Sikhi And Wealth

[kazimakazima]

Hey SheikhYoBooty, this is not how a devout sikh should treat a friend?

[SheikhYoBooty]

This is what a wealthy Arab Muslim told me I should learn from the example of

TheReligionofPeace.com
Guide to Understanding Islam

What does the
Religion of Peace
Teach About...

The Sex Life of the Prophet

Question:

Was Islam's "perfect man" sexually restrained?

Summary Answer:

The Quran (which was narrated by Muhammad) refers to Muhammad's life as "as beautiful pattern of conduct for anyone whose hope is in Allah" (33:21) and "an exalted standard of character" (68:4). Yet, thanks to Allah's extraordinary interest in his personal sex life (as immortalized in the Quran) the prophet of Islam had sex with just about anyone he pleased.

Although the Qur'an didn't appear to have enough space for topics like universal love and brotherhood (which Muslims sometimes insist are there, but aren't), the list of sexual partners that Muhammad was entitled to is detailed more than once, sometimes in categories and sometimes in reference to specific persons (ie. Zaynab and Mary).

Muhammad was married to thirteen women, including eleven at one time. He relegated them to either consecutive days or (according to some accounts) all in one night. He had sex with a 9-year-old girl and married his adopted son's wife (after arranging a quick divorce). On top of that, Muhammad had a multitude of slave girls and concubines with whom he had sex - sometimes on the very days in which they had watched their husbands and fathers die at the hands of his army.

So, by any realistic measure, the creator of the world's most sexually restrictive religion was also one of the most sexually indulgent characters in history.

The Qur'an:

Allah managed to hand down quite a few "revelations" that sanctioned Muhammad's personal pursuit of sex to the doubters around him. Interestingly they have become part of the the eternal, infallible word of the Qur'an, to be memorized by generations of Muslims for whom they have no possible relevance.

Qur'an (33:37) - "But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah's command shall be performed." No doubt millions of young Muslims, trying to outdo one another at memorizing the Qur'an, have wondered about what this verse means and why it is there. In fact, this is a "revelation" of convenience that Allah just happened to hand down at a time when Muhammad lusted after his daughter-in-law, Zaynab, - a state of affairs that disturbed local customs. The verse "commands" Muhammad to marry the woman (following her husband's gracious divorce). As for why this should be part of the eternal word of God...?

Qur'an (33:50) - "O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those slaves whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; " This is another special command that Muhammad handed down to himself that allows virtually unlimited sex, divinely sanctioned by Allah. One assumes that this "revelation" was meant to assuage some sort of disgruntlement in the community over Muhammad's hedonism.

Qur'an (33:51) - "You may put off whom you please of them, and you may take to you whom you please, and whom you desire of those whom you had separated provisionally; no blame attaches to you; this is most proper, so that their eyes may be cool and they may not grieve, and that they should be pleased" This is in reference to a situation in which Muhammad's wives were grumbling about his preference for sleeping with a slave girl (Mary the Copt) instead of them. Accordingly, Muhammad may sleep with whichever wife (or slave) he wishes without having to hear the others complain... as revealed in Allah's literal and perfect words to more than a billion Muslims.

Qur'an (66:1-5) - "O Prophet! Why do you ban (for yourself) that which Allah has made lawful to you, seeking to please your wives?... Allah has already ordained for you, the dissolution of your oaths " Another remarkably personal passage of sexual convenience in a book billed as Allah's perfect and eternal message to mankind. Muhammad was caught sleeping with a slave woman on the night that he was supposed to be with one of his wives. Initially promising to be faithful, "Allah" tells his prophet to break that promise and enjoy sex with his slaves. If his wives objected then "it may be if he divorced you (all) that his Lord will give him instead of you, wives better than you."

Qur'an (4:24) - "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those slaves whom your right hands possess." Allah even permitted Muhammad and his men to have sex with married slaves, such as those captured in battle.

From the Hadith:

Muslim (8:3309) - Muhammad consummated his marriage to Aisha when she was only nine. (See also Bukhari 58:234 and many other places). No where in the reliable Hadith or Sira is there any other age given. Other references are Sahih Bukhari 3896, 5158 and 3311.

Bukhari (62:18) - Aisha's father, Abu Bakr, wasn't on board at first, but Muhammad explained how the rules of their religion made it possible. This is similar to the way that present-day cult leaders manipulate their followers into similar concessions.

