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Guru Nanak - Warrior origin?


Akaali
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The Jot that was passed on is the same, but the physical body obviously is not. The Vidya still has to be passed on,

What is the Jot exactly? How was vidya passed from Guru Harkrishan Ji to Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji, who barely met each other physically?

also Gurbani that was written had to be passed on, otherwise there would be no reason for Guru Angad Dev Ji to collect all the Gurbani and Guru Gobind Singh Ji would just need to sit down and dictate all the Gurbani that the Gurus contributed to (this actually happened as a family with the original Adi Granth would not pass on to Guru Gobind Singh Ji, therefore had to dictate all of the Gurbani, I think to Bhai Mani Singh/Baba Deep Singh).

Do you see how you've contradicted yourself?

However, I understand that Baba Buddha Ji was Guru Sahibs 'teacher' from a sansaari point of view and accordingly, it would appear that they taught Guru Ji shastervidya, among other things. It's all Waheguru's khel.

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The Jot that was passed on is the same, but the physical body obviously is not. The Vidya still has to be passed on,

What is the Jot exactly? How was vidya passed from Guru Harkrishan Ji to Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji, who barely met each other physically?

also Gurbani that was written had to be passed on, otherwise there would be no reason for Guru Angad Dev Ji to collect all the Gurbani and Guru Gobind Singh Ji would just need to sit down and dictate all the Gurbani that the Gurus contributed to (this actually happened as a family with the original Adi Granth would not pass on to Guru Gobind Singh Ji, therefore had to dictate all of the Gurbani, I think to Bhai Mani Singh/Baba Deep Singh).

Do you see how you've contradicted yourself?

However, I understand that Baba Buddha Ji was Guru Sahibs 'teacher' from a sansaari point of view and accordingly, it would appear that they taught Guru Ji shastervidya, among other things. It's all Waheguru's khel.

I don't think I have. Maybe I haven't explained properly.

What is the Jot exactly? How was vidya passed from Guru Harkrishan Ji to Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji, who barely met each other physically?

The Jot is the Jot that Guru Nanak Dev Ji came down with. Can't be explained in words, but description is given in all of Japji Sahib. Read Japji Sahib and do vichar. Also read Kirtan Sohila.

They didn't have to meet. Guru Arjan Dev Ji had given Sri Adi Granth authority as authentic, due to the fact people around that time were randomly claiming that their own writing was Gurbani etc.

Do you see how you've contradicted yourself?

Theres no contradiction. Guru Gobind Singh Ji had vidya and knowledge of Gurbani as he had been reading and doing vichar on it his whole life.

The family refused to pass over Sri Adi Granth, so as Guru Gobind Singh knew Gurbani anyway, it wasn't as if he did not have the vidya, therefore compiling Guru Granth Sahib Ji Saroop kant.

Hope that makes sense!

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isn't Buddha dal named so because there were basically buddhe (oldies) in it? and the younger ones were in taruna dal?

not dat dass noes of...buddha daal was created as baba buddha jee (soruce: panth prakash was knwon as baba budda jee da dal) was the commandar of the faujan @ the time of 6th paatishaah,

dal khalsa is the both akalee faujan together..

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not dat dass noes of...buddha daal was created as baba buddha jee (soruce: panth prakash was knwon as baba budda jee da dal) was the commandar of the faujan @ the time of 6th paatishaah,

dal khalsa is the both akalee faujan together..

Does the panth parkash actually say that or is that something you've just heard?

The reason i ask is, that during katha a few months back, im sure the kathavachak mentioned the names of 2 possibly rajput warriors who taught guru hargobind sahib ji how to fight. It appears that their names are clearly mentioned in the pothi's. I cant recall any detail im afraid.

The only person iv heard that suggests that the budha dal etc was created by baba budha ji is nidar. All other katha, books i have read suggest that it was nawab kapoor singh ji who made the 2 dal's. Nidar has argued that the name 'budha dal' was used loosely to describe the army of guru hargobind sahib ji. Im not sure if any of this is actually based on what is written in any of the pothi's used for sikh history though.

Also while i totally understand that not all of our history was written down, is there actually anything to back up the theory about guru nanak dev ji passing on shahstarvidiya etc? Again the reason i ask is that before nidar introduced this theory, i had never come across this at all. But in recent years it has started appearing as this particular piece of history was always there. Im just asking whether this is the case, and whether any other histrorians, kathavackahs, mahapursh etc have done simlar vichar, or are we just assuming that it is correct because nidar has said that it is?

do the pothis actually say that baba budha ji was a commander (and hence i would assume fought in the battles?) in the army, does it also give the names of the other commanders, generals etc?

sorry one more point, i also recall hearing of names of guru gobind singhs ji's weaponary instructors, bad memory means i cant recall details again!

ps to say guri ji was taught is really that wrong, we all know that guru nanak dev ji went to school where he excelled at all subjects and started teaching the teachers. Just depends on how you look at it.

