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Basics Of Sikhi - Anand Karaj (Addressing The Controversy)


Singh559
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Ranjeet Ji I already explained why we need to be extra careful when it comes males from aggressively conversionary Abrahamic faiths which do not have gender equality and where rape of non-Muslim women is permitted in the Quran.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/76978-muslim-getting-married-in-shepherds-bush-gurdwara-this-friday/page-4

If the kids are lost to Sikhi forever despite our best efforts then there is nothing we can do. But we should try our best.

What I am saying is that we should not guarantee that all such children and all future generations are permanently lost from the Sikh Panth by pushing couples elsewhere and forcing them to marry at Churches, Mosques and Mandirs when Sikhi is the undeniable Truth that I confidently feel most children would gravitate towards if they could choose.

If the Sikh bride does not have Anand Karaj, the likelihood is that they will have a registry marriage if it is a white guy.

Our girls never leave their pekheh and generally try to steer their husband's from his own family to her own family.

Therefore any children she has will spend time with their nankeh, going to Akhand Paths, and to various gurdwaraeh functions so they are not actually lost to Sikhi.

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If the Sikh bride does not have Anand Karaj, the likelihood is that they will have a registry marriage if it is a white guy.

Our girls never leave their pekheh and generally try to steer their husband's from his own family to her own family.

Therefore any children she has will spend time with their nankeh, going to Akhand Paths, and to various gurdwaraeh functions so they are not actually lost to Sikhi.

If you genuinely believe Ranjeet Ji that banning such Anand Karaj's rather than using them as an opportunity to educate the white spouse is beneficial to ensuring the children of such marriages become members of the Sikh Panth, then I respect your opinion but I disagree.

All male white spouses won't be like Martin Singh but I genuinely believe they can be the equal sehajdhari Sikhs.

http://www.indiawest.com/news/global_indian/white-sikh-runs-for-house-of-commons-seat-in-canada/article_d762aa9e-4203-11e5-86f1-a3a4c89ec078.html?mode=jqm

However, the rest of what you say above actually supports my conviction that if we permit such Anand Karaj's and use them as an opportunity to educate, connect and engage the couple with the knowledge that they see Sikhi is the Truth and the benefit of their children being given the names Singh and Kaur.

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If you genuinely believe Ranjeet Ji that banning such Anand Karaj's rather than using them as am opportunity to educate the white spouse is beneficial to ensuring the children of such marriages become members of the Sikh Panth, then I respect your opinion but I disagree.

However, the rest of what you say above actually supports my conviction that if we permit such Anand Karaj's and use them as an opportunity to educate, connect and engage the couple with the knowledge that they see Sikhi is the Truth and the benefit of their children being given the names Singh and Kaur.

The non Sikh spouse should be given a course to understand Anand Karaj. If they willing to become Sikh, then no problem have the Anand Karaj.

If they don't agree with it, have a registry marriage.

Simple.

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The non Sikh spouse should be given a course to understand Anand Karaj. If they willing to become Sikh, then no problem have the Anand Karaj.

If they don't agree with it, have a registry marriage.

Simple.

I agree with you regarding the idea of education about Sikhi and it's exactly what I've been saying all along.

But what I'm also saying is that denying them an Anand Karaj will only push people away from Sikhi which is harmful to the Sikh Panth. Aren't we all agreed that Anand Karaj is better for the long term future and togetherness of any two human beings on the planet in comparison to a Church wedding, Hindu Vivaah, Islamic Nikaah or registry marriage? In essence, even if 2 non-Sikhs wish to marry by Anand Karaj that should be welcomed (as it was in the heyday of the Singh Sabha era when hundreds of thousands if not millions came to Sikhi) as it is a good thing and we are de facto accepting them as new Sikhs the minute they bow down before Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.

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If you genuinely believe Ranjeet Ji that banning such Anand Karaj's rather than using them as an opportunity to educate the white spouse is beneficial to ensuring the children of such marriages become members of the Sikh Panth, then I respect your opinion but I disagree.

Why must education be through Anand Karaj? Why can't one learn without getting married? Do you get married in order to complete your degree? If the Non Sikh is unwilling to convert at the time of the marriage, what makes you think they will convert later? You're just fooling yourself.

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I agree with you regarding the idea of education about Sikhi and it's exactly what I've been saying all along.

But what I'm also saying is that denying them an Anand Karaj will only push people away from Sikhi which is harmful to the Sikh Panth. Aren't we all agreed that Anand Karaj is better for any two human beings in comparison to a Church wedding, Hindu Vivaah, Islamic Nikaah or secular registry marriage?

