Quran Found Before Prophets Time

[jkvlondon]

But wasnt the Quran written down during the time of Uthman which is many years after Prophet Mohammed died? Before that it was memorized. So if this written Quran existed during or before the founder of Islam then it puts a big question mark on the claims of Muslims about Islam and the Quran. The Quran may very well have been plagiarized if this is true.

at the time of Uttman there were already 11 versions of the handwritten quran , however he collected ALL known writings and then compiled his quran burnt first hand sources and other versions and declared his as the true quran , my feeling is that he painted the 'Muhhamed ' of his quran in the colours of his own personal desires because historically and archaelogically speaking the early mosques all pointed to Petra not Mecca and Mohammed only had a maximum following of about 250 people after the quran was dictated (Mecca one) ...his name was not documented anywhere until after Uttman so ...one can either say Mohammed lived earlier in petra than is claimed and a fictious account is made of his life to justify the tribal ways of Arabs or The author was someone else and the Mohammed was the usurper of the message. Anyways Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru tera sabh sadka ....

[Guest Jacfsing2]

at the time of Uttman there were already 11 versions of the handwritten quran , however he collected ALL known writings and then compiled his quran burnt first hand sources and other versions and declared his as the true quran , my feeling is that he painted the 'Muhhamed ' of his quran in the colours of his own personal desires because historically and archaelogically speaking the early mosques all pointed to Petra not Mecca and Mohammed only had a maximum following of about 250 people after the quran was dictated (Mecca one) ...his name was not documented anywhere until after Uttman so ...one can either say Mohammed lived earlier in petra than is claimed and a fictious account is made of his life to justify the tribal ways of Arabs or The author was someone else and the Mohammed was the usurper of the message. Anyways Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru tera sabh sadka ....

So, who's the real Muhammad? Who's the Vaheguru,(Allah) of this book?

[SheikhYoBooty]

^Jacf these video's below give more insight into the real Prophet Muhammad

SMP Ji :respect: what it is sister i'm always happy to do anything for the happiness of our Muslim troll friends :lol2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz_c53O3-Hk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd5_3gdT4Xk

[Ranjeet01]

at the time of Uttman there were already 11 versions of the handwritten quran , however he collected ALL known writings and then compiled his quran burnt first hand sources and other versions and declared his as the true quran , my feeling is that he painted the 'Muhhamed ' of his quran in the colours of his own personal desires because historically and archaelogically speaking the early mosques all pointed to Petra not Mecca and Mohammed only had a maximum following of about 250 people after the quran was dictated (Mecca one) ...his name was not documented anywhere until after Uttman so ...one can either say Mohammed lived earlier in petra than is claimed and a fictious account is made of his life to justify the tribal ways of Arabs or The author was someone else and the Mohammed was the usurper of the message. Anyways Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru tera sabh sadka ....

JKV

A historian named Tom Holland wrote a book about the origins of Islam and Muhammed and even had a Channel 4 documentary.

[jkvlondon]

JKV

A historian named Tom Holland wrote a book about the origins of Islam and Muhammed and even had a Channel 4 documentary.

I know about Holland but he didn't have access to this manuscript and I am sure that he too would agree there are many errors and omissions in the history too.In fact The muslims do not like him at all since he has questioned/examined their history. I believe Hazrat Mohammed existed but earlier and lived in Petra not Mecca . Mecca was not a major trading place as it was way off the normal trade routes but now has become a super money maker for the tribals who own the land , who did not accept Islam at the time of the prophet but much much later after 3rd Caliph ...interesting that.

[jkvlondon]

Wrong

You don't understand that bold part. The parchment isn't dated to 568AD. 568AD is the MAXIMUM POSSIBLE extent of carbon dating.

The manuscript was written somewhere between 568AD to 645AD...and generally, the carbon dating falls in between the limits. So the manuscript was probably written in 622 to 630 etc.

