Sikhi And Wealth

[JagsawSingh]

A word of advice: If your'e a blighty bandar like me, who thinks he (and indeed does) speak a wonderfull colloqial rustic rural punjabi NEVER EVER, when conversing with anyone actually from Punjab, try and explain the old/new Testament parable of it "being easier to thread a camel through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to reach the kingdom of heaven".

I tried.

I failed.

I tried because I was trying to articulate how we are valuing the rich man more than the poor man who is rich in his heart.

So I translated the parable. They all looked at me like I was a retarded simpleton and started asking questions (in Punjabi) like "what kind of mental person would try and thread a camel through the eye of a needle?" and "how the hell can someone be so stupid that he thinks picking up a camel is possible?".

It went on and on. I quickly regretted even attempting to translate this parable into Punjabi but even then the besti was not complete. They kept going.

One minute, in their eyes, I was a man of respect "doing Phd" and the next, simply by embarking on this terrible terrible mistake, I lost all respect. I became nothing more than a man that thinks it is possible to pick a camel up and poke it through a tiny needle.

Thats the moral of that story. Punjabis will never get to the bit about it being difficult for a rich man to reach the kingdom of heaven. You will lose all Punjabis (and your respect) the very moment you mention a 'camel' and trying to literaly thread it through a tiny hole. So, because I care for you all as my brothers and sisters I advise you all to never make the same mistake I made. NEVER EVER try and relate the camel, eye of the needle and the the rich man scenario to a Sikh from Punjab. For your own sake's don't do it.

But, seeing how most of you are like me (not with the same thinking and mindset but with the similar western born mindset) I feel you'll be able to at understand what I was trying to get at. The point I was going to make to them, but never got to that stage because I became an epic fool, is that we respect the rich man too much. I wanted to explain the deeper meaning of the parable, articulating the fact that the rich man fails to reach the kingdom of heaven not because he is rich but because the richness massages his ego and false pride.

I remember when I was a teenager having a similar conversation with an auntie (amritdhari) and I'll never forget how she quoted the fact that Sri Gobind Singh Ji was so rich, had the finest clothes and the finest horses...ie the finest things....that the Sikhs that have those things are closer to HIM. This left me despondent but I quickly realised that the mentality of the average Sikh from Punjab is to think like this.

Now here's the thing. I got married in Punjab. My one and only condition for marriage was the girl should be from a Sikh family that is not rich, has suffered from the Indian progroms and would benefit from me. It gave me a sense of worth. It gave me purpose, and I thank the Lord for giving me the opportunity for doing this. But, I look around at all the rich boys and girls from really really Gursikh chardi-kala families in the UK and Canada...western born...and active in standing up for Sikh rights...and I can't help thinking how come exactly 0% of them has married a beautifull Singhni from the widows colony in Delhi ? How come, even though 99% of the beautifull daughters of Sri Gobind Singh Ji, i.e daughters and grandaughters of the shaheeds of 1984 onwards, are living in poverty and suffering, exactly 0% of our UK and Canada born Gursikhs have married any of them ?

Basic Maths : 100% of them preaching about the suffering of the family of the shaheeds yet 0% of them marrying one of them thus helping them.

Advanced Maths : I've never been any good at Maths but in this instance even I, who is rubbish at Maths can confidently say it doesn't add up.

But every maths equation must have answer.

The answer is money, greed and riches.

But, as the thread implies, we Sikhs of Punjabi heritage have an inherent problem that goes beyond basic maths problems.

Punjab and Sikhi's biggest problem is the way that the Badal clan 'keeps it in the family' and has kept Punjab on it's knees by accumulating power by marriage.

So what do these western born anti-Badal Gursikhs teach us when they embark on their marraige liasons with other rich Gursikh familes, as they always do ?

The answer is that you should never attempt to explain how it is easier to thread a camel through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to reach the kingdom of heaven.

[Guest]

You are becoming one of my favourite posters.

[Balkaar]

-

[MisterrSingh]

I heard katha on the radio on this very subject a couple of days ago. The Giani Ji was discussing the role of wealth, money, and status in Sikh history (the accounts of Bhai Lalo and Malik Bhago, etc) and he graduated to a more philosophical angle about the nature of wealth itself. I thought to myself, "Here we go, you'll never hear a Sikh say money is bad for the soul, lol. Giani Ji probably retires to a luxurious multi-storied kothi in Chandigarh or somewhere similar when he returns home from his religious duties," but I became quite annoyed with my cynicism and decided to pay attention to what Giani Ji was saying.

