Hypothetical New Sikh Sect That Accepts Homosexuality

[Balkaar]

^^^ this.

I'm rather certain I've liked every post of yours on this topic. Couldn't have put it better myself. Accept my approbation.

Though I don't completely disagree with the opposing opinion (it is easy to see where their passé view stems from), I am more favourably disposed towards your own.

Cheerio

Thank you S4NGH Ji, I'm always happy to secure the approval of distinguished posters.

[MisterrSingh]

This topic is possibly the only one that has me stumped in terms of what type of reaction and reasoning I should adopt.

On one hand I find homosexual behaviour alien (as much as they find hetero norms strange I guess) YET on the other hand I do think they are born that way, and as such they can't be blamed for behaviour that is out of their control; surely it's a psychlogical phenomena and not learned behaviour? As such, telling a gay to stop being gay would be like telling me to stop being straight. Anyway, I bear them no malice, I don't consider them lesser forms of life, etc, deserving of destruction, lol. I'm not going to "catch the gay" by walking past one or anything like that, lol.

But a gay Anand Karaj? Nah, can't agree with that at all. But if I'm wrong, I hope God will guide me towards the Truth, whatever it may be.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

This topic is possibly the only one that has me stumped in terms of what type of reaction and reasoning I should adopt.

On one hand I find homosexual behaviour alien (as much as they find hetero norms strange I guess) YET on the other hand I do think they are born that way, and as such they can't be blamed for behaviour that is out of their control; surely it's a psychlogical phenomena and not learned behaviour? As such, telling a gay to stop being gay would be like telling me to stop being straight. Anyway, I bear them no malice, I don't consider them lesser forms of life, etc, deserving of destruction, lol. I'm not going to "catch the gay" by walking past one or anything like that, lol.

But a gay Anand Karaj? Nah, can't agree with that at all. But if I'm wrong, I hope God will guide me towards the Truth, whatever it may be.

If you'll say we're born gay, you'd also have to say we are born with Kaam because they very definition of gay is this: "a person who is SEXUALLY attracted to people of their own sex." Clearly the thing causing it is their own Haumai mostly being Kaam. It would be the same rules for a straight.

[MisterrSingh]

If you'll say we're born gay, you'd also have to say we are born with Kaam because they very definition of gay is this: "a person who is SEXUALLY attracted to people of their own sex." Clearly the thing causing it is their own Haumai mostly being Kaam. It would be the same rules for a straight.

Like I said, I'm no scientist or psychologist, so I don't know how the brain of a homosexual is wired. I do believe though that a gay person, on the whole, knows very early on that he or she is gay. I don't think it's a conscious decision to become gay, as much as I can't switch from being hetero to homo.

Edit: We are born with kaam (amongst the other vices too) are we not? Admittedly it doesn't manifest itself until puberty in most cases, but kaam isn't something we learn is it? It comes from within, like pride, ego, attachment? Your definition of kaam is a lot more narrow than mine; I don't limit kaam to merely physical sexual acts.

[Kira]

Like I said, I'm no scientist or psychologist, so I don't know how the brain of a homosexual is wired. I do believe though that a gay person, on the whole, knows very early on that he or she is gay. I don't think it's a conscious decision to become gay, as much as I can't switch from being hetero to homo.

Edit: We are born with kaam (amongst the other vices too) are we not? Admittedly it doesn't manifest itself until puberty in most cases, but kaam isn't something we learn is it? It comes from within, like pride, ego, attachment? Your definition of kaam is a lot more narrow than mine; I don't limit kaam to merely physical sexual acts.

That's pretty true. A hetrosexual is someone who is sexually attracted to woman. By that logic all straight people are just as bad as homosexual people. Narrowing Kaam to only lust is rather narrow minded. Kaam is defined as lust for anything. But lust doesn't necessarily mean abstinence from the vice. I know several people who wish to become successful in life. That doesn't make them attached to it, its a desire of theres. As long as it doesn't manifest in such a way that they'll do anything good or evil to get there, it's harmless.

[MisterrSingh]

That's pretty true. A hetrosexual is someone who is sexually attracted to woman. By that logic all straight people are just as bad as homosexual people. Narrowing Kaam to only lust is rather narrow minded. Kaam is defined as lust for anything. But lust doesn't necessarily mean abstinence from the vice. I know several people who wish to become successful in life. That doesn't make them attached to it, its a desire of theres. As long as it doesn't manifest in such a way that they'll do anything good or evil to get there, it's harmless.

My personal definition of kaam (within the context of attraction between people) stretches to admiring an attractive member of the opposite sex. You could argue that in itself isnt inherently wrong (considering that particular instinct is required to propagate the species), but if all a person does when they go out is stare at women or try to get their attention or generally be a nuisance, then I'd say that kind of kaam is just as undesirable than always wanting to partake in physical sexual acts. Just because it isn't a physical manifestation of lust, that doesn't mean it's exempt from being termed as such IMO.

[Kira]

My personal definition of kaam stretches to admiring an attractive member of the opposite sex. You could argue that in itself isnt inherently wrong (considering that particular instinct is required to propagate the species), but if all a person does when they go out is stare at women or try to get their attention or generally be a nuisance, then I'd say that kind of kaam is just as undesirable than always wanting to partake in physical sexual acts. Just because it isn't a physical manifestation of lust, that doesn't mean it's exempt from being termed as such IMO.

That's an interesting way to look at it. I always defined Kaam as a sort of obsession over anything really. It doesn't have to be sexual in nature, it can be about someone, something but then acting on it with impure intentions.

[Balkaar]

If you'll say we're born gay, you'd also have to say we are born with Kaam because they very definition of gay is this: "a person who is SEXUALLY attracted to people of their own sex." Clearly the thing causing it is their own Haumai mostly being Kaam. It would be the same rules for a straight.

Well, why would someone living in a Muslim country where one can be killed for being homosexual choose to be gay?

Why would a person in the Bible-belt of America decide to like people of the same sex, and invite the ostracism of everybody they ever knew?

Nobody would choose to live such a life.

[MisterrSingh]

That's an interesting way to look at it. I always defined Kaam as a sort of obsession over anything really. It doesn't have to be sexual in nature, it can be about someone, something but then acting on it with impure intentions.

I can see the logic in your definition. I'd just be careful in blurring the lines between lust and something like ambition and drive. Lust, by mere definition, has negative connotations in my mind at least. You could talk yourself out of pursuing a noble hobby, achieving a career, or anything else which requires single-minded concentration and desire to succeed, particularly if lust encompasses obsession in the way you describe. As always it's about balance.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Well, why would someone living in a Muslim country where one can be killed for being homosexual choose to be gay?

Why would a person in the Bible-belt of America decide to like people of the same sex, and invite the ostracism of everybody they ever knew?

Nobody would choose to live such a life.

I didn't say whether it was a choice or not, what I said was people are born with Kaam, you're still over-defensive. Plus lots of people who thought they were gays now live in happy straight marriages.