If they still do not want to after Anand Karaj it makes a mockery.

Give them the choice, if it is still no, no Anand Karaj but keep the door open if they do want to take Maharaj ji. They will still go to Gurdwarae for Akhand Paths, Sukhmani Sahib Paths, Anand Karajs, Baisakhi, Bandi Chor Divas and Gurpurabs.

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I would like to ask DTF why he/she votes to like for both sides of the argument.

My own brother (Jagraj Singh from Basics of Sikhi) married my previously white Christian sister in law via an Anand Karaj before this issue came to prominence. My sister in law and nephew are now proud Sikhs but ironically would never have got to this stage via such protests.

By Sunny Hundal

Sukhmani Kaur was Amritdhari at the time they married so I don't understand Sunny's point, its not like they met before taking Amrit. My personal preference is arranged marriage but that's another subject in itself.

Singh559, on 13 Aug 2015 - 18:53, said:snapback.png

You hit the nail on the head with the Granthis and Kirtanis. It's really bad if we start disrespecting them and not see things from their perspective, at the end it comes down to the fault of the committee and those who allow these nastiks to be appointed. Anyone condoning highly disrespectful tone should reevaluate.

We shouldn't have the loser mentality of parroting "at least this, at least that" and not settle for anything lower than perfect in handling this situation because these snakes are trying their best to turn this into a smear campaign via the media.

Another issue that Sikh Council or whatever in the UK needs to take note of is also making sure there is balance and not only a peaceful discussion with the Giani Jis when its a girl from Sikh family, but also the same when it's a male - purely because these hippie weirdos are trying their best to get secularists, libs and other non-punjabi groups to get out their pitch-forks against those in favor of Sikh AK. In reality I don't think it's a big deal, but it would be smart to do this just to establish a stronger case and shutting up the individuals who think it's okay to go sleeping around with random people and getting an Anand Karaj with someone who isn't a Sikh.

I too feel for the Granthis they are treated like dirt, paid less than minimum wage and fear the committee members. In an ideal world, like if we had Gursikhs running the Akal Takhat and our own Desh, they would be protected for walking out and the committees members severely punished for openly flouting the sandesh from Takhat Sahib.

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But what I'm also saying is that denying them an Anand Karaj will only push people away from Sikhi which is harmful to the Sikh Panth. Aren't we all agreed that Anand Karaj is better for the long term future and togetherness of any two human beings on the planet in comparison to a Church wedding, Hindu Vivaah, Islamic Nikaah or registry marriage? In essence, even if 2 non-Sikhs wish to marry by Anand Karaj that should be welcomed (as it was in the heyday of the Singh Sabha era when hundreds of thousands if not millions came to Sikhi) as it is a good thing and we are de facto accepting them as new Sikhs the minute they bow down before Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.

No it won't. This is merely wishful thinking from yourself. Anand Karaj does not guarantee togetherness. Again, more wishful thinking and hyperbole.

You're making lots of assumptions with zero evidence to back it up.

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Why must education be through Anand Karaj?

D = I'm saying that is a good time to ensure it. Obviously education should begin as children

Why can't one learn without getting married?

D = Of course people can learn without being married. But when a couple resolve to marry should we educate them or push them away from Sikhi?

If the Non Sikh is unwilling to convert at the time of the marriage, what makes you think they will convert later?

D= There is no guarantee of course but in the case of sincere spouses they are accepting themselves to be sehajdhari Sikhs at the least by virtue of prostrating down in humility before Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. So why force them to get married at a Church or Mandir and raise their kids most likely as Christians or Hindu's as a result?

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I would like to ask DTF why he votes to like for both sides of the argument.

Inderjit Bhai Sahib I'm unequivocally on one side of the argument. I was reading post after post in opposition to Anand Karaj for erstwhile non-Sikhs knowing that I am a Sikh today as a result of my non-Sikh ancestors coming into Sikhi via Anand Karaj in the 20th century.

But I respect sincere Sikhs who feel like you do yourself and I know you care about Sikhi deeply from when we communicated on the Bhai Gurbaksh Singh thread. But I am honestly sincerely saying that this method of protesting and blocking Anand Karaj's is going to cause demographic oblivion to Diaspora Sikh populations if we blindly continue with it ignoring the Gurmat example of the Anand Karaj of Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji that none of these sehajdhari protestors would have had the himmat to stop.

If we want to fight something the bigger fights are there for us to tackle in the form of drugs, alcohol, female infanticide, biraderi apartheid, cancer, illiteracy and poverty afflicting the Sikh Panth.

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