Jump to content

Do Shaheeds Get Mukhti (Liberation) ?


Guest Gupt
 Share

Recommended Posts

ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ ॥

Rāg soraṯẖ.

Raag Sorat'h:

ਭੂਖੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਕੀਜੈ ॥

Bẖūkẖe bẖagaṯ na kījai.

I am so hungry, I cannot perform devotional worship service.

ਯਹ ਮਾਲਾ ਅਪਨੀ ਲੀਜੈ ॥

Yėh mālā apnī lījai.

Here, Lord, take back Your mala.

Source - http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=656&g=1&h=0&r=1&t=1&p=0&fb=0&k=0

ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ॥

Bilāval.

Bilaaval:

ਨਿਤ ਉਠਿ ਕੋਰੀ ਗਾਗਰਿ ਆਨੈ ਲੀਪਤ ਜੀਉ ਗਇਓ ॥

Niṯ uṯẖ korī gāgar ānai līpaṯ jī▫o ga▫i▫o.

Every day, he rises early, and brings a fresh clay pot; he passes his life embellishing and glazing it.

ਤਾਨਾ ਬਾਨਾ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਸੂਝੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਸਿ ਲਪਟਿਓ ॥੧॥

Ŧānā bānā kacẖẖū na sūjẖai har har ras lapti▫o. ||1||

He does not think at all of worldly weaving; he is absorbed in the subtle essence of the Lord, Har, Har. ||1||

ਹਮਾਰੇ ਕੁਲ ਕਉਨੇ ਰਾਮੁ ਕਹਿਓ ॥

Hamāre kul ka▫une rām kahi▫o.

Who in our family has ever chanted the Name of the Lord?

ਜਬ ਕੀ ਮਾਲਾ ਲਈ ਨਿਪੂਤੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਭਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Jab kī mālā la▫ī nipūṯe ṯab ṯe sukẖ na bẖa▫i▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.

Ever since this worthless son of mine began chanting with his mala, we have had no peace at all! ||1||Pause||

Source - http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&g=1&h=0&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=0&fb=0&Param=856

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where is the proof that Guru Nanak, Guru Arjan Dev Ji, Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji had a mala? Just because you see it in this paintings and pictures which aren't even real and are merely designed by artists impressions? And even if they did you can't compare yourself to a Guru, they maybe had one for their own reasons but I highly doubt it. Why would a Guru even need a mala? That's like questioning the Guru. Very wrong indeed.

Ever been to india and to historical gurduwaras? Ever seen any artifacts of the gurus? Well I have! This picture is Mala of the first guru. http://www.<banned site filter activated>/gurus/Guru%20Nanak/images/Dhilwan_Mala-_Sri_Guru_Nana.jpg

Guru hargobind sahibs Mala is at droli bhai pind near moga.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why don't you look to the Gurus? Why does everyone look at so and so baba, this baba and that baba who use mala? When did the Guru ever use a mala? When did the Guru ever permit anybody to use a mala? Sant Mahapurakhs who use mala may use one for their own reason, not for concentration. That's ridiculous because Guru Nanak says "Dhun Meh Dhyan Dhyan Meh Janiya Gurmukh Akth Kahani". The whole point is to put your focus into the DHUN, the sound, nothing else. How is this being done if you are using your mala? Your attention/focus would obviously be going into your hand/finger movement and not the sound. Thats why I'm saying we shouldn't even look at Sant and compare ourselves to them, because its a fact that they are not using to 'concentrate' as they are already above this. I have no problem with people using mala, whether they think it helps them or not but I dont like when they say its ok to use one because it encourages others to do so, when Gurbani doesn't say its ok. I can understand an old person using one, or anyone for that matter but to say that it's Gurmat and its ok for one to use to concentrate on is just not right.

Tarsem Ji who said I look at the Mahapurshs to use a mala and not at the Gurus teachings? That's your own assumption. I only wrote the facts, I never said one should use one did I? I don't think I've wrote anything wrong. By the way I don't use a mala. And where did I write one should compare themselves to a Sant? You should re-read exactly what I wrote as I think you are misinterpreting it and taking it in a different direction. Also where have I encouraged it to be part of Gurmat?

