Sikhi And Wealth

[simran345]

You could think of it that way, but this is no joking matter. If you want to attain mukhti through SIkhism, Sri Amrit is a musssssssst! By that you get the blessing of all of our Sri Guru jis who will from thereafter be forever helpful towards your positive dharmic endeavors. Without them what can we do?

The magical part is that we recieve their blessings when praying etc, without their blessing can we really recieve nirvana through the Sikh way? They are in a way holier then us, but the thing is you can take Sri Amrit and be equal towards them, nobody is stopping anyone.

Equal towards them? Are u saying equal to Maharaj ji? Not wise words.

Magical, one maybe trying to say self realisation (atam chine)?

ਆਤਮੁ ਚੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਭਏ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੀ ॥੭॥ आतमु चीन्हि भए निरंकारी ॥७॥ Āṯam cẖīnėh bẖa▫e nirankārī. ||7||

Understanding itself, this soul becomes attuned to the Formless Lord. ||7||

SGGS Ang 415

What do you mean they are in a way holier than us Preet ji? In a way?

[simran345]

Noooo you are misunderstanding me, I meant equal towards other Amritdharis.

Okji thank you for the correction, you should also write it so one may understand what you are trying to say.

[MisterrSingh]

Without them what can we do?

Not much. I can attest to that at least!

[Quantavius]

I don't agree with you on the above in bold, brother, but I can appreciate why you'd make such a statement.

It's too easy for anyone to take Amrit and profess to be a Sikh of the Guru. Most of the time there's simply no desire to look within oneself to make improvements or work on deficiencies in character and personality that are the antithesis of what it means to be a baptised Sikh.

Bingo. Right on the money.

Certain elements of the older generation, if I was being cynical, see it as a rite of passage, something to do close to or during retirement in the hope of erasing a lifetime of questionable deeds in the mistaken belief of being spared the ordeal of being reborn on earth again. But what excuse do the youngsters have for not bothering to continue learning and improving to become great and true Sikhs? For them, I suspect, it's more of a social thing. They swap the environment of the pub or the club for holier surroundings as if that's the whole battle won. The one's who haven't partaken in intoxicants or other vices still view Sikhi as something akin to supporting a football club, and all the tribalism and baggage such a mentality entails.

Why can't one learn about Sikhism and practice without taking amrit? IMHO one cannot obtain spirituality simply by outward appearances. The story of Guru Nanak Dev Ji during the threading ceremony comes to mind.

I've never met a true Gursikh (as Gurbani states) in my entire life. Those who I've thought were the real deal eventually let their mask slip. I'm not asking or expecting perfection, because that's not possible or reasonable to expect any human being to be, but I've seen so many questionable people who've taken Amrit for suspect reasons, and then continue with the same mentality, traits and habits from before, that I just wonder what's going on. I've encountered a few non-Sikhs, and quite alarmingly, an atheist with more wisdom, knowledge, and patience than any baptised Sikh. That's quite a sad thing to realise.

I remember one of trips to India. I found a pub and as I was entering the pub, there was this sign up something along the lines of 'alcohol destroys family'...bla,bla,bla. I asked the waiter why does the pub have this sign up. He claimed it was a requirement by the GOI. This right here is the problem with Indian people in general. They are so concerned with outward appearances of piety and totally overlook that morals and spirituality comes from the within and not outward only. Not only that sign is a requirement, by 1am (or 2am?) pub must close. Imagine if the GOI had put the same type effort to curb corruption, India would probably today be on par with a country like Japan. But no, you won't see that happening as that requires actual courage, truthfulness and honesty. It's easier to attack outward appearances, you look good and everybody looks at you as some kinda hero.

IMHO asians like the Japanese, Singapoeans, Vietnamese...etc, etc who generally drink/smoke have a higher sense of morals then Indians which is why they are able to create great countries. Heck, you can see Indians living in these countries and most never go back.

[Balkaar]

Why can't one learn about Sikhism and practice without taking amrit? IMHO one cannot obtain spirituality simply by outward appearances. The story of Guru Nanak Dev Ji during the threading ceremony comes to mind.

That point is raised often.

There isn't really a comparison to be made between the Hindu Janeoo and the Sikh Kakkars. Guru Ji refused to adopt the sacred thread because he was told that it would entitle him to salvation, that this cotton was invested with miraculous and otherworldly powers. We don't regard our kakkars in the same way, the are mainly symbolic, they are not necessary for salvation in the same way that the janeoo is claimed to be by Hindus.

The Janeeo is inequality made manifest as a flimsy thread. Only Brahmin, Kshatriya and Vaisya males are entitled to wear them. Guru Sahib's Panj Kakkars are available to all, irrespective of gender and caste.

[MisterrSingh]

Why can't one learn about Sikhism and practice without taking amrit? IMHO one cannot obtain spirituality simply by outward appearances. The story of Guru Nanak Dev Ji during the threading ceremony comes to mind.

