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Basics Of Sikhi - Anand Karaj (Addressing The Controversy)


Singh559
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^ Him....DTF.. Blame him !!!

This week, when this issue is discussed to death in the media and radio etc and the whole world sees us Sikhs as racist intolerants remember how it was DTF that deliberately ensured the debate the media would get our side of the story from was rigged in such a way that our simple side of the story was not allowed to be articulated....i.e the media would never hear it. Remember the part DTF had in that.

Seriously now DTF, re-read this whole thread from beginning to end. Its clear you've been on some personal mission to ensure Bobby Friction and Sunny Hundal win the argument. I don't know what your motive for that has been, it could be a personal family matter it could be political....but know this: This debate could have armed us Sikhs in the upcoming media and radio debates or it could have armed Bobby Friction and Sunny Hundal. You've gone out of your way here to quickly supress all sides of the Sikh's story and arm Sunny and Bobby. I know what you're up to here.

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Such a simple issue. So easy to explain to the mainstream media.

But here we are. 12 pages long (so far) and all we've done is confused the media. They'll come away from this still not understanding our very basic easy to understand point and so they'll go to Sunny Hundal and Bobby Friction for an explanation and they will get one there.

Are we really that easy to manipulate ?

I mean think about it: It started with mainstream media articles about us protecting the honour of Guru ji in the Gurdwara, the media distorted it in order to portray us as racists and intolerants who don't want and won't allow mixed marriages full stop and then, before you know it the media - Sunny Hundal and Bobby Friction have got us wrapped round their finger so much and so easily they've got us making messages in this debate where we articulate that we don't like our girls marrying white and black fellas. i.e the exact same kind of messages one finds on the right wing hitler worshipping websites. So, the media, Sunny Hundal and Bobby Friction now have exactly the ammunition they were looking for in the debate. Their argument was that Sikh 'thugs' are pretending to protect the honour of the Guru but really its just a front for stopping sikh girls marrying white and black men.

You people, here on this thread, are so stupid you've actually armed your enemies. Well done you muppets.

Does the mainstream media peruse this forum with bated breath looking to weaponize the things we say? Our words hardly carry that much clout.

I haven't perceived these racial undertones you're speaking about Jagsaw. This discussion has been centered on confessional matters. I don't care whether somebody wants to marry a punjabi man or a black man or a white man or a chinese man in a Guru Ghar, So long as he is a Guru Ka Sikh. Otherwise, it should not be allowed. This goes for all those Punjabi nastiks out there too.

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I think you should take time to talk to non Sikhs who have married at the Guru Ghar and see how much piaar they have for Sikhi.

D = Bhai Sahib i believe anybody that is educated about Sikhi will automatically come to have pyaar for Sikhi

I have come across many and not a single one has become Sikh.

D = Bhai Sahib Ji if you mean Amritdhari Sikh then granted the incidences like that are low but I sincerely believe that all those who have married by Anand Karaj and continue to attend Gurdwara's to this day are indeed sehajdhari Sikhs and fellow members of the Sikh Panth.

Yes some of them come to the Gurdwara on main Gurpurabs to eat langar but that's as far as it goes, they remain detached from Sikhi.

D = I respect that they attend Gurdwara. I consider all who attend Gurdwara as fellow Sikhs. if they remained detached from Sikhi that isn't helped by us considering them non-Sikhs when they have an Anand Karaj and attend Gurdwara on Gurpurabs!

If one of them is religious the kids adopt that faith, usually of the mother.

D = We should strive that all children of such marriages are members of the Sikh Panth

Please ponder on this pangti regarding bowing/seeing Guru Ji:

Satgur noo sabh ko vekhdaa, jeta jagat sansaar

Dithe mukhat na hovee, jichar shabad na kare vichaar

D = Exactly Bhai Sahib i think the Gurbani substantiates my point completely (particularly in respect of only Akaal Purakh recognising who is a bhekhi and the vast numbers of so-called Sikhs that do not believe in Sikhi sincerely and drink after their Anand Karaj that we never bother to protest against).

Do we know where the word Sehajdhari came from, where was it first used, please advise?

D = Bhai Sahib i suspect that you might feel that sehajdhari's are non-Sikhs but I feel they are integral members of the Sikh Panth.

The AK is hardly the best place to educate people on Sikhi. This should happen beforehand.