Did you even read Bhagat Namdev jis Bani I wrote and understand it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am asking this question as I am unsure as to whether Shaheed Singh's or Kaur's actually get mukht/liberated from becoming shaheed, as Gurbani provides no evidence of this?

I understand that the Chali Mukte got liberated by Satguru Sri Gobind Singh Ji, and other shaheeds like Baba Banda Singh Bahadur. But lets forget puratan times because I know all the shaheeds then were brahm gianis but what about from 1984 and ownards? The reason I am asking this is because I recently attended an akath katha where the guy was standing up and explaining how to meet Vaheguru through Gurbani. He even went to explain what manmat is, showing a presentation slide full of manmat 'tools' like a mala and presented Gurbani pangtiya which state and show that using a mala is wrong. However what struck me most is when the guy doing the katha clearly stated that someone who becomes 'shaheed' will not get liberated and not meet Truth, as they have not recognized naam. As before, he presented the Gurbani pangti to prove what he is saying. I can't remember the pangti in Gurmukhi but it translates in English to something like "and they who die on the battlefield, will also not become liberated". It translated to something along those lines. I personally think that he misused the pangti to suit his own needs for the sake of the presentation. But thats what I want to know, is it true that a Shaheed won't get mukht? Is he just dying for the sake of the panth? However before I heard many times that Guru Gobind Singh Ji said something along the lines of "He who dies fighting for the panth will instantly get a throne in my kingdom, or God's kingdom" even though I haven't found a direct source to this. Is this true? Did Satguru Ji say this? I'm surprised nobody in the sangat spoke out against this, they all seemed to be under some kind of control as they guy seemed pretty intimidating to say the least.

. Is this from a PMKC diwan by any chance
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why don't you look to the Gurus? Why does everyone look at so and so baba, this baba and that baba who use mala? When did the Guru ever use a mala? When did the Guru ever permit anybody to use a mala? Sant Mahapurakhs who use mala may use one for their own reason, not for concentration. I have no problem with people using mala, whether they think it helps them or not but I dont like when they say its ok to use one because it encourages others to do so, when Gurbani doesn't say its ok.

What would be a Sant/Mahapurshs own reasons be for using a mala? On one hand you have no problem with people using a mala, but then you say it's not ok to use one. Sounds like you are pro and con with Malas or are you confused as to if one can be used or not?

My grandmothers cousin used to hold a mala most times I saw her. She never listened to what anybody tried to tell, was always doing simran with her mala. I remember her supporting me in some sad times, although she was a bit stubborn but her love and sharda in Waheguru was lovely to see. Miss my grandma and her ?

Oh I forgot, she lived up to over 100 years old, she was lucky God graced her so many years to do simran.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Apart from Wahiguru, everything is "koorr", as everything is transient and perisahble.

The Bani says : Koor raja, koor parja, koor sab sansaar, koor koore neho laga, visria kartar, kis nal kije dosti, sab jag chalanhaar. ...

When people talk of dharam, let us not forget that, the real dharam is righteuosness, is duty also, and for each and everyone of us, our only dharam is to secure ourselves by merging our surtees in Him.

So real dharam starts very much first with ourselves.

We do nothing for ourselves, and we are set out to do something for our culture, our community, our land, our nation, our this, our that....when we very well know through the Bani, that all that is absolutely"koorr", which will one day pass away for sure sooner or later, so in the end it means, it is all maya....

And we proudly waste away our pricelss human life .... It is not of being coward, but neither stupid manmukh.

We should definetely fight evil or unjustice if the chance arises, but being consciouss, that nothing should stop me from doing pooran bhakti of Wahiguru, through His Simran and Dhyan.

If we dedicate ourselves to Him solely, then we need not being fearful of anything, as Fifth Patshahee beautifully tells us in Raag Bhairao:

ayk tayk ayko aaDhaar
The One and only Lord is my Support and Protection.

