say someone used to watch porn, when they go to Guru Sahib for Amrit they are no longer a slave to lust, rather of Guru Sahib.

[eduardo 193]

If we end up in hell, Sri Dharamraj will take us out, or our Sri Guru ji would pull us out of hell from our hairs.

I always thought hell was an Abrahamic construct. Didn't realise it existed in Sikhi too.