Is Gurbani Equal To Other Religious Texts

[Akalifauj]

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[simran345]

Dear Akalifauj,

Following are the words of Bhagat Kabir in Raag Aasaa, where we can see, Bhagat Kabeer Jee´s answer to your question:

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਲਗਿ ਉਤਰੇ ਤੀਰਾ

Raam Naam Lag Outharae Theeraa

राम नाम लगि उतरे तीरा

One is carried across to the other side, holding fast to the Lord's Name.

Raag Aasaa Bhagat Kabir

Just like the Bani says: Nanak Nam jahaz hae, jin chareea se utareeya paar, He too says, one is carried across to the other side by holding on His Naam.

You may very well know, everting was created from Naam, and all souls are like rays from that Naam. What to say of hindus or muslims souls, but it is the same with all the living creatures, or those bodiless ..... all souls have emerged from Him alone.

It is only when the souls take birth on earth with the gross bodies, it is only then, that they are classified in the different living stages or levels of consciousness, according to their past karmas.

If Wahiguru is one, the sole Creator, naturally the Path leading us towards Him, has to be one for the souls. He can not make distictions as we do, to His very own souls.

Everything is under His Hukum, not even a leaf of a tree can move without His Hukum

True

But in any case, if ever anyone can ever reach Wahiguru, it is only by His Nam Simran, no other way.

That is why second Patshahee says: seeing without eyes, hearing without ears, walking without feet .... means, the bodiless soul by itself, can see the Jot of Wahuguru and hear His Anhad Shabad.

Physicall eyes and ears, can never hear or see truly Wahiguru, not even the mind, it is the soul which can alone do so.

True, only the soul will feel it and absorb it, with Waheguru's grace.

The Bani says: Anter Jot, niranter Bani, Sachay Sahib siu liv laee.

Within us, is His Light and Shabad Dhun, to which when we listen and have the darshan within, then true permanent love and faith are generated in us for Him.

And to know about Him, believe in Him, think or meditate upon Him, can only be possible, if He has so wriiten on our foreheads, not otherwise, or let us say if He so wishes.

What others(from any religion) believe or do, has nothing to do with His hukum, because even the atheists, or any creature, are so by nature under His Hukum.

After all, it is by His Hukum that one merges his/her soul in Him, not by belonging to any particular religion, as we have seen above, Naam is the only reality, be it may any yuga, be it may any number of times the cycles of yugas...

Sat Sree Akal.

Nice post

ਹੁਕਮੀ ਹੋਵਨਿ ਆਕਾਰ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਨ ਕਹਿਆ ਜਾਈ ॥ हुकमी होवनि आकार हुकमु न कहिआ जाई ॥ Hukmī hovan ākār hukam na kahi▫ā jā▫ī. By His Command, bodies are created; His Command cannot be described.

ਹੁਕਮੀ ਹੋਵਨਿ ਜੀਅ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਡਿਆਈ ॥ हुकमी होवनि जीअ हुकमि मिलै वडिआई ॥ Hukmī hovan jī▫a hukam milai vadi▫ā▫ī. By His Command, souls come into being; by His Command, glory and greatness are obtained.

ਹੁਕਮੀ ਉਤਮੁ ਨੀਚੁ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਲਿਖਿ ਦੁਖ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਈਅਹਿ ॥ हुकमी उतमु नीचु हुकमि लिखि दुख सुख पाईअहि ॥ Hukmī uṯam nīcẖ hukam likẖ ḏukẖ sukẖ pā▫ī▫ah. By His Command, some are high and some are low; by His Written Command, pain and pleasure are obtained.

ਇਕਨਾ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਬਖਸੀਸ ਇਕਿ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਸਦਾ ਭਵਾਈਅਹਿ ॥ इकना हुकमी बखसीस इकि हुकमी सदा भवाईअहि ॥ Iknā hukmī bakẖsīs ik hukmī saḏā bẖavā▫ī▫ah. Some, by His Command, are blessed and forgiven; others, by His Command, wander aimlessly forever.

ਹੁਕਮੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਹੁਕਮ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ हुकमै अंदरि सभु को बाहरि हुकम न कोइ ॥ Hukmai anḏar sabẖ ko bāhar hukam na ko▫e. Everyone is subject to His Command; no one is beyond His Command.

ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੈ ਜੇ ਬੁਝੈ ਤ ਹਉਮੈ ਕਹੈ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥੨॥ नानक हुकमै जे बुझै त हउमै कहै न कोइ ॥२॥ Nānak hukmai je bujẖai ṯa ha▫umai kahai na ko▫e. ||2|| O Nanak, one who understands His Command, does not speak in ego. ||2||

[simran345]

Wouldn't bhagat kabir ji have listened to the Gurbani Akal Purkh gave him and this would be the way he took to Akal Purakh? Since his Bani is included in Gurbani wouldn't he be a Sikh?