Muslim (8:3311) - The girl took her dolls with her to Muhammad's house (something to play with when the "prophet" was not having sex with her).

Bukhari (6:298) - Muhammad would take a bath with the little girl and fondle her.

Muslim (8:3460) - "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you could sport with her and she sport with you, or you could amuse with her and she could amuse with you?" Muhammad posed this question to one of his followers who had married an "older woman" instead of opting to fondle a child.

Bukhari (4:232) - Muhammad's wives would wash semen stains out of his clothes, which were still wet from the spot-cleaning even when he went to the mosque for prayers. Between copulation and prayer, it's a wonder he found the time to slay pagans.

Bukhari (6:300) - Muhammad's wives had to be available for the prophet's fondling even when they were having their menstrual period.

Bukhari (93:639) - The Prophet of Islam would recite the 'Holy Qur'an' with his head in Aisha's lap, when she was menstruating.

Bukhari (62:6) - "The Prophet used to go round (have sexual relations with) all his wives in one night, and he had nine wives." Muhammad also said that it was impossible to treat all wives equally - and it isn't hard to guess why.

Bukhari (5:268) - "The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked Anas, 'Had the Prophet the strength for it?' Anas replied, 'We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty men.' "

Bukhari (60:311) - "I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires." These words were spoken by Aisha within the context of her husband having been given 'Allah's permission' to fulfill his sexual desires with a large number of women in whatever order he chooses. (It has been suggested that Aisha may have been speaking somewhat wryly).

[Singhni MiriPiri]

oh yeah, my bad Kazim bro, i totally forgot u are an Amritdhari Sikh today.

Lol ^3^

[Quantavius]

A word of advice: If your'e a blighty bandar like me, who thinks he (and indeed does) speak a wonderfull colloqial rustic rural punjabi NEVER EVER, when conversing with anyone actually from Punjab, try and explain the old/new Testament parable of it "being easier to thread a camel through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to reach the kingdom of heaven".

I tried.

I failed.

I tried because I was trying to articulate how we are valuing the rich man more than the poor man who is rich in his heart.

So I translated the parable. They all looked at me like I was a retarded simpleton and started asking questions (in Punjabi) like "what kind of mental person would try and thread a camel through the eye of a needle?" and "how the hell can someone be so stupid that he thinks picking up a camel is possible?".

It went on and on. I quickly regretted even attempting to translate this parable into Punjabi but even then the besti was not complete. They kept going.

One minute, in their eyes, I was a man of respect "doing Phd" and the next, simply by embarking on this terrible terrible mistake, I lost all respect. I became nothing more than a man that thinks it is possible to pick a camel up and poke it through a tiny needle.

Sounds like you met the village idiots. LOL!

Thats the moral of that story. Punjabis will never get to the bit about it being difficult for a rich man to reach the kingdom of heaven. You will lose all Punjabis (and your respect) the very moment you mention a 'camel' and trying to literaly thread it through a tiny hole. So, because I care for you all as my brothers and sisters I advise you all to never make the same mistake I made. NEVER EVER try and relate the camel, eye of the needle and the the rich man scenario to a Sikh from Punjab. For your own sake's don't do it.

But, seeing how most of you are like me (not with the same thinking and mindset but with the similar western born mindset) I feel you'll be able to at understand what I was trying to get at. The point I was going to make to them, but never got to that stage because I became an epic fool, is that we respect the rich man too much. I wanted to explain the deeper meaning of the parable, articulating the fact that the rich man fails to reach the kingdom of heaven not because he is rich but because the richness massages his ego and false pride.

Thats not true. We have many of our stories like that. What was that one about Bhai Lallo and Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

I remember when I was a teenager having a similar conversation with an auntie (amritdhari) and I'll never forget how she quoted the fact that Sri Gobind Singh Ji was so rich, had the finest clothes and the finest horses...ie the finest things....that the Sikhs that have those things are closer to HIM. This left me despondent but I quickly realised that the mentality of the average Sikh from Punjab is to think like this.

This right here is why I believe it's pointless to be amardhari. What is the point of being armadhari when it made no difference in your level of spirituality and leaves you no different from the average person? I have met smokers/drinkers who surprisingly have a higher sense of spirituality ie not materialistic and are very generous.