But to get this support and protection from Him, can only be possible if we wholeheartdley devote ourselves at His Lotus Feet, without looking here or there.

What the world does, matters very little. We have to see for ourselves if we secure ourselves by fulfilling our objective of coming into the human form, for His realization only.

Then the other issue of malas .... I very much agree with you Gupt jee, Guru sahibans though seen in the paintings with malas, I think they did not need malas nor used them.

Because malas are used to gather out sacttered attention while sitting to meditate and try to concentrate it on the Gurmanter within, and tune ourselves with the Shabad Dhun, the celestial melody of Naam within.

Guru Sahibans are the embodiment of purity itself, of Wahiguru Himself, they are always in tune with Naam within, though outside they may mingle with us and look doing things like us.

But there is nothing wrong if anyone needs the support of a mala to gather his/her attention and withold it with Simran, until we get spiritual maturity, and then we shall not need it anymore.

Some children learn to walk by themselves, some by holding the parents fingers, and still some need the help of walkers, and so these later ones, once feel stronger and with confidence in themselves, will surely leave these walkers, but the thing is, not to depend on these walkers, but keeping in mind that it is only temporary until i learn to be confident and walk by myself

Then the moment our Simran gets puccaa, we get hold by the Shabad Guru within, and our hands will automatically stop rotating the mala.

This is the purpose of His Dhyan and Simran.

Mala by itself is nothing more than an aid for the spiritual student, to fulfill the purpose of recollecting the scattered attention from the world, and focus within on the Gurmanter more efficiently.

That is it.

Sat Sree Akal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because it's clearly manmat! How can you not understand this? If you are doing something in your own way, something which Gurbani does not state then it is of course manmat. How is a mala going to help you focus???? Guru Nanak says: Dhun Meh Dhyan, Dhyan Meh Janiya, Akath Katha Kahani. The way is to listen to the dhun, the sound and focus on it. Now tell me if you are using a mala then where is your attention going to?? The sound or your hand/finger movement moving the mala??? Your attention is obviously going to the hand/finger movement of the mala so how can you follow Guru Nanak's pangti that way? If you wanna do your manmat by all means do it, but stop encouraging others to do it as well. Plus nowhere in Gurbani does it say to calculate your jaaps either. If you can provide a single pangti as to where a mala is allowed then by all means to it. Bhagat Kabir Ji also says that the mala is his tongue, in a pangti. So where's proof the bhagats had malas? Even if they or mahapurakhs did use them, that was probably for their own reasons. We shouldn't look at them and compare ourselves to them because we are still on Khalsa Panth stage, they are on a whole different stage. There's another pangti which says that those mahapurakhs are on such a stage where their actions have no good or bad in them.

Personal inabilities is no benchmark. No where in Gurbani does it say malaa is wrong. Gurbani says how others have used it in the past were wrong making the mallaa worthless to them. Gurbani says as a girl walks and laughs with her friends and yet keeps her attention on the pitcher of water from spilling is how we Sikhs are to keep doing simran. These new aged Sikhs have no clue what Gurbani says. They make up their own theories on what Gurbani is saying. Calling them fanatics is actually giving them credit. They are beyond fanatics and i don't even know how to describe them. If counting is wrong in Gurmat. Then not counting should also apply to giving charity. Yet these same new breed will find the smallest coin in there pocket to give to charity. Why don't you close your eyes and place the note into the charity box? What are you worried about? God will take care of you.

Only Guru Sahib has the approval hammer to say who is a shaheed and what is the standard to earn this title. Again no veechar on Gurbani is done and all these wild and completely absurd teachings are forced on Sikhs by these new breed of Sikhs. They define Naam simran as only repeating his name by mouth. They dont even know a glimpse of what Naam is. Yet they use this word in every post they post here. Talk about being confused. If it was left up to them, everyone would be burning in hell because they get excited to see people fail and be in pain. I am completely disgusted by these people. Anyone who sacrifices the mind to Akal Purkh is a Shaheed. No one knows what was on the shaheed mind when he gave his life for Gurmat. Only Akal Purkh knows.

