Quran Found Before Prophets Time

[jkvlondon]

Nothing to do with my so called secular philosophy. The Dasam Granth is not the Guru, if you believe it is, then you're the bemukh. Dasam Granth is not the topic here.

So, you and others doubt Dhan Guru Arjan Dev Ji Nirankaar? why oh why would he even say such things in the Bani...

kurwxu kqyb idl mwih kmwhI ] (1083-17)

kuraan katayb dil maahi kamaahee.

Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible

Ignore the Bible bit as that's not what we are discussing.

Go, fabricate to suit your own needs as does Sheikh and a few others. The truth is the truth, hate all you want. You're driven away from sacha gian by the hatred you posses.

The Quran is such a vile compilation to you and others, yet here is the Lord saying dil meh kamovoh jo likia Quran vich - Basic Punjabi breakdown for those who are not able to translate

Please reconsider your words veer ji Bani guru , guru hai bani , vich bani amrit sare , ...Dasmesh pita ji's bani is gurbani .

[jkvlondon]

Waheguru Ji ka khalsa waheguru Ji ki fateh. Balkaar veer and jkv London penji my understanding is that it's optional to learn about other faiths. There's so much to learn about sikhi and we have little time to take it in and understand. Our focus should be sikhi. Respect people of other faiths. Bhuk chuk maaf ji.

Personally speaking I learnt as much as I could about sikhi first as a child then wondered what the other faiths offered their people in comparison e.g. Naam japna I quickly realised just how blessed and free I was as a seeker of Akal Purakh because I could see the obstacles put in the way of others searching in their paths and it made me keen to share how Akal Purakh wants us to be loved and how naam is above all ...and that is what I have done .I am still learning but I support other friends striving too on their paths. At university my group of friends was mixed in faiths but we would prepare langar veg of course eat together do charcha together then pray in our own ways together. That is what I believe life is meant to be like , all equal in love with Akal Purakh.

[Jonny101]

Look, those that oppose the Dasam Granth do it out of love for the Guru Sahib as they can't fathom such wording used in Charitropakhyan to be attributed to Mahraaj ji, same with those who defend it, they do it with love for him and say the definitions are not as they appear. So I'm not here to discuss that.

But where did anyone talk about Charitro Pakhyan??? You said Gurbani talks of the Quran so we should not doubt it. So a member of this forum presented the Shabad where it talks of the Quran and which is also a part of our Daily Nitnem here:

ਪਾਂਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋਊ ਆਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਆਨਯੋ ॥

ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ ॥

ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਨ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਿਪਾਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੈ ਨ ਕਹਯੋ ਸਭ ਤੋਹਿ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥੮੬੩॥

O God ! the day when I caught hold of your feet,

I do not bring anyone else under my sight;

none other is liked by me now;

the Puranas and the Quran try to know Thee by the names of Ram and Rahim

and talk about you through several stories, but I do not accept any of their opinions;

The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas describe several mysteries of yours,

but I do not agree with any of them.

O sword-wielder God! This all has been described by Thy Grace,

what power can I have to write all this?

Can you show me where in this Shabad is there anything that you find objectionable from Gurmat point of view?

In simple terms, all the Gurus said that one should follow the path you follow, be it Christian, Islam, etc etc

Can you show me where any of the Gurus have said this? If HInduism, Islam, Jainism or atheism was alright then what need was there for our ancestor to convert to Sikhi and leave their old religion if the Gurus had said "one should follow the path you follow, be it Christian, Islam, etc etc" our Gurus have criticized faiths of the Hindus and Muslims who do moorti pooja(done by Hindus of Moortis and by Muslims facing a black done 5 times a day), fasting(done by both Hindus and Muslims). There is no liberation from Charasee Lakh joonis without one coming to the Sharan of Sri Guru Nanak dev Jee. Bin Satgur Kine Na Payo, Bin Satgur Kine Na Paya makes it clear that no one has or can realize Vaheguru without Satguru Nanak Dev Jee. Even in mool Mantar it is clearly written that Vaheguru is GurPrasaad meaning he is only obtained through the blessing of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee.

Those who understand will, those that do not, won't. Jisnu toon janai so jan jaanai. All the Guru Sahibs preached tolerance, and never once ridiculed any scripture, instead respected and stated that all Bhagats, Gurus, Prophets are all sent by the ONE God. Now for some clearly when we go to the Sacha Darbar and are questioned to why they chose to ridicule the faith of another and their scripture whilst claiming, we are TRUE Sikhs of the Guru Sahibs and practice what they preached, well the outcome is obvious.