He mentioned that wealth in itself isn't necessarily evil or undesirable. He said that problems arise not due to the existence of money, but the failings in human nature that cause changes in our mentality when we are in pursuit of wealth or when we gain vast amounts of it. He went onto say that whilst it may seem on the surface that the causal event of developing ego, an unsympathetic demeanour, arrogance, etc, is due to wealth accumulation, but it is actually a weakness in mentality and a lack of enlightenment that changes a person for the worse who finds themselves surrounded by riches.

[simran345]

It's not the wealth that changes a person, it's the ahankar that one starts to possess that changes a personality.

The wealth is also a daat according to one's karm, but it's about how one can maintain it so they do not forget God and humanity.

When the ego of the wealth takes over, the soul becomes empty or reduced of the qualities one once had. But to be able to balance, is also with Gods grace. For example there are two families i know who are very wealthy, one who don't have ahankar and treat others as themselves, go to India and clean the "naaliah", gutters in their pind, and it reflects upon their children too. But the other doesn't care of nobody but themselves due to the wealth.

Also another that drives an old car, but can afford a Ferrari. Why? Because wealth made his soul empty. One would never think he had the wealth, but the qualities of s humble person are still there.

Why are they different as both have wealth ?

Akal and cherishing Gods name keeps the first family stable as they haven't forgotten what they were before they came wealthy, whereas the other family have as wealth came, the ahankar took over, and they forgot their past.

[ms514]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

There is a sakhi about Guru Nanak Sahib telling an individual to take a needle to the afterlife. The individual responded that it is impossible. Guru Sahib responded that if you cannot take this tiny needle to the afterlife, how will you take all of your riches. They may associate with that better.

Agreed - Sikhs say a lot of things. We are becoming a Panth of speeches and slogans, not of action. Guru Sahib bless this Panth with the jeevans of olden Gursikhs.

[JagsawSingh]

There is a sakhi about Guru Nanak Sahib telling an individual to take a needle to the afterlife. The individual responded that it is impossible. Guru Sahib responded that if you cannot take this tiny needle to the afterlife, how will you take all of your riches. They may associate with that better.

Thats a very good sakhi ms514, but I think it differs from the abrahamic proverb as it does not clarify the fact that generally, the rich person is spiritually poorer than the poor person.

Growing up, I used to put the issue within our community down to the fact that the older generation (from India) had been brought up heavily influenced by the bhakti tradition where the relationship with God is seen as a very personal one....where personal wishes for material things are granted through prayer. I used to think that the younger western born Sikhs were all like me, where my relationship with God is seen more in terms of what I can do for others and never daring to ask for things in prayers. I've always felt that it would be obscene for me to ask waheguru to grant me something when the truth is he has every right to take things away from me bearing in mind how he has already given me so much. He's given me arms, legs, health, food and a roof over my head. These are things that so much of humanity doesn't have so how disgusting would it be for me to pray for more ?

I was wrong however, for thinking that the western born Gursikhs around me think like me. Generally, they think exactly the same way as their parents. Alot of the blame for this must like with the multitude of jathas and parcharaks around these days. In a way of drawing patit Sikhs towards the fold they actively tell them how prayers can make their personal wishes come true and you'll be amazed just how many of today's younger generation amritdharis have become so on the foundation of such selfish principles. As I sit with these people as part of the sangat, i.e my brothers and sisters, the whole thing really does have a negative impact on my own spiritual well-being.

[MisterrSingh]

Alot of the blame for this must like with the multitude of jathas and parcharaks around these days. In a way of drawing patit Sikhs towards the fold they actively tell them how prayers can make their personal wishes come true and you'll be amazed just how many of today's younger generation amritdharis have become so on the foundation of such selfish principles.

In addition to what I've highlighted above, once the impressionable have been ensnared, to keep them interested the insidious promise from some groups is gaining occult powers through following Sikhi.

I wish i was joking.

[kazimakazima]

A word of advice: If your'e a blighty bandar like me, who thinks he (and indeed does) speak a wonderfull colloqial rustic rural punjabi NEVER EVER, when conversing with anyone actually from Punjab, try and explain the old/new Testament parable of it "being easier to thread a camel through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to reach the kingdom of heaven".

I tried.

I failed.

I tried because I was trying to articulate how we are valuing the rich man more than the poor man who is rich in his heart.

So I translated the parable. They all looked at me like I was a retarded simpleton and started asking questions (in Punjabi) like "what kind of mental person would try and thread a camel through the eye of a needle?" and "how the hell can someone be so stupid that he thinks picking up a camel is possible?".

It went on and on. I quickly regretted even attempting to translate this parable into Punjabi but even then the besti was not complete. They kept going.

One minute, in their eyes, I was a man of respect "doing Phd" and the next, simply by embarking on this terrible terrible mistake, I lost all respect. I became nothing more than a man that thinks it is possible to pick a camel up and poke it through a tiny needle.

