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Basics Of Sikhi - Anand Karaj (Addressing The Controversy)


Singh559
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Why must education be through Anand Karaj? Why can't one learn without getting married? Do you get married in order to complete your degree? If the Non Sikh is unwilling to convert at the time of the marriage, what makes you think they will convert later? You're just fooling yourself.

Stop banging your head against the wall. He will never understand no matter what you tell him.

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Punjabis are not even close or interested in practicing the discipline of a sikh. And frankly, they show enough disrespect to Guru Granth Sahib Ji already. Now just imagine how damaging it would be to allow interfaith marriages, marriages which do not at least come from a sikh background.

Those concerned about growing sikh numbers. Personally, I do not care about numbers growing. I believe keeping Sikhs culturally integrated and focussing on quality over quantity is the most beneficial in the long-run as the identity and sikh culture will become more apparent and rich. Whereas, allowing interfaith marriages will only dilute Sikhs even more and will confuse the identity and discipline of a sikh.

Singhni MiriPiri Ji i always respect what you say but Guru Sahib is not just there for ideal Sikhs (Gurmukhs). Guru Sahib are Jagat Guru for the guidance of all humanity whether Amritdhari or Sehajdhari, Black or White, Punjabi or Tamil. The whole point about these different background marriages is that via education, Anand Karaj and ongoing Sangat support we can "anchor" the erstwhile non-Sikh partner firmly within the Sikh Panth as a new fellow Sikh so that the couple see the benefit of raising their children as Sikhs. Driving the couple away so that they raise their children firmly as non-Sikhs (as people who were denied the blessing of Guru Sahib on their marriage) will leave our Diaspora community half of what it was within a couple of generations.

I respect the sincerity of why you feel it's better for us to keep low numbers but be integrated. However, the reality of the last 70years proves that the concept has been a massive failure. Punjabi Sikhs have one language and one Guru. We should be rock solid as a unified fist. But by abandoning all the tens of millions of sehajdhari non-Punjabi Sikhs as we did via the 1950 Maryada (to the delight of Nehru, Congress and Hindutva forces) and ignoring Dr Ambedkar's desire to join the Sikh Panth (a decision which resulted in ten million plus Hindu's turning to Buddhism in the last 70years) the end result has been that our population percentage in India is lower than it was in 1947. Furthermore, it has made us Punjabi Sikhs insular so that we we will fight our own brethren over jatha, samparda, biraderi, sect etc at the drop of a hat. Instead of us being unified we have fractured in the worst possible way (as seen in our Gurughars) with our Hindutva opponents latest divide and rule tactic against us being to try convert 5million or so current day Sikhs into tomorrow's Hindutva slaves votebank via Balmiki and Dera Ballan apartheid mandirs (that we are doing nothing about). The less insular we become and the less Punjabism-centric we become via a more diverse Sikh Panth with more non-Punjabi's within our ranks the less we as Punjabi's will fight amongst ourselves and see the bigger picture more. The (Saudi) Arabs who enslaved half the world haven't lost their culture one bit despite being a 1% minority of Muslims and neither have the 4% so-called high caste Hindu minority that pimp Hindutva been overrun by absorbing the tens of millions of erstwhile sehajdhari non-Punjabi Sikhs into the Hindu fold. The Khalsa Panth is already all about quality over quantity but in relation to the wider Panth the opposite applies for common sense demographic reasons that our defeats in 1849, 1947 and 1984 purely due to low numbers quite clearly show.

Then there are those who want to disrupt our faith and bring all these other illegitimates into it and try and bring us down.

= No child or human being is illegitimate. That's an Abrahamic and Hindutva concept that Sikhi rejects. But year after year cutting off an ever increasing minority off from Sikhi is the best way to bring the Panth's numbers down.

The muslims and hindus are loving this and there are a few of them on here aren’t there some more obvious than others.

