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Should We Support Lgbt Community?


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It's sad to see so many people saying No,

As Sikhs it is our duty to help those that face injustice no matter what the caste, color, creed or sexual orientation.

We as Sikhs ourselves have been facing a lot of injustices because of ignorance. I think working with LGBT community will not only help them but us as a community as well to gain mainstream exposure.

I think if everyone examined the academic literature it is pretty obvious that homosexuality has always existed cohesively in Indian society prior to the British Raj, who then by enforcing Victorian principles on its subjects under Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code in 1861, outlawed Homosexual intercourse. The irony of all this is that although Colonialism has long been gone, the colonial mindset of those that once ruled india remains. So now Indians as a whole are looked as backwards by the very same countries that ruled us for not accepting homosexuality when it was the Colonial system that removed it from our concious.

for those who want a serious understanding of this history I would recommend Professor Ruth Vanita's "Queering India: Same-Sex Love and Eroticism in Indian Culture and Society"

bro is that young fetty wap in your avatar?

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As long as they don't try to impose their lifestyle on Sikhi by trying to demand a so called gay "anand karaj" they can do what they want. They shouldn't be persecuted. Sikhi is a spiritual and moralistic lifestyle. The lgbt community should not try to impose the homosexual agenda on religions that do not adhere to their lifestyle. It is manmat for a Sikh to support this type of lifestyle. A few years from now these same gay lifestyle supporting Sikhs will have no problem supporting incest couples and demanding they also be allowed an anadkaraj. Guru Sahib ehna nu Sumat Bakshan. I'm surprised at S4NGH and DTF that they support this manmat. Akal takht has given its ruling on this.

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No persecution, no discrimination, no anything that - as a minority - we Sikhs would decry as unjust, etc. But leave the Anand Karaj as it is. If a gay Sikh couple feel strong enough about Sikhi then, as another user said a few weeks back, conduct a blessing or ask a Giani to do an ardaas for the union. For some even that may be pushing it, but we can't pretend gays don't exist or they don't feel the things they do for whatever reason. That's not too much to ask I reckon.

Sikhi aside I think post-modern gay culture hasn't done itself any favours in allowing the more discriminatory members of society to accept that way of life. I mean why do gays have to be so... gay? ;) Or I'm probably being unfair as people who dislike gays will always dislike them no matter how differently they behave.

But seriously, I remember reading an article written by a gay English playwright a few years ago, and he grew up in the 50's when homosexuality was practically taboo in the west, and he said he knew he was gay from a very young age, but as he got older and realised the culture and lifestyle of most gay men (in terms of the clubs, the sexual behaviour at times...), and the rites of passage a gay guy had to go through in order to find someone to be with, he basically said to himself that he wasn't that type of person; the homosexual culture, etc, was alien to him. So, he practically became celibate even though he still identified as gay. I found his attitude utterly fascinating, in that he rejected the flamboyancy and the campness (as well as the darker side of it all) and resigned himself to a life of solitude, because he wasn't going to be forced to act a certain way despite his leanings.

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Jonny Veer i think Sangha's position as an apologist for Islam is summarised below

TheReligionofPeace.com
Guide to Understanding Islam

What does the
Religion of Peace
Teach About...

Homosexuality


Question:

What is Islam's position on homosexuality?


Summary Answer:

Islam goes beyond mere disapproval of homosexuality.

Islam teaches that homosexuality is a vile form of fornication, punishable by death.

Beneath the surface, however, there are implied references in the Quran alluding to homosexual behavior in paradise, and homosexuality has always been a historical part of Arab and Muslim culture.


The Qur'an:

Qur'an (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)" - An account that is borrowed from the Biblical story of Sodom. Muslim scholars through the centuries have interpreted the "rain of stones" on the town as meaning that homosexuals should be stoned, since no other reason is given for the people's destruction. (The story is also repeated in suras 27 and 29).

Qur'an (7:81) - "Will ye commit abomination such as no creature ever did before you?" This verse is part of the previous text and it establishes that homosexuality as different from (and much worse than) adultery or other sexual sin. According to the Arabic grammar, homosexuality is called the worst sin, while references elsewhere describe other forms of non-marital sex as being "among great sins."

Qur'an (26:165-166) - "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, "And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing"

Qur'an (4:16) - "If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone" This is the Yusuf Ali translation. The original Arabic does not use the word "men" and simply says "two from among you." Yusuf Ali may have added the word "men" because the verse seems to refer to a different set than referred to in the prior verse (explicitly denoted as "your women"). In other words, since 4:15 refers to "your women", 4:16 is presumably written to and refers to men.

Interestingly, the same rules don't apply in paradise, where martyrs for the cause of Allah enjoy an orgy of virgins and "perpetual youth" Qur'an (56:17) (otherwise known as "boys" Qur'an (52:24)). Qur'an (76:19) bluntly states, "And immortal boys will circulate among them, when you see them you will count them as scattered pearls." Technically, the mere presence of boys doesn't necessarily mean sex, however it is strongly implied from the particular emphasis on the effeminacy, handsomeness and "freshness" of the boys. The female virgins of paradise are also compared to pearls (56:23).