D = Absolutely agreed. But when a couple are ready to get married it is a bit late to worry about what we as a community should have done from long before.

Nothing more to say for me, brick wall/head.

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. A member in my own family recently had a sham wedding in gurdwara, i did not attend it, and asked her, wat will her kids be? Will they be sikhs? She could even give me a straight answer, and tried to fobb me off. Wat pyar they got for sikhi, if they marry non sikhs, then dont raise sikh kids?

Big Respect to you. I too have refused to take part in these sham weddings.

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I mean think about it: It started with mainstream media articles about us protecting the honour of Guru ji in the Gurdwara

D = Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is Jagat Guru - the Universal Truth for all humanity. Guru Sahib's honour is beyond comparison and unbreakable. Two people where one of the spouses belongs to a previous non-Sikh background becoming a new Sikh via Anand Karaj in Guru Sahib's presence does not constitute dishonour or Beadbi to Guru Sahib. The bigger Beadbi is effectively alienating someone Sikh and their children and future generations away from Sikhi forever.

, the media distorted it in order to portray us as racists and intolerants who don't want and won't allow mixed marriages full stop and then, before you know it the media - Sunny Hundal and Bobby Friction have got us wrapped round their finger so much and so easily they've got us making messages in this debate where we articulate that we don't like our girls marrying white and black fellas. i.e the exact same kind of messages one finds on the right wing hitler worshipping websites. So, the media, Sunny Hundal and Bobby Friction now have exactly the ammunition they were looking for in the debate. Their argument was that Sikh 'thugs' are pretending to protect the honour of the Guru but really its just a front for stopping sikh girls marrying white and black men.

D = Ironic because I sensed racist undertones in your description of a Jamaican (new Sikh) groom on the Shepherd's Bush thread.

You people, here on this thread, are so stupid you've actually armed your enemies. Well done you muppets. and I'm talking mostly to DTF here as its clear he or she has some personal family loyalty thing about standing up for mixed marriages in the Gurdwara....seems to be on a personal mission to ensure Bobby Friction and Sunny Hundal win the debate.

D = I couldn't care less for Hundal or Friction but the future of the Sikh Panth means everything to me and I am 100% passionate about it. I think alienating couples and their children and future generations is a mistake beyond belief. I take it very personally as I view the people protesting such marriages as de facto being against my existence, against my family's existence and insulting the Anand Karaj of Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Ji Maharaj with Mata Sulakhani Ji.

Him DTF.. Blame him !!!

= LOL

This week, when this issue is discussed to death in the media and radio etc and the whole world sees us Sikhs as racist intolerants remember how it was DTF that deliberately ensured the debate the media would get our side of the story from was rigged in such a way that our simple side of the story was not allowed to be articulated....i.e the media would never hear it. Remember the part DTF had in that.

D = LOL i despise anti-Sikh media. But we Sikhs are hardly helping when we present them ammunition to attack us with on a plate. Thanks to people like yourself the most tolerant and most inclusive faith on Earth is now negatively perceived by millions of newsprint readers as a microcosm of Islamic fascism and fantacism. So well done for your part in presenting the poorest possible image of Sikhs and ensuring that thousands of couples up and down the country and internationally won't even bother with Anand Karaj's from now on but instead choose Church weddings and Hindu vivaahs instead and not raising their children with any connection to Sikhi. Even if you have prevented one future child from being a future Sikh I hope you are personally proud of your part in that.

Seriously now DTF, re-read this whole thread from beginning to end. Its clear you've been on some personal mission to ensure Bobby Friction and Sunny Hundal win the argument.

D = Not at all. Hundal and Friction mean nothing to me. But yes the future of the Sikh Panth means everything to me and I believe what I do passionately.

I don't know what your motive for that has been, it could be a personal family matter it could be political....

D = It shouldn't be rocket science: Protesting and blocking a couple's Anand Karaj and ensuring that their children and future generations have no connection to the Sikhi will lead to the demographic oblivion of our Panth in Diaspora populations and I strongly do not want that to happen. You shouldn't either if you care about Sikhi.

but know this: This debate could have armed us Sikhs in the upcoming media and radio debates or it could have armed Bobby Friction and Sunny Hundal. You've gone out of your way here to quickly supress all sides of the Sikh's story and arm Sunny and Bobby.

