Quran (By Allah, Jibril, Or Muhammad)

[StarStriker]

What is the relevance of this to Sikhism you sound like a mole to me.

sounds like one to me too. He seems to be gettin incredibly butt-hurt by this for a "sikh".

[Dr_c]

Yes he does. Seems to be very educated about islam than he does about Sikhism.

[jkvlondon]

Can't tell you about the wider Sikh perspective, but I can, as a Sikh, inform you of my personal opinion.

They're lies. All lies. Or the figments of Muhammad's epileptic hallucinations. If the Koran really was the word of Allah ad verbatim (*correction, ad verbum*), then our Guru Sahibaan would be little better than frauds, considering that Allah explicitly states that Muhammad is the last of the messengers. There is no room for Gursikhi in this worldview.

balkaar it is the same as Yeshua , Yeshua never said pray to me he said I am not good noone except Except The Most high is good.his actions in life were similar to Guru ji , but things went south when the RC Church got hold of the scriptures discarding the female contributions, the mystical side , the doctrine of reincarnation, the proper full length commandments which go like this:

the original wording of these Commandments was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and they are pretty darn specific:

12 Commandments after the Spirit - Source: Dead Sea Scrolls:

And Jesus said unto them, “Behold a new law I give unto you which is not new

but old. Even as Moses gave the Ten Commandments to Israel after the flesh, so

also I give unto you the Twelve for the Kingdom of Israel after the Spirit.

1. Ye shall not take away the life of any creature for your pleasure, nor for

your profit, nor yet torment it.

2. Ye shall not steal the goods of any, nor gather lands and riches to

yourselves beyond your need or use.

3. Ye shall not eat the flesh, nor drink the blood of any slaughtered creature,

nor yet any thing which brings disorder to your health or senses.

4. Ye shall not make impure marriages, where love and health are not, nor yet

corrupt yourselves, or any creature made pure by the Holy.

5. Ye shall not bear false witness against any nor willfully deceive any by a

lie to hurt them.

6. Ye shall not do unto others, as ye would not that others should do unto you.

7. Ye shall worship One Eternal, the Father-Mother in Heaven, of Whom are all

things, and reverence the Holy Name.

8. Ye shall revere your fathers and your mothers on earth, whose care is for

you, and all the Teachers of Righteousness.

9. Ye shall cherish and protect the weak, and those who are oppressed, and all

creatures that suffer wrong.

10. Ye shall work with your hands the things that are good and seemly; so shalt

ye eat the fruits of the earth and live long in the land.

11. Ye shall purify yourselves daily and rest the Seventh Day from labor,

keeping holy the Sabbaths and the Festival of your God.

12: Ye shall do unto others as ye would that others should do unto you.* [aka The Golden Rule]

if they are able to fabricate the myth of the virgin birth etc and change the emphasis by omission and additions onto Yeshua from Yahweh/Ilah/Elohim adonai why should the tribes chiefs of Arabia any different? When Hazrat Mohammed went to Medina he only had 25 followers , he couldn't convinced his own people to listen to him because they loved their warring ways , killing kith and kin for power. I have my doubts about a man who says Maa ke pair meh jannat hai can in the same breathe do what he is accused of . If Hazrat Mohammed followed Akal Purakh at the start we know that his mission failed because people started praises his name more than Allah's that is faisla by Guru ji. Uthman created this exaltation of the violence and capture of war booty, and women. It would make sense to me that like the Roman Pagans they wanted to carry on their ungodly ways under the stamp of approval of a faith Mohammed left the Arabs them that excuse . Mohammed's name is not mentioned in wider Arabian literature until perhaps more than 150 years after his death.

[MisterrSingh]

Didn't Jesus have a fish as his last meal..? Wasn't that slaughter..

Big picture, Preet Ji, big picture. Munching on a macchi is hardly a crime against humanity, or an act which justifies stripping him of all divinity. Maybe they ran out of rotis that day?

[jkvlondon]

Didn't Jesus have a fish as his last meal..? Wasn't that slaughter..

but who says so ...the RC approved bible na? the oldest scrolls describe a religion which parallels our own ... if you note commandment 8 it says what our Gurus said about not criticising other religions but respecting all that teach about Akal Purakh , number 7 tells them to do Naam japna .. number 10 is kirt karna the simlarities are many but reading the bible makes one realise just how much taggi has happened

[MisterrSingh]

@jkvlondon - Sister, I voiced similar suspicions to you a few weeks ago regarding how I think Mohammed and his original message might have been co-opted by various parties over the centuries. As you say, I believe if the Mohammed we're told about in modern times is the same fellow from back then, why would our jaani-jaan Guru Sahibs neglect to mention this about the founder of a religion they were in active and violent opposition to? It would've served to strengthen our position, surely?