Then you are saying here that we should not critisize Prophet Mohammad or

So you think that the Abrahamic prophets were at the same level as the Gurus and Bhagat Sahibaan?? show us where in Gurbani does it state that. And just for you info it is Dasam Bani(which you do not believe in) that states that prophet Mohammad was sent by God not Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee.

[intrigued]

Interesting thread, any new information on the manuscript?

[puzzled]

Most of these books have been changed or altered, though obviously their followers will deny it.

The Quran has different versions which are supposed to be different pronunciations or dialects. But the difference in dialect gives different meaning to the words. They even had a war over it, to settle the differences all versions were destroyed but one was kept, the Quraysh dialect I believe, but some of the other versions survived. 

 

Even the Ramayan is believed to be altered. Like near the end of the Ramayan Raam decided to behead a shudra for meditating! This incident is quite out of place in the Ramayan, as Raam is kind to people of all castes. Its likely a Brahmin added this story much later.

 

[puzzled]

We should learn from this, there are people dressed like Sikhs, who are trying to alter Sikhi. 

Not sure how true it is, but apparently some building within the Harmandir Sahib complex is being repaired, but the bricks they are using have the name of the company that provided the bricks on them "raam"   apparently this was deliberately done by the people running Harmandir Sahib, as some point in the future (e.g 200 years into the future) when someone will "discover" these bricks they can claim that Harmandir Sahib was originally a Hindu Vishnu/Hari temple.

Not sure how true this story is, but Its the kind of thing that people who want to destroy Sikhi would do. 

[intrigued]

12 minutes ago, puzzled said:

We should learn from this, there are people dressed like Sikhs, who are trying to alter Sikhi. 

Not sure how true it is, but apparently some building within the Harmandir Sahib complex is being repaired, but the bricks they are using have the name of the company that provided the bricks on them "raam"   apparently this was deliberately done by the people running Harmandir Sahib, as some point in the future (e.g 200 years into the future) when someone will "discover" these bricks they can claim that Harmandir Sahib was originally a Hindu Vishnu/Hari temple.

Not sure how true this story is, but Its the kind of thing that people who want to destroy Sikhi would do. 

Wouldn't put it past them. Many of the "Sikhs" today prioritize money over the panth

[puzzled]

20 minutes ago, intrigued said:

Wouldn't put it past them. Many of the "Sikhs" today prioritize money over the panth

The fact that the president of the sgpc is someone like Jagir Kaur, a woman who murdered her daughter and a unborn child, sums up the people that are at the top.

Its very true. If some building materials are used underground at Harmandir Sahib, and it happens to have "Hari Om" stamped on it, because that's the name of the company that the material was bought from, 200 years from now if someone decides to excavate the site and they come across the building material, someone can easily claim that Harmandir Sahib was an ancient mandir. 

But people who want to alter Sikhi will deliberately do this kind of thing.

Some Hindus actually make the claim that Harmandir Sahib was originally a Vishnu mandir which was taken over by Sikhs and made into a Gurdwara. The fact that it is well documented that after the fall of the Sikh empire the mahants took over and installed idols, particular type of Hindus use these historical accounts to "prove" that Harmandir Sahib was originally a mandir with idols. That's how easy it is to take something out of context. 

 

Where my family are from India, around two years ago we've had Singh's from Amritsar turning up on motorbikes and taking Guru Granth Sahib jis saroops from jaggas. They claim that its wrong to keep Guru Granth Sahib ji at jaggas, which is correct, but are these people actually who they claim they are. No one questions them because they are Singhs. 

 

And then here in the West we have non Sikh agents with kes and dhari looking like Sikhs living amongst us, taking part in our events, taking note of everything. 

[puzzled]

Problem with Muslims is they started shoving their faith in everyone's face. People in turn started viewing the Islamic texts under a fine scope and found so many holes, contradictions and morally wrong teachings. These issues have risen and now in return so many are apostatizing.  

 

[Suchi]

1 hour ago, puzzled said:

Problem with Muslims is they started shoving their faith in everyone's face. People in turn started viewing the Islamic texts under a fine scope and found so many holes, contradictions and morally wrong teachings. These issues have risen and now in return so many are apostatizing.  

 

I wonder how many of them had Bill Gates' anti-God gene?