If you want to subject shaheeds to be bound in a human form. then give me your address because you must be Akal Purkh and only Akal Purkh will know the state of mind of the shaheed. I want to bow down to you and give you my head. Let me know if you are ready to receive it.

Next these new breed sikhs will say a prayer mat is wrong. Its a piece of cloth which prevents dust from getting on to the clothes of the reader and gutka sahib. And the malaa is a helping device to repeat his naam for some. And if you still dont understand. Show me where in Gurbani it says to wear clothing? Are you not comfortable of how God made you???? Gurbani says you came naked and you go naked. Bring your preacher and lets see how fast he starts undressing. And i will present Gurbani where it says there is no point of wearing clothing. Once presented you malaa haters better start undressing right away. I am not joking here. You want to stop others from meditating, be ready to face the consequences.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personal inabilities is no benchmark. No where in Gurbani does it say malaa is wrong. Gurbani says how others have used it in the past were wrong making the mallaa worthless to them. Gurbani says as a girl walks and laughs with her friends and yet keeps her attention on the pitcher of water from spilling is how we Sikhs are to keep doing simran. These new aged Sikhs have no clue what Gurbani says. They make up their own theories on what Gurbani is saying. Calling them fanatics is actually giving them credit. They are beyond fanatics and i don't even know how to describe them. If counting is wrong in Gurmat. Then not counting should also apply to giving charity. Yet these same new breed will find the smallest coin in there pocket to give to charity. Why don't you close your eyes and place the note into the charity box? What are you worried about? God will take care of you.

Only Guru Sahib has the approval hammer to say who is a shaheed and what is the standard to earn this title. Again no veechar on Gurbani is done and all these wild and completely absurd teachings are forced on Sikhs by these new breed of Sikhs. They define Naam simran as only repeating his name by mouth. They dont even know a glimpse of what Naam is. Yet they use this word in every post they post here. Talk about being confused. If it was left up to them, everyone would be burning in hell because they get excited to see people fail and be in pain. I am completely disgusted by these people. Anyone who sacrifices the mind to Akal Purkh is a Shaheed. No one knows what was on the shaheed mind when he gave his life for Gurmat. Only Akal Purkh knows.

If you want to subject shaheeds to be bound in a human form. then give me your address because you must be Akal Purkh and only Akal Purkh will know the state of mind of the shaheed. I want to bow down to you and give you my head. Let me know if you are ready to receive it.

Next these new breed sikhs will say a prayer mat is wrong. Its a piece of cloth which prevents dust from getting on to the clothes of the reader and gutka sahib. And the malaa is a helping device to repeat his naam for some. And if you still dont understand. Show me where in Gurbani it says to wear clothing? Are you not comfortable of how God made you???? Gurbani says you came naked and you go naked. Bring your preacher and lets see how fast he starts undressing. And i will present Gurbani where it says there is no point of wearing clothing. Once presented you malaa haters better start undressing right away. I am not joking here. You want to stop others from meditating, be ready to face the consequences.

Good post.

People that use a mala don't necessarily count, good to see you understand the purpose of it.

"Gurbani says as a girl walks and laughs with her friends and yet keeps her attention on the pitcher of water from spilling is how we Sikhs are to keep doing simran. "

ਆਨੀਲੇ ਕੁੰਭੁ ਭਰਾਈਲੇ ਊਦਕ ਰਾਜ ਕੁਆਰਿ ਪੁਰੰਦਰੀਏ ॥

आनीले कु्मभु भराईले ऊदक राज कुआरि पुरंदरीए ॥

Ānīle kumbẖ bẖarā▫īle ūḏak rāj ku▫ār puranḏrī▫e.

The young girl in the city brings pitcher and fills it with water.

ਹਸਤ ਬਿਨੋਦ ਬੀਚਾਰ ਕਰਤੀ ਹੈ ਚੀਤੁ ਸੁ ਗਾਗਰਿ ਰਾਖੀਅਲੇ ॥੨॥

हसत बिनोद बीचार करती है चीतु सु गागरि राखीअले ॥२॥

Hasaṯ binoḏ bīcẖār karṯī hai cẖīṯ so gāgar rākẖī▫ale. ||2||

She laughs, makes merry and converses, but keeps her mind fixed in the pitcher.

