Tunisia Beach Attack

[StarStriker]

That's the sticking point for me too, Singh. As much as I'm averse to most things Islamic, particularly the brutal and bloodthirsty kind, if you listen to Giani Sant Singh Maskeen's katha they always held Mohammed and his co-horts with reverence whenever they'd relay a sakhi of his during one of their discourses. Giani Ji was not the run of the mill Giani who read a few books in the pind and then decided to hit the big time, lol. If they saw something positive in him, then surely there must've been things we're not being told.

Like you say, I believe if Mohammed was the base character he is widely portrayed as, then surely Guru Sahibs in particular would've had some choice words to say about him. I mean, paedophilia and all the rest he's been attributed with are not the kind of things a true messenger of God would ever partake in, and if Guru Sahib clearly laid out the faults of the Hindu deities and other notable dharmic personalities, then why stay silent on blowing wide open the Truth on the man in whose name such atrocities were occurring in the sub-continent at that very time? But, to my knowledge, there was nothing. Too many unanswered questions.

Who says guru ji/lord hasnt mentioned or criticised muhammeds shenanigans? Read dasam granth mate, all prior prophets/gurus sent to this world, all failed in their duties, in various ways. Whether that be via lustful actions, cutting hair, not gettin ppl to meditate on gods name, introducin new rituals etc.

mehaadheen thab prabh ouparaajaa || arab dhaes ko keeno raajaa || 26||

Then the Lord created Mahadin (Prophet Mohammed), And made him the Emperor of the Arabian Peninsula. (26)

thin bhee eaek pa(n)thh ouparaajaa || li(n)g binaa keenae sabh raajaa ||

He, too, created a path (Islam-religion), And made all the kings remove the foreskin of their phalluses (for circumcision).

sabh thae apanaa naam japaayo || sath naam kaahoo(n) n dhrirraayo ||27||

He induced all and sundry to recite his name, And did not instil the True, Eternal Name of the Lord in any one.(27)

sabh apanee apanee ourajhaanaa || paarabreham kaahoo n pashhaanaa ||

All (the religious Preceptors) got entangled in their own dogmas. No one comprehended the Transcendent One.

thap saadhhath har mohi bulaayo || eim kehi kai eih lok pat(h)aayo || 28||

I was absorbed in His austere meditation when the Lord called me. Having uttered the following words, He sent me to this world.(28)

[MisterrSingh]

Maybe he was afraid to criticise as he knew it would be certain death.

Or maybe he was wise because he knew any criticism of islam would be certain death.

They weren't cowards, bro. Our 5th and 8th Gurus accepted death willingly at the hands of the Mughals. There was no kicking and screaming at facing death, but a calm acceptance of martyrdom. When one of our Guru's very own brother was summoned before the Mughal emperor to explain a passage from our scriptures which was less than flattering towards Muslims, this brother basically changed the meaning of the lines when offering his explanation, because he was afraid of being executed or something similar. When Guru Sahib discovered this cowardice, he - if my memory serves me correct (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) excommunicated and cut off all familial ties with his brother forever. Those aren't the actions of someone who doesn't want to upset the Muslims. The word of God and the Truth were more important than blood ties to our Gurus.

Who says guru ji/lord hasnt mentioned or criticised muhammeds shenanigans? Read dasam granth mate, all prior prophets/gurus sent to this world, all failed in their duties, in various ways. Whether that be via lustful actions, cutting hair, not gettin ppl to meditate on gods name, introducin new rituals etc.

I guess there was a case of Guru Sahibs not seeing the need for spelling out everything for our feeble minds.

[SheikhYoBooty]

MisterrSingh Veer Ji the problem for S4ngh the apologist for Islam is that the proof of Prophet Muhammad's actions comes direct from the Holy Quran and the blessed noble Hadiths of Islam.

S4ngh simply can't answer ex-Muslim Ali Sina's challenge precisely because it disproves Islam using the Holy Quran and the blessed noble Hadiths of Islam to provide the undeniable evidence of Prophet Muhammad's evil character.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/challenge.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTeAB4l0KCM

TheReligionofPeace.com
Guide to Understanding Islam

What does the
Religion of Peace
Teach About...

