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Which Is A Better Job For A Spiritual Lifestyle?


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Gurus said naam jaapo (simran etc), and kirt karo (earn your work honestly). The two are separate. Sikhs are not supposed to choose a job that allows them to do maximum bani. God does not count the am

Perhaps that is your interpretation but from my understanding, Kirta Karo is: "Those who have meditated on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, and departed after having worked by the sweat of their brows

Guru Sahib was the King of Kings who cannot be compared to any human. So think before you write or it is too big a thing to expect from you?

while your ideas sound very logical. I saw none of it supported by Gurbani.

Do you work?

Current modern day working lifestyle is genuinely incompatible with those who want to engage Naam Abhiyaas. I speak from experience. The norm of being over worked and underpaid in modern day capatalist enviroment is something you have yet to endure.

Lets not even talk about the bad sangat vibe.

24/7 naam abhiyaas doesnt come easy to all either.

Yes I work but my personal life should not concern you. It is matter of training your mind to be able to engage in 24/7 naam abhiyaas, it just becomes an unconscious part of the body like breathing. From my experience, working in a higher position, you actually get better sangat because the people are more mature and civilised. I also find that your life becomes easier when working in higher positions. Nevertheless, a sikh should not need to worry too much because Guru Sahib always takes care of the sikh and ensures their sikhi never deteriorates.

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From my experience, working in a higher position, you actually get better sangat because the people are more mature and civilised.

I understand why you'd say the above, and you say it's your experience which is fine, but you're verging on snobbery, bhenji. It's a very black and white way of looking at things. It's a few steps away from saying the more prestigious occupation and social status a person has, the better they are as a human being.

Do educated people not philander? Do they not swear? Do they not gossip? They do all those things and more. It's just society likes to pretend it's the unwashed masses or the blue-collar stiffs who have no idea how to conduct themselves with honour and respectability. That's so untrue on so many levels.

But, like I said, it's your experience so you can hardly be blamed if that's all you've encountered.

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Okay, teach me how you would interpret the rahao tuk i provided. So you are saying sining Vaheguru praises is not a Sikhs life occupation?

I am saying you can do both. Doing santhiya or vichaar allows people to understand how deeply or how literally they need to interpret bani. There are some good books on how to understand bani which will basically help you develop a better understanding on how deeply and how literally to take bani. I have some vaars which I believe mostly are in Panjabi but I can send them to you if you would like.

Gurbani is written in poetry. Poetry uses similes, alliterations, metaphors. The tuk you refer to cannot be taken literally because what if you cannot speak - how are you going to sing Gods praises? Most of us would agree that we cannot take 'singing' to mean literally singing. My advice is to always interpret the whole panna that the tuk was from. For instance there is a very famous tuk where Guru Gobind Singh says that 'Sikh pyara muj ko nahi' - if we all started to quote this then it means I don't like Sikhs but then the next bit says 'rehat pyaari muj ko'. Basically the guru said it was about following his teachings and practising that mattered not being called Sikh. So lets look at the whole panna of your tuk.

