How To Wear Kirpan

[88singh]

So, if there are no restrictions for women to wear a dastar, why did the two girls at the catholic school make such a lot of fuss regarding their dastars? Why do sikhs send such confusing messages to everyone, I have no idea? If a dastar for an amritdhari is mandatory then surely it is also mandatory for both genders according to

http://www.sikhanswers.com/sikh-articles-of-faith-identity/sikh-women-turban-dastaar/

Is this the paragraph you are referring to?
"It is more common for a man to wear a turban, and there is no restriction for women to cover their hair. "
image.jpeg

From reading it, it doesn't state that a woman cannot wear a turban, as the paragraph above says "While it is not one of the Five Ks, wearing a turban is mandatory for an Amritdhari Sikh. It is decreed to be an integral part of the body and makes up part of the Sikh identity. "
If any Sikh female is facing or has had discrimination, then they should contact Sikh Council UK, if in UK, or their countries Representative body of Sikhs.
http://sikhcounciluk.org

I was also reading this and was confused. What do you think?

[simran345]

So, if there are no restrictions for women to wear a dastar, why did the two girls at the catholic school make such a lot of fuss regarding their dastars? Why do sikhs send such confusing messages to everyone, I have no idea? If a dastar for an amritdhari is mandatory then surely it is also mandatory for both genders according to

http://www.sikhanswers.com/sikh-articles-of-faith-identity/sikh-women-turban-dastaar/

I was also reading this and was confused. What do you think?

Yes it is confusing, and I think the Sikh Council UK should be made aware of it.

I will also message them to notify them of this.

[guptsinghji]

Gupt singh dont tuck the kirpan into your trousers (would be uncomfortable) other singhs have provided you with options available to you.

I been struggling so I wear a very small kirpan which is not even a proper shaster so ice decided to wear a kirpan at but at work I have to present smartly with shirt tucked in.

Please explain what is easiest way! Can someone show images so I get better understanding

[InderjitS]

Small Gatra and min 6 inch kirpan, don't see what's complex about it? Like someone else mentioned been wearing like this for yonks at work under my shirt, no need to tuck in trousers, would be rather uncomfortable when sitting down.

[harkirat23]

I been struggling so I wear a very small kirpan which is not even a proper shaster so ice decided to wear a kirpan at but at work I have to present smartly with shirt tucked in.

Please explain what is easiest way! Can someone show images so I get better understand

"Jab lag Khalsa rahe niara,

tab lag tej dio mai sara,

jab eh gahe bipran ki reet,

mai na karo in ki parteet."

~Guru Gobind Singh Ji

Wear it how Gursant Singh is wearing it in this video!! He looks very smart. Wear a jacket on the top if you wear a suit to work. Try it out in any case.

The link is only to give you some idea as to how a kirpan can be worn over a shirt to look smart.

[simran345]

So, if there are no restrictions for women to wear a dastar, why did the two girls at the catholic school make such a lot of fuss regarding their dastars? Why do sikhs send such confusing messages to everyone, I have no idea? If a dastar for an amritdhari is mandatory then surely it is also mandatory for both genders according to

http://www.sikhanswers.com/sikh-articles-of-faith-identity/sikh-women-turban-dastaar/

I was also reading this and was confused. What do you think?

88singh Ji and Singhnihk Ji I contacted basics of Sikhi regarding this and Sikh council uk. And Basics of Sikhi replied back, that it seems the paragraphs have been based from the Akaal Takhat Sikh Maryada.

Also you asked if a dastaar wearing woman would be covered by those paragraphs. From my understanding of reading the first paragraph, I would think yes, as it says Amritdhari Sikhs, therefore an Amritdhari woman would come into that description.

Hope that has helped your query.

[spareribs]

88singh Ji and Singhnihk Ji I contacted basics of Sikhi regarding this and Sikh council uk. And Basics of Sikhi replied back, that it seems the paragraphs have been based from the Akaal Takhat Sikh Maryada.

Also you asked if a dastaar wearing woman would be covered by those paragraphs. From my understanding of reading the first paragraph, I would think yes, as it says Amritdhari Sikhs, therefore an Amritdhari woman would come into that description.

Hope that has helped your query.

Do they have any idea how the courts interpret and apply legislation/statute to a case before them? They look at the wording of the statute when they interpret and apply it. I can't see any references made, directly or indirectly, to amritdhari women/females/girls/ladies etc in this piece of document in order to protect their right to wear a dastar! Does this piece of document contain any notes to tell us anything about the intentions of its author or authors? There is no mention of amritdhari women.