SGGS Ang 972

Bhagat Namdev ji ??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Today I was just going through the Bani of First Patshahee in Sidh Gosht, and I feel, His following sweet words, are not only the answer for the shaheeds, but for anybody who wishes to become one with Him.

Becuase the topic in this thread is if the shaheeds get mukti.

But let us ask ourselves, why limit this beautful state to shaheeds only, or is it that, there is a nother method or way of getting mukti for the rest of the people or jeevas?

Mukti is the same, irrespective of one´s faith or business or profession. Mukti is a state of purity, a level of consciousness, achieved by associating ourselves with the Supreme Truth within us, through His Simran, it is not something to speculate about.

Shame on those who try to divert the attention on useless irrelevant views.

So following are the paviter words of Sachay Patshah Baba Nanak :

ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਕਿਉ ਸਾਚਿ ਸਮਾਵੈ

Naanak Bin Naavai Kio Saach Samaavai

नानक बिनु नावै किउ साचि समावै

O Nanak, without the Name, how can one be absorbed in Truth?

After reading these words full of wisdom of our beloved Guru Jee , what else is left to talk, explain, or debate about ?

I think He can not be more explicit. He clearly says that without Naam (Simran), how can we ever merge in that Supreme Truth, namely Wahiguru.

So, it is through Gurbani, that we come to know and understand, that if mukti or liberation can ever be achieved, it is by His Simran or meditation on Him, be it shaheed or anyone...if not, then do whatever we may, we shall remain for sure in the Cycle of Eighty Four, in this Mayavee creation.

Sat Sree Akal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share


  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • yeh it's true, we shouldn't be lazy and need to learn jhatka shikaar. It doesn't help some of grew up in surrounding areas like Slough and Southall where everyone thought it was super bad for amrit dharis to eat meat, and they were following Sant babas and jathas, and instead the Singhs should have been normalising jhatka just like the recent world war soldiers did. We are trying to rectifiy this and khalsa should learn jhatka.  But I am just writing about bhog for those that are still learning rehit. As I explained, there are all these negative influences in the panth that talk against rehit, but this shouldn't deter us from taking khanda pahul, no matter what level of rehit we are!
    • How is it going to help? The link is of a Sikh hunter. Fine, but what good does that do the lazy Sikh who ate khulla maas in a restaurant? By the way, for the OP, yes, it's against rehit to eat khulla maas.
    • Yeah, Sikhs should do bhog of food they eat. But the point of bhog is to only do bhog of food which is fit to be presented to Maharaj. It's not maryada to do bhog of khulla maas and pretend it's OK to eat. It's not. Come on, bro, you should know better than to bring this Sakhi into it. Is this Sikh in the restaurant accompanied by Guru Gobind Singh ji? Is he fighting a dharam yudh? Or is he merely filling his belly with the nearest restaurant?  Please don't make a mockery of our puratan Singhs' sacrifices by comparing them to lazy Sikhs who eat khulla maas.
    • Seriously?? The Dhadi is trying to be cute. For those who didn't get it, he said: "Some say Maharaj killed bakras (goats). Some say he cut the heads of the Panj Piyaras. The truth is that they weren't goats. It was she-goats (ਬਕਰੀਆਂ). He jhatka'd she-goats. Not he-goats." Wow. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard in relation to Sikhi.
    • Instead of a 9 inch or larger kirpan, take a smaller kirpan and put it (without gatra) inside your smaller turban and tie the turban tightly. This keeps a kirpan on your person without interfering with the massage or alarming the masseuse. I'm not talking about a trinket but rather an actual small kirpan that fits in a sheath (you'll have to search to find one). As for ahem, "problems", you could get a male masseuse. I don't know where you are, but in most places there are professional masseuses who actually know what they are doing and can really relieve your muscle pains.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use