ijin idnu kir kY kIqI rwiq ] jin dhin kar kai keethee raath || The One who created the day also created the night. Ksmu ivswrih qy kmjwiq ] khasam visaarehi thae kamajaath || Those who forget their Lord and Master are vile and despicable. nwnk nwvY bwJu snwiq ]4]3] naanak naavai baajh sanaath ||4||3|| O Nanak, without the Name, they are wretched outcasts. ||4||3|| rwgu gUjrI mhlw 4 ] raag goojaree mehalaa 4 || Raag Goojaree, Fourth Mehla: hir ky jn siqgur sqpurKw ibnau krau gur pwis ] har kae jan sathigur sathapurakhaa bino karo gur paas || O humble servant of the Lord, O True Guru, O True Primal Being: I offer my humble prayer to You, O Guru. hm kIry ikrm siqgur srxweI kir dieAw nwmu prgwis ]1] ham keerae kiram sathigur saranaaee kar dhaeiaa naam paragaas ||1|| I am a mere insect, a worm. O True Guru, I seek Your Sanctuary. Please be merciful, and bless me with the Light of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||1|| myry mIq gurdyv mo kau rwm nwmu prgwis ] maerae meeth guradhaev mo ko raam naam paragaas || O my Best Friend, O Divine Guru, please enlighten me with the Name of the Lord. gurmiq nwmu myrw pRwn sKweI hir kIriq hmrI rhrwis ]1] rhwau ] guramath naam maeraa praan sakhaaee har keerath hamaree reharaas ||1|| rehaao || Through the Guru's Teachings, the Naam is my breath of life. The Kirtan of the Lord's Praise is my life's occupation. ||1||Pause|| hir jn ky vf Bwg vfyry ijn hir hir srDw hir ipAws ] har jan kae vadd bhaag vaddaerae jin har har saradhhaa har piaas || The servants of the Lord have the greatest good fortune; they have faith in the Lord, and a longing for the Lord. hir hir nwmu imlY iqRpqwsih imil sMgiq gux prgwis ]2] har har naam milai thripathaasehi mil sa(n)gath gun paragaas ||2|| Obtaining the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, they are satisfied; joining the Sangat, the Blessed Congregation, their virtues shine forth. ||2|| ijn hir hir hir rsu nwmu n pwieAw qy BwghIx jm pwis ] jin har har har ras naam n paaeiaa thae bhaageheen jam paas || Those who have not obtained the Sublime Essence of the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, Har, are most unfortunate; they are led away by the Messenger of Death. jo siqgur srix sMgiq nhI Awey iDRgu jIvy iDRgu jIvwis ]3] jo sathigur saran sa(n)gath nehee aaeae dhhrig jeevae dhhrig jeevaas ||3|| Those who have not sought the Sanctuary of the True Guru and the Sangat, the Holy Congregation-cursed are their lives, and cursed are their hopes of life. ||3|| ijn hir jn siqgur sMgiq pweI iqn Duir msqik iliKAw ilKwis ] jin har jan sathigur sa(n)gath paaee thin dhhur masathak likhiaa likhaas || Those humble servants of the Lord who have attained the Company of the True Guru, have such pre-ordained destiny inscribed on their foreheads. Dnu DMnu sqsMgiq ijqu hir rsu pwieAw imil jn nwnk nwmu prgwis ]4]4] dhhan dhha(n)n sathasa(n)gath jith har ras paaeiaa mil jan naanak naam paragaas ||4||4|| Blessed, blessed is the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation, where the Lord's Essence is obtained. Meeting with His humble servant, O Nanak, the Light of the Naam shines forth. ||4||4|| rwgu gUjrI mhlw 5 ] raag goojaree mehalaa 5 || Raag Goojaree, Fifth Mehla: kwhy ry mn icqvih audmu jw Awhir hir jIau pirAw ] kaahae rae man chithavehi oudham jaa aahar har jeeo pariaa || Why, O mind, do you plot and plan, when the Dear Lord Himself provides for your care? sYl pQr mih jMq aupwey qw kw irjku AwgY kir DirAw ]1] sail pathhar mehi ja(n)th oupaaeae thaa kaa rijak aagai kar dhhariaa ||1|| From rocks and stones He created living beings; He places their nourishment before them. ||1|| myry mwDau jI sqsMgiq imly su qirAw ] maerae maadhho jee sathasa(n)gath milae s thariaa || O my Dear Lord of souls, one who joins the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation, is saved. gur prswid prm pdu pwieAw sUky kwst hirAw ]1] rhwau ] gur parasaadh param padh paaeiaa sookae kaasatt hariaa ||1|| rehaao || By Guru's Grace, the supreme status is obtained, and the dry wood blossoms forth again in lush greenery. ||1||Pause|| jnin ipqw lok suq binqw koie n iks kI DirAw ] janan pithaa lok suth banithaa koe n kis kee dhhariaa || Mothers, fathers, friends, children and spouses-no one is the support of anyone else. isir isir irjku sMbwhy Twkuru kwhy mn Bau kirAw ]2] sir sir rijak sa(n)baahae t(h)aakur kaahae man bho kariaa ||2|| For each and every person, our Lord and Master provides sustenance. Why are you so afraid, O mind? ||2|| aUfy aUif AwvY sY kosw iqsu pwCY bcry CirAw ] ooddae oodd aavai sai kosaa this paashhai bacharae shhariaa || The flamingoes fly hundreds of miles, leaving their young ones behind. iqn kvxu KlwvY kvxu cugwvY mn mih ismrnu kirAw ]3] thin kavan khalaavai kavan chugaavai man mehi simaran kariaa ||3|| Who feeds them, and who teaches them to feed themselves? Have you ever thought of this in your mind? ||3|| siB inDwn ds Ast isDwn Twkur kr ql DirAw ] sabh nidhhaan dhas asatt sidhhaan t(h)aakur kar thal dhhariaa || All the nine treasures, and the eighteen supernatural powers are held by our Lord and Master in the Palm of His Hand. jn nwnk bil bil sd bil jweIAY qyrw AMqu n pwrwvirAw ]4]5] jan naanak bal bal sadh bal jaaeeai thaeraa a(n)th n paaraa//iaa ||4||5|| Servant Nanak is devoted, dedicated, forever a sacrifice to You, Lord. Your Expanse has no limit, no boundary. ||4||5|| rwgu Awsw mhlw 4 so purKu raag aasaa mehalaa 4 so purakhu Raag Aasaa, Fourth Mehla, So Purakh ~ That Primal Being: <> siqgur pRswid ] ik oa(n)kaar sathigur prasaadh || One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru: so purKu inrMjnu hir purKu inrMjnu hir Agmw Agm Apwrw ] so purakh nira(n)jan har purakh nira(n)jan har agamaa agam apaaraa || That Primal Being is Immaculate and Pure. The Lord, the Primal Being, is Immaculate and Pure. The Lord is Inaccessible, Unreachable and Unrivalled. siB iDAwvih siB iDAwvih quDu jI hir scy isrjxhwrw ] sabh dhhiaavehi sabh dhhiaavehi thudhh jee har sachae sirajanehaaraa || All meditate, all meditate on You, Dear Lord, O True Creator Lord. siB jIA qumwry jI qUM jIAw kw dwqwrw ] sabh jeea thumaarae jee thoo(n) jeeaa kaa dhaathaaraa || All living beings are Yours-You are the Giver of all souls. hir iDAwvhu sMqhu jI siB dUK ivswrxhwrw ] har dhhiaavahu sa(n)thahu jee sabh dhookh visaaranehaaraa || Meditate on the Lord, O Saints; He is the Dispeller of all sorrow. hir Awpy Twkuru hir Awpy syvku jI ikAw nwnk jMq ivcwrw ]1] har aapae t(h)aakur har aapae saevak jee kiaa naanak ja(n)th vichaaraa ||1|| The Lord Himself is the Master, the Lord Himself is the Servant. O Nanak, the poor beings are wretched and miserable! ||1||