Here is your answer ji:

ਮਃ ੪ ॥ मः ४ ॥ Mėhlā 4. Fourth Mehl:

ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਜੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਅਖਾਏ ਸੁ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥ गुर सतिगुर का जो सिखु अखाए सु भलके उठि हरि नामु धिआवै ॥ Gur saṯgur kā jo sikẖ akẖā▫e so bẖalke uṯẖ har nām ḏẖi▫āvai. One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru, the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.

ਉਦਮੁ ਕਰੇ ਭਲਕੇ ਪਰਭਾਤੀ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰਿ ਨਾਵੈ ॥ उदमु करे भलके परभाती इसनानु करे अम्रित सरि नावै ॥ Uḏam kare bẖalke parbẖāṯī isnān kare amriṯ sar nāvai. Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.

ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪੁ ਜਾਪੈ ਸਭਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਪਾਪ ਦੋਖ ਲਹਿ ਜਾਵੈ ॥ उपदेसि गुरू हरि हरि जपु जापै सभि किलविख पाप दोख लहि जावै ॥ Upḏes gurū har har jap jāpai sabẖ kilvikẖ pāp ḏokẖ lėh jāvai. Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased.

ਫਿਰਿ ਚੜੈ ਦਿਵਸੁ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਗਾਵੈ ਬਹਦਿਆ ਉਠਦਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥ फिरि चड़ै दिवसु गुरबाणी गावै बहदिआ उठदिआ हरि नामु धिआवै ॥ Fir cẖaṛai ḏivas gurbāṇī gāvai bahḏi▫ā uṯẖ▫ḏi▫ā har nām ḏẖi▫āvai. Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord's Name.

ਜੋ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਧਿਆਏ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵੈ ॥ जो सासि गिरासि धिआए मेरा हरि हरि सो गुरसिखु गुरू मनि भावै ॥ Jo sās girās ḏẖi▫ā▫e merā har har so gursikẖ gurū man bẖāvai. One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind.

[Kira]

Here is your answer ji:

ਮਃ ੪ ॥ मः ४ ॥ Mėhlā 4. Fourth Mehl:

ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਜੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਅਖਾਏ ਸੁ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥ गुर सतिगुर का जो सिखु अखाए सु भलके उठि हरि नामु धिआवै ॥ Gur saṯgur kā jo sikẖ akẖā▫e so bẖalke uṯẖ har nām ḏẖi▫āvai. One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru, the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.

ਉਦਮੁ ਕਰੇ ਭਲਕੇ ਪਰਭਾਤੀ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰਿ ਨਾਵੈ ॥ उदमु करे भलके परभाती इसनानु करे अम्रित सरि नावै ॥ Uḏam kare bẖalke parbẖāṯī isnān kare amriṯ sar nāvai. Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.

ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪੁ ਜਾਪੈ ਸਭਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਪਾਪ ਦੋਖ ਲਹਿ ਜਾਵੈ ॥ उपदेसि गुरू हरि हरि जपु जापै सभि किलविख पाप दोख लहि जावै ॥ Upḏes gurū har har jap jāpai sabẖ kilvikẖ pāp ḏokẖ lėh jāvai. Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased.

ਫਿਰਿ ਚੜੈ ਦਿਵਸੁ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਗਾਵੈ ਬਹਦਿਆ ਉਠਦਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥ फिरि चड़ै दिवसु गुरबाणी गावै बहदिआ उठदिआ हरि नामु धिआवै ॥ Fir cẖaṛai ḏivas gurbāṇī gāvai bahḏi▫ā uṯẖ▫ḏi▫ā har nām ḏẖi▫āvai. Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord's Name.

ਜੋ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਧਿਆਏ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵੈ ॥ जो सासि गिरासि धिआए मेरा हरि हरि सो गुरसिखु गुरू मनि भावै ॥ Jo sās girās ḏẖi▫ā▫e merā har har so gursikẖ gurū man bẖāvai. One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind.

Alluding on from that. The True Guru is another name for Waheguru, If we're going to be a bit more specific he was a Sikh of Waheguru. i.e a student. The bani he wrote were one and same as our Gurbani written by our Guru Sahib. Afterall a Saint and Waheguru are one and the same. Was he a Sikh in the sense we are? followers of Guru Nanak Dev Ji's path and followers of Guru Granth sahib ji. No I wouldn't say so. Was a sikh in the sense he was a learner from Waheguru. indeed he was.

[harsharan000]

Alluding on from that. The True Guru is another name for Waheguru, If we're going to be a bit more specific he was a Sikh of Waheguru. i.e a student.

The bani he wrote were one and same as our Gurbani written by our Guru Sahib.