Just to add the above are just questions which im hoping someone will answer and not attacks.

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not dat dass noes of...buddha daal was created as baba buddha jee (soruce: panth prakash was knwon as baba budda jee da dal) was the commandar of the faujan @ the time of 6th paatishaah,

dal khalsa is the both akalee faujan together..

Does the panth parkash actually say that or is that something you've just heard?

The reason i ask is, that during katha a few months back, im sure the kathavachak mentioned the names of 2 possibly rajput warriors who taught guru hargobind sahib ji how to fight. It appears that their names are clearly mentioned in the pothi's. I cant recall any detail im afraid.

The only person iv heard that suggests that the budha dal etc was created by baba budha ji is nidar. All other katha, books i have read suggest that it was nawab kapoor singh ji who made the 2 dal's. Nidar has argued that the name 'budha dal' was used loosely to describe the army of guru hargobind sahib ji. Im not sure if any of this is actually based on what is written in any of the pothi's used for sikh history though.

Also while i totally understand that not all of our history was written down, is there actually anything to back up the theory about guru nanak dev ji passing on shahstarvidiya etc? Again the reason i ask is that before nidar introduced this theory, i had never come across this at all. But in recent years it has started appearing as this particular piece of history was always there. Im just asking whether this is the case, and whether any other histrorians, kathavackahs, mahapursh etc have done simlar vichar, or are we just assuming that it is correct because nidar has said that it is?

do the pothis actually say that baba budha ji was a commander (and hence i would assume fought in the battles?) in the army, does it also give the names of the other commanders, generals etc?

sorry one more point, i also recall hearing of names of guru gobind singhs ji's weaponary instructors, bad memory means i cant recall details again!

ps to say guri ji was taught is really that wrong, we all know that guru nanak dev ji went to school where he excelled at all subjects and started teaching the teachers. Just depends on how you look at it.

Just to add the above are just questions which im hoping someone will answer and not attacks.

jee dass also herd it in katha thats what ritten in panth prakash, guroo kirpa kareh, hpefully i shud sooner or later get a panth prakash pothee sahib nd confirm it 100%...

about the ting of shastarvidy and raagvidya, to me its true...ive never herd it from niddar.. needa hve i eva chatted to him, however i no alot of sangat who said that, from all sorts of backrounds, some do however disagree bout the raagvidya part..

to me it seems like..right.. if u get me..maharaj jee giving us an solid heritage,and solid skills which we shud not forget, even till this day will help us. raag vidya nd shastarvidya nd amazin skills and dass touches the feet to thoose who hve learned and clocked em..

hanjee the akalee panth dal khalsa. did get divided into 2 by nawab kapoor jee, and thats how they stand today. however shromanee akalee buddha dal, is stil the most the senior and also the main desision maker for the nihangs, they give nishan sahibs out to other small daals.. baba biddi chand da daal..etc...

akaaaaaaloooooooooo

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You may be right, as i said i havent heard that sakhi mentioned in katha, but then i havent heard the entire katha by any means! Maybe someone who has read the entire pothi can comment?

My mention of nidar was saying that prior to him saying this story a few years ago i had never come across it at all. Only since then has it seemed to have gained popularity. Im not saying its not true, im just trying to see if this is an actual documented history or something that people have passed down orally. Could be just me of course and my vastly limited knowledge!

And if i were to play the devils advocate i could perhaps say that much of the raag vidiya was already in existance before guru nanak dev ji went to sachkhand during time he spent in the river. My limited knowledge of raag is that the gurus created a number of new raags and changed the way that they were used in relation to bhagti and bani. However many of the raags and the science behind them had been with the world for a long time.

The same could be said of the martial techniques. Many of the techniques can be found in different styles around the world. So is it right to say that guru nanak dev ji brought these 2 things with him from sachkhand? Is it not that the gurus taught the best and most effective system, or is it to say that they created a whole new system?

The fact that guru nanak dev ji brought back gurbani is undisputed as there is nothing to compare to gurbani and it is unique. Gurbani and sakhi's bacl up this fact that guru ji brought bani back. However with the other points, again is that actually what is said to have happened or have we just started to add bits to the original story?

Sorry if these are odd questions and i am open to the fact that i may be 100% wrong, am just hoping somebody can suggest a conclusive answer to these q's and those in my prev post.

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