Slavery and Sex Slavery

Question:

Does Islam condone slavery?

Does Islamic teaching allow Muslim men to keep women as sex slaves?

Summary Answer:

Islam neither ignores nor condemns slavery.

In fact, a large part of the Sharia is dedicated to the practice.

Muslims are encouraged to live in the way of Muhammad, who was a slave owner and trader. He captured slaves in battle. He had sex with his slaves. And he instructed his men to do the same. The Qur'an actually devotes more verses to making sure that Muslim men know they can keep women as sex slaves (4) than it does to telling them to pray five times a day (0).

The Qur'an:

Qur'an (33:50) - "O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee" This is one of several personal-sounding verses "from Allah" narrated by Muhammad - in this case allowing himself a virtually unlimited supply of sex partners. Other Muslims are restrained to four wives, but, following the example of their prophet, may also have sex with any number of slaves, as the following verse make clear:

Qur'an (23:5-6) - "..who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess..." This verse permits the slave-owner to have sex with his slaves. See also Qur'an (70:29-30). The Quran is a small book, so if Allah used valuable space to repeat the same point four times, then sex slavery must be very important to him.

Qur'an (4:24) - "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." Even sex with married slaves is permissible.

Qur'an (8:69) - "But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, lawful and good" A reference to war booty, of which slaves were a part. The Muslim slave master may enjoy his "catch" because (according to verse 71) "Allah gave you mastery over them."

Qur'an (24:32) - "And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves..." Breeding slaves based on fitness.

Qur'an (2:178) - "O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female." The message of this verse, which prescribes the rules of retaliation for murder, is that all humans are not created equal. The human value of a slave is less than that of a free person (and a woman's worth is also distinguished from that of a man's).

Qur'an (16:75) - "Allah sets forth the Parable (of two men: one) a slave under the dominion of another; He has no power of any sort; and (the other) a man on whom We have bestowed goodly favours from Ourselves, and he spends thereof (freely), privately and publicly: are the two equal? (By no means;) praise be to Allah." Yet another confirmation that the slave is is not equal to the master. In this case it is plain that the slave owes his status to Allah's will. (According to 16:71, the owner should be careful about insulting Allah by bestowing Allah's gifts on slaves - those whom the god of Islam has not favored).

From the Hadith:

Bukhari (80:753) - "The Prophet said, 'The freed slave belongs to the people who have freed him.'"

Bukhari (52:255) - The slave who accepts Islam and continues serving his Muslim master will receive a double reward in heaven.

Bukhari (41.598) - Slaves are property. They cannot be freed if an owner has outstanding debt, but can be used to pay off the debt.

Bukhari (62:137) - An account of women taken as slaves in battle by Muhammad's men after their husbands and fathers were killed. The woman were raped with Muhammad's approval.

Bukhari (34:432) - Another account of females taken captive and raped with Muhammad's approval. In this case it is evident that the Muslims intend on selling the women after raping them because they are concerned about devaluing their price by impregnating them. Muhammad is asked about coitus interruptus.

Bukhari (47.765) - A woman is rebuked by Muhammad for freeing a slave girl. The prophet tells her that she would have gotten a greater heavenly reward by giving her to a relative (as a slave).

Bukhari (34:351) - Muhammad sells a slave for money. He was thus a slave trader.

Bukhari (72:734) - Some contemporary Muslims in the West, where slavery is believed to be a horrible crime, are reluctant to believe that Muhammad owned slaves. This is just one of many places in the Hadith where a reference is made to a human being owned by Muhammad. In this case, the slave is of African descent.

Muslim 3901 - Muhammad trades away two black slaves for one Muslim slave.

Muslim 4112 - A man freed six slaves on the event of his death, but Muhammad reversed the emancipation and kept four in slavery to himself. He cast lots to determine which two to free.

Bukhari (47:743) - Muhammad's own pulpit - from which he preached Islam - was built with slave labor on his command.