[Editor's note: We are not implying a link between homosexuality and pedophilia here anymore than we are implying one between heterosexuality and pedophilia when mentioning that Prophet Muhammad's preferred wife was Aisha a 9-year-old girl.]

From the Hadith:

There are several lesser hadith stating, "if a man comes upon a man, then they are both adulterers," "If a woman comes upon a woman, they are both Adulteresses,” "When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes,” and “Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the one that it is being done to."

Abu Dawud (4462) - The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, "Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.".

Abu Dawud (4448) - "If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death." (Note the implicit approval of sodomizing one's wife).

Bukhari (72:774) - "The Prophet cursed effeminate men (those men who are in the similitude (assume the manners of women) and those women who assume the manners of men, and he said, 'Turn them out of your houses .' The Prophet turned out such-and-such man, and 'Umar turned out such-and-such woman."

al-Tirmidhi, Sunan 1:152 - [Muhammad said] "Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver."

Reliance of the Traveller, p17.2 - "May Allah curse him who does what Lot's people did." This is also repeated in three other places.

Additional Notes:

When Mehmed conquered Constantinople in 1453, the Muslim general demanded the 14-year-old son of one of the city's Christian leaders as his sexual concubine (the father and son chose death instead). Subsequent Ottoman administrators also engaged in homosexuality, often with the boys of conquered populations who could not afford to satisfy the jizya (poll tax on non-Muslims) in any other way than to relinquish their own children to the Religion of Peace.

And yet, homosexuals have been beheaded, hung and stoned in modern Saudi Arabia and Iran, where Muhammad's laws are applied most strictly. Five other Muslim countries also have the death penalty on their books for homosexual behavior. In the past, gays were burned as well. As one cleric recently put it, the only point of theological debate is over how the offender should be killed.

Thus illustrates the moral confusion that Islam has with homosexuality.

There are several places in the Qur'an where the story of Sodom is repeated, with emphasis placed on the destruction of the town for homosexual lewdness. Also, according to Serge Trifkovic:

Mohammed’s first successor Abu Bakr reportedly had a homosexual burned at the stake. The fourth caliph, Mohammed’s son-in-law Ali, ordered a sodomite thrown from the minaret of a mosque. Others he ordered to be stoned. One of the earliest and most authoritative commentators on the Koran, Ibn ‘Abbas (died 687) blended both approaches into a two-step execution in which “the sodomite should be thrown from the highest building in the town and then stoned. (source)

Ayatollah Abdollah Javadi-Amoli of Iran said, in April of 2012, that homosexuals are inferior to dogs and pigs, since these animals (presumably) do not engage in such acts. In November of that year, a cleric on British television stated, "What should be done to those who practice homosexuality? Torture them; punish them; beat them and give them mental torture."

A 2014 fatwa from the mainstream OnIslam.net proclaimed that homosexuality is "abnomal" and abhorrent" and confirmed that gays should be killed: "The punishment for men or women who are unwilling to give up homosexuality and therefore are rejecting the guidance of Allah Most High is in fact death according to Islam."

Since the creation of the Islamic State in 2014, a number of homosexuals have been killed by being thrown from rooftops, others by stoning. Interestingly, the caliph, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, issued a fatwa in 2015 permitting Mujahideen to "enjoy" young boys if women were not available.

(As a side note, in 2012, a cleric issues a fatwa endorsing sodomy as a means of widening the anus in order to pack it with enough explosives to kill bystanders in a suicide bombing. As Sheikh Abu al-Dema al-Qasab put it, "Jihad comes first, for it is the pinnacle of Islam, and if the pinnacle of Islam can only be achieved through sodomy, then there is no wrong in it."

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No one should hate them or treat them like animals like they do in some parts of Russia for example ,but by the same token they should not try and impress upon their beliefs onto changing the Anand ceremony. Also, Sikhs who are LGBT should not misquote Gurbani to justify being Gay.

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As long as they don't try to impose their lifestyle on Sikhi by trying to demand a so called gay "anand karaj" they can do what they want. They shouldn't be persecuted. Sikhi is a spiritual and moralistic lifestyle. The lgbt community should not try to impose the homosexual agenda on religions that do not adhere to their lifestyle. It is manmat for a Sikh to support this type of lifestyle. A few years from now these same gay lifestyle supporting Sikhs will have no problem supporting incest couples and demanding they also be allowed an anadkaraj. Guru Sahib ehna nu Sumat Bakshan. I'm surprised at S4NGH and DTF that they support this manmat. Akal takht has given its ruling on this.

Why are you surprised veere?

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Jonny Veer i think Sangha's position as an apologist for Islam is summarised below

I think he means me when he says "sangha"...? Sangha...ok...

again, thank you for posting that completely irrelevant copy-and-paste-off-a-christian-missionary site bs. Thank you.

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