Sikhi Pantheistic ?

[TheFancyBanana]

But Panthiestic don't really accept the concept of a god that's beyond the universe. It's more the universe is god and that's it.

Nothing wrong it :D

If you want I can start now.

True, Very true. But what my point was Guru Nanak not only experienced Waheguru but Waheguru assigned him the task of starting our faith. He also gave him Japji Sahib. In his autobiography Guru Gobind Singh Ji even mentions how Waheguru sent him down to extinguish evil. That;s why I believe Waheguru isn't just a force, but a conscious one.Obviously this is me being very simplistic, he's beyond words and I do apologize to waheguru for trying to describe him.

Depends how you look at it. Waheguru has limitless forms. Creator,destroyer,sustainer,father,mother. I believe experiencing Waheguru is just the beginning. I may be wrong of course.

Completely true. Might I turn your attention to a theory that the universe is a living being? I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it.

also true. Many sikhs believe that the Spiritual realms described in Japji sahib are more like steps. But there is a school of thought that suggests they are actual physical realms as well. Obviously Waheguru is everywhere but at the same time are we really inclined to say what he can't and can do. My own interpretation of that was more like Sach Khand is the heart. Again not saying Waheguru has a heart but like sach Khand is that region where one's duality is abandoned completely and they merge with the lord. As a result that region is where Waheguru "resides" in a sense.

If that makes sense.

everything is within his Hukham, no one is outside of it :0 agree there completely.

Haha, I'm saying panENtheistic, not pantheistic. PanENtheism means Waheguru is the Universe, but is also greater than it. This is what Sikhi (I believe) says about Waheguru, it is the Universe, it is the Hukam, the law, but it is above this form.

It is part of the Hukam. I'm not going to say Waheguru communicated with Guru Nanak Dev Ji to spread Sikhi, rather the Hukam was for Guru Nanak Dev Ji to spread Sikhi. Guru Nanak Dev Ji took it upon themselves to spread the truth in the form of Sikhi.

I don't think Waheguru "gave" Japji Sahib to Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Rather, I think Japji Sahib comes from sach khand, a state where Guru Nanak Dev Ji was one with Waheguru. So it is divinely inspired, but I don't think Waheguru literally wrote it (but everything is Waheguru, so technically, Waheguru did do it).

I reject the idea of prophets, I don't think Waheguru shoots down prophets and messengers to Earth like a post man. Waheguru will enlighten whoever needs to be enlightened.

Karmi apo apni kai nerhe kai door - our actions are own, some are drawn closer, some go further away (according to their actions). If someone attempts to align with Waheguru, they will be enlightened.

Whether the Universe is a living being? Well at one point, the Universe became conscious of itself. When it spawned us humans, it became aware of itself. We are not separate from creation. Waheguru is not separate from us. Perhaps Waheguru wanted beings to be aware of themselves.

Sach khand are those people who realise Waheguru. I agree with you, bani does say there is no difference between Waheguru and the devotee.

[Kira]

Haha, I'm saying panENtheistic, not pantheistic. PanENtheism means Waheguru is the Universe, but is also greater than it. This is what Sikhi (I believe) says about Waheguru, it is the Universe, it is the Hukam, the law, but it is above this form.

Ahh right, I misread I do apologize.

It is part of the Hukam. I'm not going to say Waheguru communicated with Guru Nanak Dev Ji to spread Sikhi, rather the Hukam was for Guru Nanak Dev Ji to spread Sikhi. Guru Nanak Dev Ji took it upon themselves to spread the truth in the form of Sikhi.

Guru Nanak disappeared for 3 days, I wonder if you're familiar with this Sakhi as its one of the more well documented ones. During those three days people searched for him and when he returned that's when he proclaimed no hindu and no muslim and also revealed the Japji Sahib. Going from that I would say Waheguru did "communicate" with Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

Physically speaking you're right. But the Shabad, the word of god isn't bound by physicality. It comes in many forms, our Gurbani is just one form of it. The Bhagats who Waheguru blessed and then our teachers put their bani into our Guru Granth Sahib all had similar if not the same line of thought as our Guru Sahib. God isn't restricted to one set form in bani.

I reject the idea of prophets, I don't think Waheguru shoots down prophets and messengers to Earth like a post man. Waheguru will enlighten whoever needs to be enlightened.

The Dasam Granth sort of alludes to something against that.

Karmi apo apni kai nerhe kai door - our actions are own, some are drawn closer, some go further away (according to their actions). If someone attempts to align with Waheguru, they will be enlightened.

Very true.

Whether the Universe is a living being? Well at one point, the Universe became conscious of itself. When it spawned us humans, it became aware of itself. We are not separate from creation. Waheguru is not separate from us. Perhaps Waheguru wanted beings to be aware of themselves.

I mean like a living being, thinking, "living" in the sense it has a heart and stuff. Our self awareness is a pretty hot topic. I think our self awareness was something we developed through Evolution. Obviously by Waheguru's kirpa.