This Panna is referring to people who have forgotten God when our purpose of life is God. This purpose of life is translated as God is the 'best occupation'. In terms of real life this is any occupation where you have God or Sarbat da bhalla in mind. As long as you haven't forgotten God you can work but whilst working you must remember sarbat da bhalla. As Sikhs this is our dharmic occupation. People can do that with any job that they choose to do.

while your ideas sound very logical. I saw none of it supported by Gurbani.

Do you work?

Current modern day working lifestyle is genuinely incompatible with those who want to engage Naam Abhiyaas. I speak from experience. The norm of being over worked and underpaid in modern day capatalist enviroment is something you have yet to endure.

Lets not even talk about the bad sangat vibe.

24/7 naam abhiyaas doesnt come easy to all either.

You can ask me instead - I work and I am a fully rehat keeping singhni. I work long hours often 15 hour days, I also work on my rota without weekends or a single day off. Currently I am on that part part of my rota. I did Monday to Friday days and have just done a weekend of nights. If you think this is bad, as I get more senior will be doing 72 hours continuously. So not only do I go from long days but I also go from days to nights and then I have slots where I will do a day and a night and back into a day and another night again i.e. 48 hours continuous.

Thankfully I am not underpaid and I get a very decent salary but the point is that with my intensity of work load I manage to keep my rehat absolutely fine. It is compatible if you want to do it. None of us complain that we had to find time to eat or go to the toilet, we all somehow manage to find time for these activities so why not manage to find time to do prayers? The Gold Standard a sikh is supposed to do is in the rehat maryada and you can fit that into working life. Also the bad sangat vibes are an excuse because you are your own independent person - if you want them to affect you then they will- but if you don't then they will not.


100% agree, currently i am doing 10 to 16 hours of work a day without any days off. These posters talk about worldly pursuit are inexperienced in the real world of work and environment. Hence their theories don't hold true to Gurbani. 24/7 naam abhiyaas is the only thing that matters even when a person is making financial gains in the high six figures plus helping others along the way. There are days i ask myself why, and for what am I doing it.

​I will guarantee you that I work longer hours than you do and I manage it. Like I said above we need to be careful in how we interpret tuks. If your understanding of 24 hour naam abhiyaas is to sit down for 24 hours to say waheguru then this is impossible as all humans need to sleep, eat, and do bodily functions like bathing and toileting so you cannot do it for 24 hours. Also the Gurus strongly said to not do this when they asked people to follow a ghristi jeevan. When bani refers to the naam being your breath of life it doesn't literally mean you stop breathing air and now you breathe a substance called naam. What it actually means is that you carry on breathing air but whilst breathing air you are thinking or being in naam. Thinking or being in naam does not mean you have to say waheguru. Naam is more than saying a word. What it actually means is that in every moment you are working for God and sarbat da bhalla therefore naam or God has become your 'breath' and your 'occupation'. In summary you do your normal job, just like you breathe air and within that normal job you make sure all thoughts and actions are in accordance to the teachings of naam and for sarbat da bhalla and this process will slowly become unconscious. Breathing is an unconscious process that we don't have to think about - similarly naam will become an unconscious process that just happens on its own. The best way to understand this is to study psychology as it talks about how the consciousness can be made unconscious.

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From my experience, working in a higher position, you actually get better sangat because the people are more mature and civilised.