Bukhari (59:637) - "The Prophet sent Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus (of the booty) and I hated Ali, and Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave-girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, 'Don't you see this (i.e. Ali)?' When we reached the Prophet I mentioned that to him. He said, 'O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?' I said, 'Yes.' He said, 'Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumlus.'" Muhammad approved of his men having sex with slaves, as this episode involving his son-in-law, Ali, clearly proves. This hadith refutes the modern apologists who pretend that slaves were really "wives," since Muhammad had forbidden Ali from marrying another woman as long as Fatima (his favorite daughter) was living.

Abu Dawud (2150) - "The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Qur'an 4:24) 'And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess.'" This is the background for verse 4:24 of the Qur'an. Not only does Allah grant permission for women to be captured and raped, but allows it to even be done in front of their husbands. (See also Muslim 3432 & Ibn Kathir/Abdul Rahman Part 5 Page 14)

Abu Dawud 1814 - "...[Abu Bakr] He then began to beat [his slave] him while the Apostle of Allah (pbuh) was smiling and saying: Look at this man who is in the sacred state (putting on ihram), what is he doing?" The future first caliph of Islam is beating his slave for losing a camel while Muhammad looks on in apparent amusement.

Ibn Ishaq (734) - A slave girl is given a "violent beating" by Ali in the presence of Muhammad, who does nothing about it.

Abu Dawud 38:4458 - Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib: “A slave-girl belonging to the house of the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) committed fornication. He (the Prophet) said: Rush up, Ali, and inflict the prescribed punishment on her. I then hurried up, and saw that blood was flowing from her, and did not stop. So I came to him and he said: Have you finished inflicting (punishment on her)? I said: I went to her while her blood was flowing. He said: Leave her alone till her bleeding stops; then inflict the prescribed punishment on her. And inflict the prescribed punishment on those whom your right hands possess (i.e. slaves)”. A slave girl is ordered by Muhammad to be beaten until she bleeds, and then beaten again after the bleeding stops. He indicates that this is prescribed treatment for slaves ("those whom your right hand possesses").

Ibn Ishaq (693) - "Then the apostle sent Sa-d b. Zayd al-Ansari, brother of Abdu'l-Ashal with some of the captive women of Banu Qurayza to Najd and he sold them for horses and weapons." Muhammad trades away women captured from the Banu Qurayza tribe to non-Muslim slave traders for property. (Their men had been executed after surrendering peacefully without a fight).

Umdat al-Salik (Reliance of the Traveller) (o9.13) - According to Sharia, when a child or woman is taken captive by Muslims, they become slaves by the mere fact of their capture. A captured woman's previous marriage is immediately annulled.

Additional Notes:

Slavery is deeply embedded in Islamic law and tradition. Although a slave-owner is cautioned against treating slaves harshly, basic human rights are not obliged. The very fact that only non-Muslims may be taken as slaves is evidence of Islam's supremacist doctrine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVWksqo-u-8

[eduardo]

I am not saying anyone was a coward so please dont think that.

But something doesnt add up here.

[eduardo]

Anyway the problem is that Muslims on the periphery may well blend and adapt themselves to live in harmony with their surroundings and religions but unfortunately they all pray to Mecca so all it takes is a fundamental, violent, intolerent and suppressive form of Islam to take over the Grand mosque and start transmitting via the Islamic airwaves their message.

I always think about like this, where do you get your instructions from.

If what you say about Sikhism is true then your receive your instructions from above and not from any one place (the Golden Temple) and so Sikhs can settle anywhere, Vaheguru is everywhere.

Muslims pray to Mecca and can listen to the firebrand clerics espousing domination from the Grand Mosques so even though a sect will find peace and the ability to live amongst anyone else all it takes is a few hardcore messages from Mecca and you will see their attitudes to the Kufar change.

This is the problem, all prayer mats point to Mecca and if the Meccans decide to turn the screw then the worldwide Islamic population is sure to follow.

[S4NGH]

MisterrSingh Veer Ji the problem for S4ngh the apologist for Islam is that the proof of Prophet Muhammad's actions comes direct from the Holy Quran and the blessed noble Hadiths of Islam.