Scholars and researchers have also confirmed this ...Look what British scholars and researchers have to say when the issue of "manuscript being older than Muhammad" was brought up to experts

"Fragments of 'world's oldest known Koran' unlikely to pre-date Prophet Mohamed, says expert"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/fragments-of-worlds-oldest-koran-unlikely-to-predate-prophet-mohamed-says-expert-10481728.html

I was stating the maximum possible discrepency datewise ...how ever I have stated my feelings that uttman's behaviour is very very suspect in terms of destroying first hand sources written down of hadiths and the suras and also the people who benefit from the 'warlike' mohammed beig a possible motive .

[Guest Jacfsing2]

^Jacf these video's below give more insight into the real Prophet Muhammad

SMP Ji :respect: what it is sister i'm always happy to do anything for the happiness of our Muslim troll friends :lol2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd5_3gdT4Xk

I wasn't referring directly to the prophet of the new Qur'an, I'm referring to the Muhammad that the Mecca-Muhammad stole info from the Qur'an he found. From my understanding the one that was popular was illiterate.

[Pakandi baba]

ਪਾਂਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋਊ ਆਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਆਨਯੋ ॥

ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ ॥

ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਨ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਿਪਾਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੈ ਨ ਕਹਯੋ ਸਭ ਤੋਹਿ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥੮੬੩॥

O God ! the day when I caught hold of your feet,

I do not bring anyone else under my sight;

none other is liked by me now;

the Puranas and the Quran try to know Thee by the names of Ram and Rahim

and talk about you through several stories, but I do not accept any of their opinions;

The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas describe several mysteries of yours,

but I do not agree with any of them.

O sword-wielder God! This all has been described by Thy Grace,

what power can I have to write all this?

1 More thing einstein, so what if the quran is mentioned in gurbani, does that mean they are being praised? wat an idiotic thing to say, adam/eve are also mentioned, but does that mean we believe in adam/eve now n not evolution? If michael jackson was mentioned in gurbani, would that mean hes all of a sudden a prophet now too? Remember 1 thing, guru arjan dev ji (shaheeda da sartaj), was made shaheed by jahanghir, for wat reason?.....For refusing to put quranic praises and praises of prophet muhammed in the adi granth (SGGS), guru ji stated, ONLY the truth shall be put inside our scriptures.

This is from the SGGS? if not then it means nothing as the SGGS is the ONLY Guru!

As for scriptures being mentioned, does not mean you have to believe in them, it's called RESPECT? this is what the Guru Sahibs have emphasised, and if they mention them, that means they are endorsing them as the Guru Sahibs did not say CONVERT but stay faithful and true to the religions you follow.

[Pakandi baba]

You cannot believe in the Koran and Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Please explain how two things which completely contradict one another on so many subjects can both be right or issued by the same God.

To take but one instance of radical dissimilarity:

Quran - advocates pilgrimage, fasting

SGGS - Totally refutes pilgrimage and fasting.

Please don't dodge the question or change the subject. Please speak on the point I have raised above, if you choose to reply to me at all.

So if one respects the scripture of another religion that equates to believing it? did the Guru Sahibs respect other religions or not? did they mock them the way you do? or did they explain with pyar?

[Balkaar]

This is from the SGGS? if not then it means nothing as the SGGS is the ONLY Guru!

It's from the Benti Chaupai Sahib of your Dashmesh Pita. That means nothing does it?

So if one respects the scripture of another religion that equates to believing it?

Ok then. I accept the distinction. Please tell me what is worthy of respect in that nasty book.

Perhaps this bit: "Surely, those who disbelieve in our revelations, we will condemn them to the hellfire. Whenever their skins are burnt, we will give them new skins. Thus, they will suffer continuously. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise. (Surah An-Nisa, verse 56)"

Or maybe this one: "Unto the male is the equivalent share of two females" (Surah 4:176)

Just how do I owe unconditional respect to ^that^? I'm not enjoined to honor or tip-toe around any ideology or any set of ideas, least of all one which maintains that I am a heathen bound for the eternal fires of hell because I have faith in the True Guru rather than some desert fraud.