[Balkaar]

I feel the need to respond since i probably find myself categorised in the "some sikhs" you refer to.

For myself, its not so much a sycophantic attempt to ingratiate myself with the abrahamic faith followers or anything. Rather, I quite simply believe that they've got it wrong. The torah, the bible and the qur'an contain fragments of the Truth. They've all been altered by man since their respective messengers moved on. Only Gurbani contains the whole truth. The rest of them are 'kachi bani'.

You are free to believe this brother, and I don't think it entirely impossible that you may be right. However, the Muslims will never allow themselves to be convinced that the Koran is anything other than the literal and unaltered word of God.

[JSinghnz]

balkaar it is the same as Yeshua , Yeshua never said pray to me he said I am not good noone except Except The Most high is good.his actions in life were similar to Guru ji , but things went south when the RC Church got hold of the scriptures discarding the female contributions, the mystical side , the doctrine of reincarnation, the proper full length commandments which go like this:

the original wording of these Commandments was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and they are pretty darn specific:

12 Commandments after the Spirit - Source: Dead Sea Scrolls:

And Jesus said unto them, Behold a new law I give unto you which is not new

but old. Even as Moses gave the Ten Commandments to Israel after the flesh, so

also I give unto you the Twelve for the Kingdom of Israel after the Spirit.

1. Ye shall not take away the life of any creature for your pleasure, nor for

your profit, nor yet torment it.

2. Ye shall not steal the goods of any, nor gather lands and riches to

yourselves beyond your need or use.

3. Ye shall not eat the flesh, nor drink the blood of any slaughtered creature,

nor yet any thing which brings disorder to your health or senses.

4. Ye shall not make impure marriages, where love and health are not, nor yet

corrupt yourselves, or any creature made pure by the Holy.

5. Ye shall not bear false witness against any nor willfully deceive any by a

lie to hurt them.

6. Ye shall not do unto others, as ye would not that others should do unto you.

7. Ye shall worship One Eternal, the Father-Mother in Heaven, of Whom are all

things, and reverence the Holy Name.

8. Ye shall revere your fathers and your mothers on earth, whose care is for

you, and all the Teachers of Righteousness.

9. Ye shall cherish and protect the weak, and those who are oppressed, and all

creatures that suffer wrong.

10. Ye shall work with your hands the things that are good and seemly; so shalt

ye eat the fruits of the earth and live long in the land.

11. Ye shall purify yourselves daily and rest the Seventh Day from labor,

keeping holy the Sabbaths and the Festival of your God.

12: Ye shall do unto others as ye would that others should do unto you.* [aka The Golden Rule]

if they are able to fabricate the myth of the virgin birth etc and change the emphasis by omission and additions onto Yeshua from Yahweh/Ilah/Elohim adonai why should the tribes chiefs of Arabia any different? When Hazrat Mohammed went to Medina he only had 25 followers , he couldn't convinced his own people to listen to him because they loved their warring ways , killing kith and kin for power. I have my doubts about a man who says Maa ke pair meh jannat hai can in the same breathe do what he is accused of . If Hazrat Mohammed followed Akal Purakh at the start we know that his mission failed because people started praises his name more than Allah's that is faisla by Guru ji. Uthman created this exaltation of the violence and capture of war booty, and women. It would make sense to me that like the Roman Pagans they wanted to carry on their ungodly ways under the stamp of approval of a faith Mohammed left the Arabs them that excuse . Mohammed's name is not mentioned in wider Arabian literature until perhaps more than 150 years after his death.

Do you realize this is a Sikh website?

Stop wasting our time here with this

nonsense.

[JSinghnz]

Big picture, Preet Ji, big picture. Munching on a macchi is hardly a crime against humanity, or an act which justifies stripping him of all divinity. Maybe they ran out of rotis that day?

Now you know you are being non sensical here. Just learn more about Sikhi and you

will not have to think about others macchis and rotis.

[MisterrSingh]

Now you know you are being non sensical here. Just learn more about Sikhi and you will not have to think about others macchis and rotis.

Baba Ji, maaf karo. Galti ho gayi.