S4ngh simply can't answer ex-Muslim Ali Sina's challenge precisely because it disproves Islam using the Holy Quran and the blessed noble Hadiths of Islam to provide the undeniable evidence of Prophet Muhammad's evil character.

com/watch?v=JVWksqo-u-8[/color][/url][/size][/b]

Sheikhyobooty, why dont you just talk directly to me?! Hilarious. Or respond to my post. Simple. Why are you avoiding it?

The reason I cant simply answer the challenge is because i really cba watching that vid or reading any of your copy-and-past BS. So once you post something authentic in your own words, ill read it and respond appropriately

Also, do you even know what apologist means? Ive yet to say anything to defend anything/anyone

[eduardo]

But then again I bet a lot of your prayers read in Temples and seen on TV do come from the Golden Temple but at the very worst I think your main violent struggle is Khalistan and not world domination.

And you managed to defeat the Mughal empire, your Temples have always been hotbeds of politics and uprisings but I have yet to hear a Sikh say "The whole world will be Khalistan".

You seek a Sikh state just as Muslims seek an Islamic state, they want Sharia and you want Guru's Law.

So you can see the parallels of suspicion from coming from white man.

Anyway just want to show you this, see what you think:

The Turban at the beginning is very impressive, although not sure lighting candles on a petrol station forecourt is a good idea.

If you notice around 7 minutes 35 seconds the speaker says all those who die in Ramadan are guaranteed a place in Jinnah.

Just saying.

And at 12 minutes 30 seconds, that's a good speech.

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon]

Anyway the problem is that Muslims on the periphery may well blend and adapt themselves to live in harmony with their surroundings and religions but unfortunately they all pray to Mecca so all it takes is a fundamental, violent, intolerent and suppressive form of Islam to take over the Grand mosque and start transmitting via the Islamic airwaves their message.

I always think about like this, where do you get your instructions from.

If what you say about Sikhism is true then your receive your instructions from above and not from any one place (the Golden Temple) and so Sikhs can settle anywhere, Vaheguru is everywhere.

Muslims pray to Mecca and can listen to the firebrand clerics espousing domination from the Grand Mosques so even though a sect will find peace and the ability to live amongst anyone else all it takes is a few hardcore messages from Mecca and you will see their attitudes to the Kufar change.

This is the problem, all prayer mats point to Mecca and if the Meccans decide to turn the screw then the worldwide Islamic population is sure to follow.

I don't think so much Mecca is the problem, I'd be very surprised if the Saudis allowed fanatical preachers to use Mecca as a stage. This is just an assumption of course, maybe you know for a fact Mecca is a voice for Fanatical islam. I think the bigger problem, is the small local mosques in Europe that are filled with extremists. They even use social media now a days, even a lone muslim in a 99.9% white town can get access to social media and get radicalized.

But then again I bet a lot of your prayers read in Temples and seen on TV do come from the Golden Temple but at the very worst I think your main viloent struggle is Khalistan and not world domination.

And you managed to defeat the Mughal empire, your Temples have always been hotbeds of politics and uprisings but I have yet to hear a Sikh say "The whole world will be Khalistan".

You seek a Sikh state just as Muslims seek an Islamic state, they want Sharia and you want Guru's Law.

So you can see the parallels of suspicion from coming from white man.

Anyway just want to show you this, see what you think:

https://www.youte.com/watch?v=yjjakycdfDu

Yeah, I can see where you are coming from, but we don't really have set of "gurus law" like Shariah law.

I have seen that before, just uniting against common enemy, I'd be surprised if any unity still holds.

[eduardo]

And one last thing, you'all like to do your prayers in Punjabi.

Muslims like to do their prayers in Arabic.

Bout time we started going back to doing our prayers in Latin.

So it all balances out of course, in the interests of a well balanced diverse society.

How would you like it if large numbers of us Christians started to pray in a language you don't understand?

I honestly think I should visit a good Sikh Temple, got any recommendations for the south east of UK, west london area?

[eduardo]

I would actually call this a modern pivotal moment in British history.