Personally, I believe sacrifice is an essential part of Sikhi. I think it's basically about making that leap of faith and giving yourself upto something bigger than any of us, as exemplified by the moment when Guru Gobind Singh Ji plucked five men from a crowd who others assumed were walking off to their certain deaths. But, as we later realised, those five had such unshakable faith in their Guru they trusted his plan for them unbeknownst to them at the time. That's what taking Amrit is I think; "I'm yours, do with me what you will. I'm nothing."

But, like I said, now there's none of that physical peril of the original moment in Sikh history, so in theory, all sorts step up in this modern era knowing it's all going to be fine. There's a few genuine souls who believe, in their hearts, that taking Amrit is a life-changing moment, and whilst their heads aren't at stake (literally speaking), their souls are. So, those individuals are the blessed few who get down to business and realise the golden opportunity they've been presented. Just my theories, I could be completely wrong BTW.

[Quantavius]

You are the same person who thinks Sri Amrit isn't needed, so I can't take you seriously right now.

To all,

I would like to present 'Exhibit A' to the Sangat. In other threads this person is extolling the virtuous of caste and claiming one can wash away ones sins by bathing in Ganges river. This person has even referred to our Gurdwara as 'Mandirs'. Yet this person who I believe is Amardhari asking 'me' if I'm a Sikh. How can someone who is so lost and so confused on the basic fundamentals of Sikhism, sounding more like a Hindu then a Sikhand yet is a Amardhari? Have we come full circle?

I rest my case. LOL!!!!!!!!

[Quantavius]

Personally, I believe sacrifice is an essential part of Sikhi. I think it's basically about making that leap of faith and giving yourself upto something bigger than any of us, as exemplified by the moment when Guru Gobind Singh Ji plucked five men from a crowd who others assumed were walking off to their certain deaths. But, as we later realised, those five had such unshakable faith in their Guru they trusted his plan for them unbeknownst to them at the time. That's what taking Amrit is I think; "I'm yours, do with me what you will. I'm nothing."

Nobody in this day and age sacrificing anything by taking amrit. The situation back then and now is simply not comparable. Let's take the Kirpan as an example. Per my limited understanding, Guru Gobind Singh Ji prescribed the Kirpan as a weapon to be actually used in combat situation. A kirpan was the weapon back in the day. If I'm not mistaken, strictly speaking a Amardhari Khalsa is supposed to draw his kirpan and help those in need in a situation requiring a fight. Is this happening today or does the Khalsa simply whips out his smartphone and calls 911. LOL!

Secondly, should Amardharis still use the Kirpan or upgrade to maybe a Glock in keeping up with technology? I apologize as i I understand the question sounds comical but on a serious note, what do you think?

IMHO, So in effect, even todays Amardharis are not following what is prescribed as a Khalsa 100%.

But, like I said, now there's none of that physical peril of the original moment in Sikh history, so in theory, all sorts step up in this modern era knowing it's all going to be fine. There's a few genuine souls who believe, in their hearts, that taking Amrit is a life-changing moment, and whilst their heads aren't at stake (literally speaking), their souls are. So, those individuals are the blessed few who get down to business and realise the golden opportunity they've been presented. Just my theories, I could be completely wrong BTW.

Point taken

[pushpinda]

....

[Singhni MiriPiri]

Nobody in this day and age sacrificing anything by taking amrit. The situation back then and now is simply not comparable. Let's take the Kirpan as an example. Per my limited understanding, Guru Gobind Singh Ji prescribed the Kirpan as a weapon to be actually used in combat situation. A kirpan was the weapon back in the day. If I'm not mistaken, strictly speaking a Amardhari Khalsa is supposed to draw his kirpan and help those in need in a situation requiring a fight. Is this happening today or does the Khalsa simply whips out his smartphone and calls 911. LOL!

Secondly, should Amardharis still use the Kirpan or upgrade to maybe a Glock in keeping up with technology? I apologize as i I understand the question sounds comical but on a serious note, what do you think?

IMHO, So in effect, even todays Amardharis are not following what is prescribed as a Khalsa 100%.

Point taken

Our Gurus made no mistake in giving our kakkars to wear. Our Gurus were timeless so there is nothing outdated in how we dress. It is actually other people's appearances which are outdated as they constantly have to change their appearance to keep up with the constant change in fashion. Amrit isn't about distinguishing ourselves from appearance but to set ourselves on the path to vaheguru spiritually. In every practice we take in sikhi even in appearance has a spiritual benefit regardless of how hard it is for us to comprehend this. During amrit initiation, we receive naam which is the remedy to unite ourselves with vaheguru. The creation was created by the sound of vaheguru, this sound/vibration is an indescribable blessing for anyone to receive. I agree we need to be human first which is why when the panj pyare were called daya came first. We need to have a strong mentality and behaviour of compassion and morality before even attempting to be a sikh, otherwise our naam bani isn't pleasing to guru sahib and vaheguru. It would be better for us to set ourselves as an example to others of how a Sikh should be.