I enjoy people watching Bhenji. One of the things I've observed is that people who give money to beggars tend not to be the middle-class professionals who occupy these higher positions of which you speak.

Actually, the most generous demographic I've ever encountered is that of the rough and uncouth Polish labourer. You've but to ask these people for money and they'll give it to you, even though they can't boast anywhere near as much of it as that sleazeball in his sports coat, who subjects the beggar to an interview concerning his intentions as if the poor bloke's applying for a bank loan.

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I enjoy people watching Bhenji. One of the things I've observed is that people who give money to beggars tend not to be the spiffy-looking professionals who occupy these higher positions of which you speak.

Actually, the most generous demographic I've ever encountered is that of the rough and uncouth Polish labourer. You've but to ask these people for money and they'll give it to you, even though they can't boast anywhere near as much of it as that sleazeball in his sports coat, who subjects the beggar to an interview concerning his intentions as if the poor bloke's applying for a bank loan.

That is nice to know.

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That is nice to know.

It wasn't just a biographical statement, my point was that you can't say that Sangat derived from the so-called upper echelons of society is more wholesome than Sangat acquired from the lower orders. It isn't. I'm more inclined to believe the opposite is true. The things I wrote about above have partially confirmed this for me.

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It wasn't just a biographical statement, my point was that you can't say that Sangat derived from the so-called upper echelons of society is more wholesome than Sangat acquired from the lower orders. It isn't. I'm more inclined to believe the opposite is true. The things I wrote about above have partially confirmed this for me.

That is fine. But I was letting Guruvah know that you can find better sangat in higher job positions because from my experience, in terms of western culture, I do find people’s maturity level is better.

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Yes I work but my personal life should not concern you.

It is matter of training your mind to be able to engage in 24/7 naam abhiyaas, it just becomes an unconscious part of the body like breathing. From my experience, working in a higher position, you actually get better sangat because the people are more mature and civilised. I also find that your life becomes easier when working in higher positions. Nevertheless, a sikh should not need to worry too much because Guru Sahib always takes care of the sikh and ensures their sikhi never deteriorates.

1.I didnt get your point in being snobish, phen jeo. Where I was coming from was give practical advice based on Gurbani & life experience. Gurbani is evidence. Its SatGuroo's voice to a Sikh.

It is matter of training your mind to be able to engage in 24/7 naam abhiyaas, it just becomes an unconscious part of the body like breathing.

2. I have seen good singhs who have careers and love Guru Sahib much. That they do not eat any food daily wihout doing darshan of SatGuroo Jee daily. I have seen these very same singhs, being tired and falling asleep during their 2 hour naam abhiyaas at amrit wela. Meaning surtee slacking from Naam.

Can they be blamed? because their work lifestyle is taking a toll on them?

Perhaps you have more keerpa. Do ardass for the likes of us then. Cause we are in need of it.

For Naam to keep churning 24/7 one needs a proper amritwela(not affected by tiredness). Saying that "one can train their mind", is houmei.

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You are taking what I said out of proportion. I actually take it very seriously to not judge people on materialistic things like occupation, looks and etc. I believe that is the reason why people lack genuine compassion, so I would never do that.

I apologise if you think I was misquoting you, but I did say if that's the kind of people you've encountered, then you can't be blamed for holding those opinions.

It just pained me to read where you were heading with your argument, because I know from my own experience it simply isn't true.

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1.I didnt get your point in being snobish, phen jeo. Where I was coming from was give practical advice based on Gurbani & life experience. Gurbani is evidence. Its SatGuroo's voice to a Sikh.

2. I have seen good singhs who have careers and love Guru Sahib much. That they do not eat any food daily wihout doing darshan of SatGuroo Jee daily. I have seen these very same singhs, being tired and falling asleep during their 2 hour naam abhiyaas at amrit wela. Meaning surtee slacking from Naam.

Can they be blamed? because their work lifestyle is taking a toll on them?

Perhaps you have more keerpa. Do ardass for the likes of us then. Cause we are in need of it.

For Naam to keep churning 24/7 one needs a proper amritwela(not affected by tiredness). Saying that "one can train their mind", is houmei.

jinee naam dhhiaaeiaa geae masakath ghaal ||

Those who have meditated on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, and departed after having worked by the sweat of their brows

&

kutt kutt man kasavattee laavai ||

Pounding and beating his mind, he puts it to the test;

so koottan mukath bahu paavai ||1||

such a pimp attains total liberation. ||1||

Every action we take may be rooted from houmei but it is what allows us to make an effort to become closer to Vaheguru. According to your mentality, we shouldn’t make an effort in sikhi or education because it can all lead us to become egotistical. In houmei, there is a cure.

houmai dheeragh rog hai dhaaroo bhee eis maahi ||

Ego is a chronic disease, but it contains its own cure as well.

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