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Which Is A Better Job For A Spiritual Lifestyle?


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Bhenji, that is the side effect of a timeworn practice of reading books.

Tusi ta aapi kehnde ne ke sikhiaa sabh tau jaroori hai, but you object to people demonstrating this same education in their manner of speech? I don't understand.

I didn't say I was against 'flowery' language. I said with the flowery writing style it gives the impression that the logic is flowing but actually the logic doesn't follow. Here is what I wrote to prove that.

Also the logic in your comments follows through only at a superficial level and most people don't realise this because you use too many 'flowery words' to give a sense of 'eloquency' but when I simplify your content into common words that people use in everyday speech you can start to see where the logic doesn't follow through.

Now lets discuss this

Well, things aren't black and white. I'm still formulating my opinions on various issues. I'm not arrogant enough to believe I have the answers to everything. Sometimes it's devil's advocate, other times I'm trying to gauge other's opinions and views to aid my understanding on a subject. I'd rather be flexible and open to all points of view than corner myself into a place where I cannot accept another point of view that doesn't chime with my own pre-conceived notions, prejudices and bias.

If I may critique your personality and powers of comprehension for a moment. You're too idealistic. You either live in a bubble where the theory has literally translated into reality - in which case lucky you - or you're ignorant to the fact that noble intentions and the like rarely translate so neatly when applied to the rawness and unpredictability of the human experience.

I'd say your worldview would be admirable if you were in your teens, but I'm guessing you're well into your 20's, and as such your understanding of matters smacks of a paucity of life experience and a heck of a lot of self-righteous delusion. I guess a lot of that can be attributed to the extreme feminist doctrine you were fed during your formative years, so I guess in some respects you aren't entirely to blame.

But I'm very touched you think I use flowery language. You're making me blush. :)

All I've done is explain the Sikhi Gold Standard Ghristi lifestyle as dictated by the Gurus - this is what the Gurus have taught us and it is what all Sikhs should strive for. I am not saying its easy but its worth the struggles just like how people fought for Turbans to not be thought of as 'hats'.

I have not expressed preconceived notions, prejudices or biases. I think your trying to sound clever again and have used these words inappropriately. Also people don't have 'powers of comprehension' - another flowery string of words that actually doesn't make sense. I don't mind eloquent words but they need to be used appropriately to convey the correct meaning. I accept that may offend you and you will try to belittle everything I have written as a result.

However if your saying what I have written 'is idealised, smacks a paucity of life experience and self-righteous delusion' then thats what your saying to the teachings of the Guru and that is what your saying to the Vision the Guru had for his Sikhs. Just so that you know - I am not in my twenties - thirties is more accurate. :biggrin2:

I guess a lot of that can be attributed to the extreme feminist doctrine you were fed during your formative years, so I guess in some respects you aren't entirely to blame.'

This is a personal jibe because I said your flowery words means people don't see that you sometimes don't have logic. I don't respond to personal jibes - also feminists are not about 'sikhs' reaching the top. Feminism is something different so I think you've used the wrong word again.

Singh Ji, haven't you heard of the unwritten rule whereby 'flowery language' is perfectly acceptable when used by a person whose opinions and thoughts align with your own, but whenever someone who doesn't share your opinions on the world dares to slip in an exotic synonym or two into a sentence, then all of a sudden it's a sign of arrogance and being an intellectual lightweight? ;)

I simply wanted to make you aware that the writing style is unclear in its logic and people are not noticing that because of the 'flowery' impressions. I didn't mean to offend you but its something to be aware of.

If you want to know - then I do have an opinion on how language should be used - I studied languages and literature - there are rules on when it is correct to use metaphors, alliteration, eloquent speech and when it is not appropriate to use them but that is not what I wrote about at all. My goal was not to make that comment to explain how to use languages or teach people; it was just to make you aware of things. If people want to learn then go to university and study languages.

BhenJi, I haven't even eaten my cornflakes yet and I'm having to put up with so much aggro so early in the day. Whatever happened to the holiness of the Sabbath? Bare Kaljug.

Not good to read this when your hungry - sorry to have hurt you so much! I didn't realise that this could have hurt so much. You should eat - I have to eat my wheat-a-bix too (just finished my night shift). Also I am not going to reply to anything else after this because I have too much going on career wise. I will let you misinterpret things and write what you want as I simply cannot keep replying to clear things up.

The only reason I originally posted was because I couldn't bear to see the future generations misinterpreting bani and thinking that 'working hard and reaching the top' wasn't worth it. I very much from the bottom of my heart want every Sikh child and adult to be the best in their professional careers so that we can have a say in the system and be a voice. The Gurus wanted us to be integrated into society in this way. Even if there is one child who has read this and is focussing on their studies and making their Ghritsi jeevan successful alongside their Sikhi jeevan then I feel I have done my job. We often think its all about spirituality but the Miri and Piri must run in parallel and one must do both.

All the best everyone I hope you all become great Sikh Miri Piri Soldiers i.e. both spiritual and temporal people.

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ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਬੈਠਤ ਹੀ ਖਾਹਿ ॥

Kee Kott Baithath Hee Khaahi ||

कई कोटि बैठत ही खाहि ॥

Many millions eat while sitting at ease.

5 ਗਉੜੀ ਸੁਖਮਨੀ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੨੭੬ ਪੰ. ੭

Raag Gauri Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev Page:276 Line: 7

ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਘਾਲਹਿ ਥਕਿ ਪਾਹਿ ॥

Kee Kott Ghaalehi Thhak Paahi ||

कई कोटि घालहि थकि पाहि ॥

Many millions are exhausted by their labors.