After all a Saint and Waheguru are one and the same.

Was he a Sikh in the sense we are? followers of Guru Nanak Dev Ji's path and followers of Guru Granth sahib ji.

No I wouldn't say so.

Was a sikh in the sense he was a learner from Waheguru. indeed he was.

What a brilliant explanation Kira Ji.

Just simple and few words, and you have beautifully said it. I have had the chance to listen the kathas of quite a few gyanis, and read religious scriptures as well, and I think none had said something so logical, so truthful, and in such a very nice way.

But I must say, you are a noble soul, your thoughts, your posts, are the best expressions of what I am saying.

Keep being like that in life, with your positive attitude, and your kindness, and you will acheive a lot with His blessings, means, you will be receptive to His grace.

I also take the opportuniy here, to congratulate all the Sangat in general, as almost all are very good and helpful persons.

Not to name any, but special mention to Simran345 also, who for me is a fantastic and a very good hearted person, and as always, this attitude is what counts in one´s favour.

May Wahiguru bless all.

Sat Sree Akal

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Alluding on from that. The True Guru is another name for Waheguru, If we're going to be a bit more specific he was a Sikh of Waheguru. i.e a student. The bani he wrote were one and same as our Gurbani written by our Guru Sahib. Afterall a Saint and Waheguru are one and the same. Was he a Sikh in the sense we are? followers of Guru Nanak Dev Ji's path and followers of Guru Granth sahib ji. No I wouldn't say so. Was a sikh in the sense he was a learner from Waheguru. indeed he was.

I like your explanation, very good ideas, but do you believe Guru Nanak Dev Ji is Vaheguru?

[Kira]

I like your explanation, very good ideas, but do you believe Guru Nanak Dev Ji is Vaheguru?

Afterall a Saint and Waheguru are one and the same

we need to be very careful with terminology. Guru Gobind Singh Ji was very clear that he wasn't Waheguru, but a servant who was one with the lord.

What a brilliant explanation Kira Ji.

Just simple and few words, and you have beautifully said it. I have had the chance to listen the kathas of quite a few gyanis, and read religious scriptures as well, and I think none had said something so logical, so truthful, and in such a very nice way.

But I must say, you are a noble soul, your thoughts, your posts, are the best expressions of what I am saying.

Keep being like that in life, with your positive attitude, and your kindness, and you will acheive a lot with His blessings, means, you will be receptive to His grace.

I also take the opportuniy here, to congratulate all the Sangat in general, as almost all are very good and helpful persons.

Not to name any, but special mention to Simran345 also, who for me is a fantastic and a very good hearted person, and as always, this attitude is what counts in one´s favour.

May Wahiguru bless all.

Sat Sree Akal

You're words are kinds and i thank you for them. But I am imperfect. I try to follow what I write, I'm successful someways someways I am not. I pray that waheguru will help me overcome my weaknesses.

[Akalifauj]

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[Kira]

What is the difference between being a Sikh of Vaheguru and Sikh of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji? Also, Am I only a Sikh of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, when I follow the Gurus Bani and my status changes as I start following Bhagat Kabir ji's Bani, to a sikh of Vaheguru?

Honestly you're asking the wrong person. I'm not a Mahapurkh who can give you a satisfactory answer. what you're doing there is differentiating between Bani. Bhagat Kabir Ji wrote his bani while he was tuned with Waheguru (forgive my use of such words Waheguru).

When we refer to Sikh who do we talk about? we obviously in layman's terms refer to Guru Granth Sahib Ji's followers. Remember the Guru Granth Sahib is a form of the Shabad Guru. The Shabad Guru is the word of god. We're followers of the Word of god.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji's bani includes Bhagat Kabir Ji's so you're question is a bit of a contradiction.

When you said Sikh I was talking purely in layman's terms. We define Sikhs are being followers of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Is this right? really I have no idea myself. Bhagat Kabir was a Sikh, but he wasn't a Sikh like we are. Our gian comes directly from Guru Granth Sahib Ji, We listen,recite, contemplate that and no other scripture. Bhagat Kabir wrote his bani and our Guru Sahib deemed it on the same status as theirs, they added it to the Guru Granth to symbolize that God isn't exclusive only to them. Others have already achieved what we as Sikhs wanted to.

Let me ask you a question. There were clearly other people in gone times who also became one with the Almighty. Would you say they were Sikhs? I don't think they would use the word Sikh lol. That came around during our Guru Nanak Dev Ji's time. Sikh is directly referring to Guru Sahib then. I think it's more right to say they were followers of the Supreme One rather than bring them down to our level and refer to them as Sikhs in the same sense we are.

I hope that helped a little. I'm afraid this is a case of identity crisis, a topic I try to stay clear off lol.

[Singh559]