[simran345]

Do they have any idea how the courts interpret and apply legislation/statute to a case before them? They look at the wording of the statute when they interpret and apply it. I can't see any references made, directly or indirectly, to amritdhari women/females/girls/ladies etc in this piece of document in order to protect their right to wear a dastar! Does this piece of document contain any notes to tell us anything about the intentions of its author or authors? There is no mention of amritdhari women.

I'm sorry spareribs Ji, neither am I a lawyer or do I know why.

You are welcome to ask these same questions to them, as they will be able to give you a better answer than me. With all due respect, It's no good asking me, I didn't compile it and I have no experience of this, so I wouldn't even know where to start on legislation.

You can see the guidance for yourself, I've put the link on.

I also agree it is confusing, If you feel there is something that is wrong with it, then you can contact the appropriate organisations. Sorryji I don't know what else advice to give.

[spareribs]

I'm sorry spareribs Ji, neither am I a lawyer or do I know why.

You are welcome to ask these same questions to them, as they will be able to give you a better answer than me. With all due respect, It's no good asking me, I didn't compile it and I have no experience of this, so I wouldn't even know where to start on legislation.

You can see the guidance for yourself, I've put the link on.

I also agree it is confusing, If you feel there is something that is wrong with it, then you can contact the appropriate organisations. Sorryji I don't know what else advice to give.

My question was actually directed at the Akal Takht Maryada (people), and not you, penji. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I was just thinking when they instructed the people who composed this document, why did they fail to take amritdhari women into account? Surely, they should have taken them into account for future purposes, don't you think? I have amritdhari friends and they often get asked this question, why do they wear turbans, they are women? What will happen when they start going for job interviews? Surely, their future interviewers are going to wonder why are they wearing turbans, when this document says there are no restrictions as far as amritdhari women are concerned. The maryada people that helped to prepare this document should have used some foresight to accommodate women too for the future purposes, don't you agree?

If amritdhari women can wear a kirpan and is given protection under the law, then why have they left out the turban aspect of being an amritdhari women? I sometimes find we really need to do away with gender discrimination culturally, honestly.

I am truly sorry about the misunderstanding, I hope you are not cross with me.

[simran345]

My question was actually directed at the Akal Takht Maryada (people), and not you, penji. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I was just thinking when they instructed the people who composed this document, why did they fail to take amritdhari women into account? Surely, they should have taken them into account for future purposes, don't you think? I have amritdhari friends and they often get asked this question, why do they wear turbans, they are women? What will happen when they start going for job interviews? Surely, their future interviewers are going to wonder why are they wearing turbans, when this document says there are no restrictions as far as amritdhari women are concerned. The maryada people that helped to prepare this document should have used some foresight to accommodate women too for the future purposes, don't you agree?

If amritdhari women can wear a kirpan and is given protection under the law, then why have they left out the turban aspect of being an amritdhari women? I sometimes find we really need to do away with gender discrimination culturally, honestly.

I am truly sorry about the misunderstanding, I hope you are not cross with me.

spareribs ji, no why would I be cross with you? You know more about this than me. I thought the same thing as you too, and I'm not in any position to advise on it, but if you want my opinion as you asked, I feel it could have been worded differently, to rule out the confusion.

I think it's not a clear cut definition, but they have Amritdhari Sikhs written , I'm assuming both men and women would come under that description.

The next paragraph starting, " It is more common for a man to wear a turban, and there is no restriction for women to cover their hair. "

it specifically says it's more common for a man to wear a turban, which I feel should include women too. The rest from my understanding is explaining, women that do not wear turban/dastaar cover their hair in other ways, so they are not discriminated against from covering their hair.

What would you like to do? I've already messaged Basics of Sikhi and put my reply on, but if others apart from me make them aware of it, then they may see it as a cause for concern. Also I really don't know how to and if I should be intervening in The Akaal Takhat Maryada as I do not know what my rights are concerning this, I wouldn't even know how to word my case to them. I'm worried I may say the wrong thing, thus the reason, I've not pursued it further. Sorry ji, maf kardo I'm not a Sikh scholar, just a normal anonymous poster on this forum that does not have any status to make any decision. I have pointed it out to a Sikh organisation, and left it with them to deal with how they wish. That's the best I can do Ji.