Thats the moral of that story. Punjabis will never get to the bit about it being difficult for a rich man to reach the kingdom of heaven. You will lose all Punjabis (and your respect) the very moment you mention a 'camel' and trying to literaly thread it through a tiny hole. So, because I care for you all as my brothers and sisters I advise you all to never make the same mistake I made. NEVER EVER try and relate the camel, eye of the needle and the the rich man scenario to a Sikh from Punjab. For your own sake's don't do it.

But, seeing how most of you are like me (not with the same thinking and mindset but with the similar western born mindset) I feel you'll be able to at understand what I was trying to get at. The point I was going to make to them, but never got to that stage because I became an epic fool, is that we respect the rich man too much. I wanted to explain the deeper meaning of the parable, articulating the fact that the rich man fails to reach the kingdom of heaven not because he is rich but because the richness massages his ego and false pride.

I remember when I was a teenager having a similar conversation with an auntie (amritdhari) and I'll never forget how she quoted the fact that Sri Gobind Singh Ji was so rich, had the finest clothes and the finest horses...ie the finest things....that the Sikhs that have those things are closer to HIM. This left me despondent but I quickly realised that the mentality of the average Sikh from Punjab is to think like this.

Now here's the thing. I got married in Punjab. My one and only condition for marriage was the girl should be from a Sikh family that is not rich, has suffered from the Indian progroms and would benefit from me. It gave me a sense of worth. It gave me purpose, and I thank the Lord for giving me the opportunity for doing this. But, I look around at all the rich boys and girls from really really Gursikh chardi-kala families in the UK and Canada...western born...and active in standing up for Sikh rights...and I can't help thinking how come exactly 0% of them has married a beautifull Singhni from the widows colony in Delhi ? How come, even though 99% of the beautifull daughters of Sri Gobind Singh Ji, i.e daughters and grandaughters of the shaheeds of 1984 onwards, are living in poverty and suffering, exactly 0% of our UK and Canada born Gursikhs have married any of them ?

Basic Maths : 100% of them preaching about the suffering of the family of the shaheeds yet 0% of them marrying one of them thus helping them.

Advanced Maths : I've never been any good at Maths but in this instance even I, who is rubbish at Maths can confidently say it doesn't add up.

But every maths equation must have answer.

The answer is money, greed and riches.

But, as the thread implies, we Sikhs of Punjabi heritage have an inherent problem that goes beyond basic maths problems.

Punjab and Sikhi's biggest problem is the way that the Badal clan 'keeps it in the family' and has kept Punjab on it's knees by accumulating power by marriage.

So what do these western born anti-Badal Gursikhs teach us when they embark on their marraige liasons with other rich Gursikh familes, as they always do ?

The answer is that you should never attempt to explain how it is easier to thread a camel through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to reach the kingdom of heaven.

My commiserations to you, but you are not the only one with this kind of mindset. I would never call this a 'western' mindset, no way. It is a mindset of someone who has really dived very deep within and discovered a priceless gem, also known as 'Insight/ Awareness' etc. This wonderful awareness is absolutely priceless therefore worth sharing with others, but, there is a but. You have to pick your audience very carefully before you decide to share.

You know what they say about one's BANDA? It has to be clean before receiving amrit. if it is not then this banda will not be able to contain the amrit for long. At the first instance it will just refuse to taste or even have it. You tried to share something with your audience which is far too difficult for them to handle because their bandas are not clean. They rejected what you had to share with them and this is what made you feel like an 'epic fool' which is really so sad. You have my full support. If I were you I will make sure I pick the right audience next time.

I have also come across those that have decided not to share their insights, their priceless gems, their insights/awareness with others lest they should be labelled 'lunatics.' They are so scared of the daft response it will produce. I am not saying stop trying, no, this is not what I meant. I think roughly 110% of the sikhs not only from Punjab but from everywhere else can do with a proper brain transplant if not full then half will suffice. This should be done in a form of cosmetic surgery! I wonder if there is such a thing as intelligent sikh? I am so desperate to meet them. My desperation is driving me crazy. Unless we are intelligent we can never dive deeper into the ocean to look for priceless gems. Sojji can only be achieved if we are intelligent. Sojji and intelligence go hand in hand.

I feel very sorry for your 'amritdhari' aunty. I wonder where she is now... hmm? Poor thing. I congratulate you on your findings, you have probably got the best brain(s) out of the whole sikh kom. I am an amritdhari sikh but I have excomunicated the kom because I cannot learn anything from them. Oh, how I wish the Lord will help me!

[SheikhYoBooty]

Some billionaire Arabs won't condemn the pedophilia of 54 year old Prophet Muhammad.

Or will claim that a 54 year old Arab having sex with his 9 year old child wife Aisha is totally cool!