= Of course they are. The Muslims are happy that by us copying their idiotic stance we add respectability to their outdated religion. Muslim men can marry Christian and Jewish women at any Mosque but you wish to alienate the children of Sikh fathers that do the same. The Muslims also realise that by virtue of the fact they have 1,500 million followers worldwide they can maintain numbers off the backs of immigration combined with a higher birth rate together with honour killings to enforce what they want for numerical supremacy. Nevertheless, year after year more and more Muslim women that are financially independent and not fully brainwashed by Islam still do decide to marry out. The Hindu's are of course also loving it because every Anand Karaj we block is another couple that can proceed with a Hindu Vivaah and thereby feel that a Mandir is a better and more welcoming place to take their children to rather than a Gurdwara.

If these bimbos want to marry these people out of the religion we can not and should not stop them, however we can and should stop them doing it with an anad karag.

= If you can't stop people from marrying, why alienate them from their local Gurdwara when they desire an Anand Karaj thereby ensuring that their children are denied the possibility to learn about Sikhi?

So we should only allow Sikh to marry Sikh

= Sounds very good in theory but you are ignoring the fact that in the UK 99.3% of the surrounding population are non-Sikhs so it is utterly inevitable (as assimilation increases over time) that people will find partners that don't also have Punjabi Sikh parents. Anand Karaj precisely means that the erstwhile non-Sikh becomes a new Sikh, ensuring that both spouses are indeed Sikh. Or are you saying you know better than Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj when Guru Sahib married Mata Sulakhani Ji via the 1st Anand Karaj thereby bringing her into Sikhi.

How can you marry out of religion and then expect your children to follow a certain religion.

= There are hundreds of thousands if not over a million Sikhs out there with a non-Sikh parent but firmly part of the Sikh Panth in 2015. It is statistically more than likely that everybody on this forum has at least one non-Sikh ancestor (if not more) that was bought into Sikhi via Anand Karaj just like Mata Sulakhani Ji was in the 1st ever Anand Karaj by Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj.

those supporting it are those who are trying to bring our faith down and finish us off.

= The best way to decrease Sikh numbers is by blocking Anand Karaj's and alienating couples and their children and future generations away from Sikhi.

We will become a faith of illegitimates if this carries on.

= No human being is an illegitimate. Only Hindu's, Christians and Muslims espouse such pathetic terms to describe innocent children.

First of all, DTF, I've already explained succintly on this very thread how one is not allowed to have a wedding in a Christian Church without first confirming one's Christianity.

= That may be so in Catholic or Church of England churches but if you are not aware of the plethora of non-mainstream Christian Churches that will readily accept all the couples we block from Anand Karaj, then I'm afraid you are unaware of the ground realities and are in effect espousing deliberately and wantonly gifting the children of such marriages to the Christian fold (in your desire to copy the Christians, Muslims and Jews because "they do it").

= I don't agree with Hundal or Friction lumping peaceful Sikhs together with the Qazi's, Priests and Rabbi's of primitive religions which condone Slavery such as Christianity, Judaism and Islam. You however wish to copy the rules of these same outdated and irrelevant Abrahamic religions which condone slavery and barbarity and have bought such unparalleled misery and suffering to the World in contrast to the Sarbat da Bhala that Sikhi is all about.

And remember DTF, in terms of your argument about numbers and assimilation etc....the problem is 1000% worse among the Jews than it is for us.

= And that's why Jewish demographics will be vastly diminished in their Diaspora precisely because of their exclusionary attitude treating Judaism as an ethnic birthright. Sikhi in contrast is a universal faith.

Now, the last time I told you Bobby Friction and Sunny Hundal are Terrorists you replied

= Actually my response to that previously was that before they slander peaceful Sikhs they should perhaps study Islamic State and al Qaeda to understand what terrorists actually are, so please don't divert the discussion from the salient point that blocking such Anand Karaj's will result in huge numbers of couples and their children and future generations being alienated away from Sikhi. If Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj bought Mata Sulakhani Ji into Sikhi via the 1st ever Anand Karaj how can you argue against Guru Nanak Dev Ji's example?

This kalyugi world will pressure us to compromise on our Rahit and principles and Sikhi, but we need to stay strong.

= Bhai Sahib Ji nothing can make us as individuals compromise our Sikhi. The Khalsa Panth should remain niyara no matter what. Allowing couples to have an Anand Karaj and raise their children and future generations as Sikhs will strengthen our Panth, as opposed to weaken it by pushing such couples off to weddings at Mandirs and into the Hindu fold (to cite one example) much to the delight of our Hindutva opponents.