Sach khand are those people who realise Waheguru. I agree with you, bani does say there is no difference between Waheguru and the devotee.

Very true also.

[CanadianSingh]

Ahh right, I misread I do apologize.

Guru Nanak disappeared for 3 days, I wonder if you're familiar with this Sakhi as its one of the more well documented ones. During those three days people searched for him and when he returned that's when he proclaimed no hindu and no muslim and also revealed the Japji Sahib. Going from that I would say Waheguru did "communicate" with Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

Physically speaking you're right. But the Shabad, the word of god isn't bound by physicality. It comes in many forms, our Gurbani is just one form of it. The Bhagats who Waheguru blessed and then our teachers put their bani into our Guru Granth Sahib all had similar if not the same line of thought as our Guru Sahib. God isn't restricted to one set form in bani.

The Dasam Granth sort of alludes to something against that.

Very true.

I mean like a living being, thinking, "living" in the sense it has a heart and stuff. Our self awareness is a pretty hot topic. I think our self awareness was something we developed through Evolution. Obviously by Waheguru's kirpa.

Very true also.

Ahh right, I misread I do apologize.

Guru Nanak disappeared for 3 days, I wonder if you're familiar with this Sakhi as its one of the more well documented ones. During those three days people searched for him and when he returned that's when he proclaimed no hindu and no muslim and also revealed the Japji Sahib. Going from that I would say Waheguru did "communicate" with Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

Physically speaking you're right. But the Shabad, the word of god isn't bound by physicality. It comes in many forms, our Gurbani is just one form of it. The Bhagats who Waheguru blessed and then our teachers put their bani into our Guru Granth Sahib all had similar if not the same line of thought as our Guru Sahib. God isn't restricted to one set form in bani.

The Dasam Granth sort of alludes to something against that.

Very true.

I mean like a living being, thinking, "living" in the sense it has a heart and stuff. Our self awareness is a pretty hot topic. I think our self awareness was something we developed through Evolution. Obviously by Waheguru's kirpa.

Very true also.

Our Gurus told us to respect nature, and the animals. Also, Albert Enstine was a Pantheistic too.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Our Gurus told us to respect nature, and the animals. Also, Albert Enstine was a Pantheistic too.

They (Satguru) respected nature as they new their was one Vaheguru who was truly omnipresent. Pantheism is the idea that everyone is their own God.

[Redoptics]

Agree, Sikhi is panentheistic,  however we are still being labelled as monotheistic.

 

[GurjantGnostic]

Monotheism and pantheistic ideas aren't mutually exclusive. I think we're confusing pantheistic with polytheistic because pantheist could be used describe people who worshipped the Pantheon of greek gods, but also refers to the belief all this is God. 

It seems to me Sikhia is Monotheistic, yes, Pantheistic in that all this is made from Gob by God, but in no way polytheistic or revereing the Pantheon. 

[Redoptics]

2 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Monotheism and pantheistic ideas aren't mutually exclusive. I think we're confusing pantheistic with polytheistic because pantheist could be used describe people who worshipped the Pantheon of greek gods, but also refers to the belief all this is God. 

It seems to me Sikhia is Monotheistic, yes, Pantheistic in that all this is made from Gob by God, but in no way polytheistic or revereing the Pantheon. 

Vaheguru is the universe but is also seperate from the universe, so that is panentheistic from what I am aware of

[RajKaregaKhalsa1]

Bhagat Kabeer ji clearly tell us the answer. The creation is in Waheguru and Waheguru is in creation. This is because Naam is what supports all of creation (there is Shabad talking about this I think). But the creation (I.e. just this universe/ the multiverse) is not Waheguru since that is under the command of Waheguru. Waheguru commands these into existence (because he is a creative  being) but the universe doesn't create hukam (it is commanded by the one lord), Waheguru creates hukam, so in one way Waheguru and creation are the same (Waheguru permeates it) but in the other way they are different. Waheguru is the primal being who commands and is still commanding now.

Another way to think about Waheguru being in creation but not the creation itself (since Waheguru is uncreated) is that Waheguru ji resides in Sach Khand but just like how the sun rays hit earth, Waheguru ji's light also hits us and is inside.

[GurjantGnostic]

Do pantheists think that God is limited to the Universe, or that the Universe made by God, from God, is a minor creation of an indescribable self-existant One far beyond that?

[Redoptics]

46 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Monotheism and pantheistic ideas aren't mutually exclusive. I think we're confusing pantheistic with polytheistic because pantheist could be used describe people who worshipped the Pantheon of greek gods, but also refers to the belief all this is God. 

It seems to me Sikhia is Monotheistic, yes, Pantheistic in that all this is made from Gob by God, but in no way polytheistic or revereing the Pantheon. 

Panentheism  is the belief that the divine pervades and interpenetrates every part of the universe and also extends beyond time and space.

Not to be confused with Pantheism, two different concepts.