6 ਗਉੜੀ ਸੁਖਮਨੀ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੨੭੬ ਪੰ. ੭

Raag Gauri Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev Page:276 Line: 7

ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਕੀਏ ਧਨਵੰਤ ॥

Kee Kott Keeeae Dhhanavanth ||

कई कोटि कीए धनवंत ॥

Many millions are created wealthy.

7 ਗਉੜੀ ਸੁਖਮਨੀ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੨੭੬ ਪੰ. ੭

Raag Gauri Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev Page:276 Line: 7

ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਮਹਿ ਚਿੰਤ ॥

Kee Kott Maaeiaa Mehi Chinth ||

कई कोटि माइआ महि चिंत ॥

Many millions are anxiously involved in Maya.

8 ਗਉੜੀ ਸੁਖਮਨੀ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੨੭੬ ਪੰ. ੭

Raag Gauri Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev Page:276 Line: 7

ਜਹ ਜਹ ਭਾਣਾ ਤਹ ਤਹ ਰਾਖੇ ॥

Jeh Jeh Bhaanaa Theh Theh Raakhae ||

जह जह भाणा तह तह राखे ॥

Wherever He wills, there He keeps us.

9 ਗਉੜੀ ਸੁਖਮਨੀ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੨੭੬ ਪੰ. ੮

Raag Gauri Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev Page:276 Line: 8

ਨਾਨਕ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੈ ਹਾਥੇ ॥੫॥

Naanak Sabh Kishh Prabh Kai Haathhae ||5||

नानक सभु किछु प्रभ कै हाथे ॥५॥

O Nanak, everything is in the Hands of God. ||5||

10 ਗਉੜੀ ਸੁਖਮਨੀ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੨੭੬ ਪੰ. ੮

Raag Gauri Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev Page:276 Line: 8

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Go to the jungle and become a sanyaasi.

Sikhi is to live in the society and excel while doing kirat and reciting His name.

Did you read my whole post? Or the first few lines?
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Becoming educated and working hard is a discipline, it is an admirable quality in any human being. You are seeing education and work in the perspective of status but I am viewing it in the way of sikhs being distinguished, hard-working and contributive. Vaheguru and Guru Sahib do admire these traits in a sikh because it is a quality of Vaheguru to help the world and be intellectual.

The Gurbani tuks you provided are very broad and can be applied in different ways but the meaning behind the tuks is do naam while living in the world. Guru Gobind Singh Jee encouraged sikhs to learn about other religions to gain knowledge. It is important to be knowledgable in the world so that we can challenge and represent our Guru in the highest form we possibly can- spiritually and worldly. If you really believe living a worldly life is meaningless, Guru Sahib would not have encouraged us to live in the world but to instead run away from all worldly affairs including marriage and kids because truthfully those are the biggest worldly affairs anyone can get themselves into due to the heavy responsibility.

You are saying that becoming a doctor makes you egotistical and greedy. This is a state of mind. This sounds similar to when Muslims tell women to wear a veil to help men control their lust. The focus should be on the mind and to conquer the mind while living in the world, not to be fearful and run away.

Technology has played a big part in improving our lifestyle, even sikhi-related. Technology has brought the sangat together - you using the forum, going to the gurdwara via car or using Sikhi related apps on your phone, are all thanks to people who have worked hard in these professions. If your child became ill, you would call a doctor to help your child become better. If it wasn’t for people going into these career paths, the human existence would probably be extinct. We Sikhs are living like a slave nation, running around in other people’s country without a home and relying on others to do the work for us and then we say non-sikhi lives are pointless. It is similar to the lazy culture the west has adopted and because of that, in England, they needed to bring in an embarrassing amount of foreigners to fill the jobs they were incapable of doing. Sikhs should never be in that embarrassing position.

while your ideas sound very logical. I saw none of it supported by Gurbani.

Do you work?

Current modern day working lifestyle is genuinely incompatible with those who want to engage Naam Abhiyaas. I speak from experience. The norm of being over worked and underpaid in modern day capatalist enviroment is something you have yet to endure.

Lets not even talk about the bad sangat vibe.

24/7 naam abhiyaas doesnt come easy to all either.

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while your ideas sound very logical. I saw none of it supported by Gurbani.

Do you work?

Current modern day working lifestyle is genuinely incompatible with those who want to engage Naam Abhiyaas. I speak from experience. The norm of being over worked and underpaid in modern day capatalist enviroment is something you have yet to endure.

Lets not even talk about the bad sangat vibe.

24/7 naam abhiyaas doesnt come easy to all either.

Yes I work but my personal life should not concern you. It is matter of training your mind to be able to engage in 24/7 naam abhiyaas, it just becomes an unconscious part of the body like breathing. From my experience, working in a higher position, you actually get better sangat because the people are more mature and civilised. I also find that your life becomes easier when working in higher positions. Nevertheless, a sikh should not need to worry too much because Guru Sahib always takes care of the sikh and ensures their sikhi never deteriorates.

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From my experience, working in a higher position, you actually get better sangat because the people are more mature and civilised.

I understand why you'd say the above, and you say it's your experience which is fine, but you're verging on snobbery, bhenji. It's a very black and white way of looking at things. It's a few steps away from saying the more prestigious occupation and social status a person has, the better they are as a human being.

Do educated people not philander? Do they not swear? Do they not gossip? They do all those things and more. It's just society likes to pretend it's the unwashed masses or the blue-collar stiffs who have no idea how to conduct themselves with honour and respectability. That's so untrue on so many levels.

But, like I said, it's your experience so you can hardly be blamed if that's all you've encountered.

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