Now is the time for damage control.

= Bhai Sahib Ji that is exactly the point. Far from being damage control by protesting and blocking such Anand Karaj's we will only end up decreasing our own Panth's numbers year after year which benefits our Panth in no way. The other alternative is to use the couples desire for an Anand Karaj as a way to educate them about Sikhi, welcome the erstwhile non-Sikh partner as a new Sikh via education and Anand Karaj and via ongoing Sangat support and positive interaction ensure that the couples children are decidedly raised as Sikhs as everything about Sikhi is true, everything about Sikhi is for Sarbat da Bhala and it is the natural faith for all of humanity.

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Singhni MiriPiri Ji i always respect what you say but Guru Sahib is not just there for ideal Sikhs (Gurmukhs). Guru Sahib are Jagat Guru for the guidance of all humanity whether Amritdhari or Sehajdhari, Black or White, Punjabi or Tamil. The whole point about these different background marriages is that via education, Anand Karaj and ongoing Sangat support we can "anchor" the erstwhile non-Sikh partner firmly within the Sikh Panth as a new fellow Sikh so that the couple see the benefit of raising their children as Sikhs. Driving the couple away so that they raise their children firmly as non-Sikhs (as people who were denied the blessing of Guru Sahib on their marriage) will leave our Diaspora community half of what it was within a couple of generations.

I respect the sincerity of why you feel it's better for us to keep low numbers but be integrated. However, the reality of the last 70years proves that the concept has been a massive failure. Punjabi Sikhs have one language and one Guru. We should be rock solid as a unified fist. But by abandoning all the tens of millions of sehajdhari non-Punjabi Sikhs as we did via the 1950 Maryada (to the delight of Nehru, Congress and Hindutva forces) and ignoring Dr Ambedkar's desire to join the Sikh Panth (a decision which resulted in ten million plus Hindu's turning to Buddhism in the last 70years) the end result has been that our population percentage in India is lower than it was in 1947. Furthermore, it has made us Punjabi Sikhs insular so that we we will fight our own brethren over jatha, samparda, biraderi, sect etc at the drop of a hat. Instead of us being unified we have fractured in the worst possible way (as seen in our Gurughars) with our Hindutva opponents latest divide and rule tactic against us being to try convert 5million or so current day Sikhs into tomorrow's Hindutva slaves votebank via Balmiki and Dera Ballan apartheid mandirs (that we are doing nothing about). The less insular we become and the less Punjabism-centric we become via a more diverse Sikh Panth with more non-Punjabi's within our ranks the less we as Punjabi's will fight amongst ourselves and see the bigger picture more. The (Saudi) Arabs who enslaved half the world haven't lost their culture one bit despite being a 1% minority of Muslims and neither have the 4% so-called high caste Hindu minority that pimp Hindutva been overrun by absorbing the tens of millions of erstwhile sehajdhari non-Punjabi Sikhs into the Hindu fold. The Khalsa Panth is already all about quality over quantity but in relation to the wider Panth the opposite applies for common sense demographic reasons that our defeats in 1849, 1947 and 1984 purely due to low numbers quite clearly show.

I understand what you are saying but I strongly believe our priority is to respect Guru Sahib. We are gambling with Guru Sahib in the hope of increasing numbers while more importantly we are at the risk of disrespecting Guru Sahib. Giving non-sikhs authority to marry in a Gurdwara can damage the current system we have in place to ensure Guru Sahib is valued, especially since we initially have senseless people managing most Gurdwaray. As Guru Granth Sahib Jee is unspoken speech, many people believe they can take advantage of Guru Sahib by changing the rules when Laavan has made it clear it is designed for a sikh, not someone who merely bows to Guru Granth Sahib Jee.

Although I’m not concerned about numbers, I want to make it clear that people can only be drawn to sikhi by witnessing a true khalsa in image and actions, and that is not limited to attending the gurdwara. When I was in secondary school, many people at that time were unaware of the actual image of a sikh and were shown images of Punjabi weddings which they had mistaken for Sikh weddings. If you allow interfaith marriages, now we will have interfaith marriages as part of sikhi. You are furthering the chance of someone seeing and understanding the true image of a sikh.

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