D = This issue goes to the core of where the Sikh Panth's focus should be. It has nothing to do with secular Sikhs trying to win brownie points from their media employers. I'm not paid nothing by anybody. I've gone to work late and come back late as a consequence today too because I am passionate about this issue and it makes my blood boil that when it comes to female infanticide, biraderi apartheid, drugs, alcohol, cancer, illiteracy or poverty afflicting our community there is none of the same furore but when it comes to this issue of blocking a couple from an Anand Karaj and thus alienating them and their children and their future generations away from Sikhi then people like yourself see that as some kind of pathetic achievement to celebrate and toast.

D = Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj bought Mata Sulakhani Ji into Sikhi via Anand Karaj. None of the protestors would dare to criticise Guru Sahib for freeing Mata Sulakhani Ji from the falsehoods of her former belief system via Anand Karaj. And so did many of our bravest shaheeds similarly bring their spouses into Sikhi via Anand Karaj. I daresay that each and every member of this forum if they had the ability to look into their own family tree has at least one ancestor (if not more) that would have been non-Sikh prior to coming into the Sikh Panth via Anand Karaj. The result is that the Sikh Panth has a populations of millions today despite 90% of our population being killed in the Vada Ghallughara of 1762 in which the Muslims had decimated our population down to a few thousands. If Sikhs had been restricted from marrying others from those times then our Panth's population would not have reached the number in millions it is today. But we need the Panth's numbers to grow more and be 100million strong in this century rather than reduced to a minority in Punjab by the time of the 2021 census as a consequence of 5million current day Sikhs being removed from the Sikh Panth and placed into Hindutva slaves fold via Balmiki and Dera Ballan apartheid mandirs.

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The laavan is defined for a practicing sikh, and here is how Gurbani defines a sikh:

gur sathigur kaa jo sikh akhaaeae s bhalakae out(h) har naam dhhiaavai ||
One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru, the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.

The shabad further describes the sikh as someone who makes profound effort to reciting naam for the rest of the day and night. Punjabis are not even close or interested in practicing the discipline of a sikh. And frankly, they show enough disrespect to Guru Granth Sahib Ji already. Now just imagine how damaging it would be to allow interfaith marriages, marriages which do not at least come from a sikh background. Would we start accommodating the Gurdwara service to suit their needs which are not aligned with sikhi? Worst enough, most of the people managing the Gurdwara are usually not religious and to them this is all business. That is partially our fault that we have allowed these kind-of-people managing the Gurdwaray in the first place and allowing interfaith marriages can only make it worse.

Those concerned about growing sikh numbers. Personally, I do not care about numbers growing. I believe keeping Sikhs culturally integrated and focussing on quality over quantity is the most beneficial in the long-run as the identity and sikh culture will become more apparent and rich. Whereas, allowing interfaith marriages will only dilute Sikhs even more and will confuse the identity and discipline of a sikh.

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The laavan is defined for a practicing sikh, and here is how Gurbani defines a sikh:

gur sathigur kaa jo sikh akhaaeae s bhalakae out(h) har naam dhhiaavai ||

One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru, the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.

Those concerned about growing sikh numbers. Personally, I do not care about numbers growing. I believe keeping Sikhs culturally integrated and focussing on quality over quantity is the most beneficial in the long-run as the identity and sikh culture will become more apparent and rich. Whereas, allowing interfaith marriages will only dilute Sikhs even more and will confuse the identity and discipline of a sikh.

Well said that person. In life anything when mixed becomes diluted, put some orange squash into water what do you get!. You have said it bang on and what you say is correct. This whole topic and the people who support these mixed marriages are those who are the pakandi singh in the temples who want a bigger merc or fatter BMW. Then there are those who want to disrupt our faith and bring all these other illegitimates into it and try and bring us down. The muslims and hindus are loving this and there are a few of them on here aren’t there some more obvious than others.

If these bimbos want to marry these people out of the religion we can not and should not stop them, however we can and should stop them doing it with an anad karag. They only want to do this so they can wear there lengas and show in front of the friends. They have no comprehension of sikhi what so ever and probably never been to a guru khar in there life. So we should only allow Sikh to marry Sikh and that is simple really isn’t it. How can you marry out of religion and then expect your children to follow a certain religion. They are so confused and have no real direction. This is absurd and utter nonsense and those supporting it are those who are trying to bring our faith down and finish us off. We will become a faith of illegitimates if this carries on. I am in full support of those who have taken this bull by the horns.

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