[MisterrSingh]

This right here is why I believe it's pointless to be amardhari. What is the point of being armadhari when it made no difference in your level of spirituality and leaves you no different from the average person? I have met smokers/drinkers who surprisingly have a higher sense of spirituality ie not materialistic and are very generous.

I don't agree with you on the above in bold, brother, but I can appreciate why you'd make such a statement.

It's too easy for anyone to take Amrit and profess to be a Sikh of the Guru. Most of the time there's simply no desire to look within oneself to make improvements or work on deficiencies in character and personality that are the antithesis of what it means to be a baptised Sikh.

Certain elements of the older generation, if I was being cynical, see it as a rite of passage, something to do close to or during retirement in the hope of erasing a lifetime of questionable deeds in the mistaken belief of being spared the ordeal of being reborn on earth again. But what excuse do the youngsters have for not bothering to continue learning and improving to become great and true Sikhs? For them, I suspect, it's more of a social thing. They swap the environment of the pub or the club for holier surroundings as if that's the whole battle won. The one's who haven't partaken in intoxicants or other vices still view Sikhi as something akin to supporting a football club, and all the tribalism and baggage such a mentality entails.

I've never met a true Gursikh (as Gurbani states) in my entire life. Those who I've thought were the real deal eventually let their mask slip. I'm not asking or expecting perfection, because that's not possible or reasonable to expect any human being to be, but I've seen so many questionable people who've taken Amrit for suspect reasons, and then continue with the same mentality, traits and habits from before, that I just wonder what's going on. I've encountered a few non-Sikhs, and quite alarmingly, an atheist with more wisdom, knowledge, and patience than any baptised Sikh. That's quite a sad thing to realise.

[Balkaar]

This right here is why I believe it's pointless to be amardhari. What is the point of being armadhari when it made no difference in your level of spirituality and leaves you no different from the average person? I have met smokers/drinkers who surprisingly have a higher sense of spirituality ie not materialistic and are very generous.

Wouldn't say it's pointless, only that it isn't a magical potion that somehow instantly cures somebody of being a low-life , as a staggering number of people on this forum seem to believe.

The work isn't over when you take Guru Ka Amrit. It isn't the case that once you drink it, it becomes like a filter in a fish-tank constantly cleaning up the filth inside you. The impetus is on you to do that, and recieving Guru's Pahul helps a lot of people very much in this endeavor. Amrit is a very potent force for positive change in a person.

[MisterrSingh]

Actually it is somewhat 'magical'. To believe in your dharm you need to be initiated by whoever your Sri Guru ji is, and in our case we must take Sri Amrit for our Sri Guru ji to activate our bhagti in full force, and be happy of our identity as a follower of Sri Akaal Purukh's most perfect dharm.

You make it sound like the flicking of a switch. "Activate Gursikh mode!" It's a lot more subtle than that. However, I do believe there is something quite mystical, magical if you will, about Amrit, but I've always been a bit wistfully naive so maybe that's just me being silly.

[Balkaar]

Actually it is somewhat 'magical'. To believe in your dharm you need to be initiated by whoever your Sri Guru ji is, and in our case we must take Sri Amrit for our Sri Guru ji to activate our bhagti in full force, and be happy of our identity as a follower of Sri Akaal Purukh's most perfect dharm.

I understand, but I don't see how the acknowledgement that Amrit is the gift of the Guru imparts magical powers to it.

There are some people who actually become worse after taking Amrit because it provides them with an excuse to be holier than-thou. Of course this isn't due to any quality of the Amrit itself, but due to the mindset of those who imbibe.

[Balkaar]

You make it sound like the flicking of a switch. "Activate Gursikh mode!" It's a lot more subtle than that. However, I do believe there is something quite mystical, magical if you will, about Amrit, but I've always been a bit wistfully naive so maybe that's just me being silly.

Lol, you've an amusing way with words Singh.

[Quantavius]

Are you even Sikh (no offense)? If you are SIkh you would know that respecting and listening to your Sri Guru ji's hukam is #1 regardless what they say. Even if you aren't Sikh and you have Sri Guru ji from a different religion you are supposed to listen to them 100% if you believe. Sharda/Aastha/Bhavna/countless other meanings like that cannot be forced on someone, so I will just pray that you recognize it sooner than later.

You of all people asking me this? That's rich! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!