Goodbye Forever': How Religion Treats Apostates

[jkvlondon]

Is this just another example of what happens when families compel their children to keep kesh despite the adult children not really having any religious feelings?

Parents have to try their best obviously, but as adults, it's a persons choice.

Better this than a person putting on a sham throughout their adult life to please people, despite having no internalised belief. That's when you get dastaar wearing people secretly drinking, smoking and whatnot.

the bache are not OURS they belong to Guru ji so we have no right to destroy their saroop

I wonder if people who claim to be atheist are actually agnostic?

most people from sikhi background who falters it's because of doubt not certainty of Waheguru's absence

[dallysingh101]

the bache are not OURS they belong to Guru ji so we have no right to destroy their saroop

I thought we were talking about when they do it themselves as adults like in the OP?

[jkvlondon]

I thought we were talking about when they do it themselves as adults like in the OP?

you kind of sounded like you thought it would be better to not keep sikhi saroop of people from childhood and then expect them to take it on as adults ...

[dallysingh101]

you kind of sounded like you thought it would be better to not keep sikhi saroop of people from childhood and then expect them to take it on as adults ...

No, I was talking about adults. My point was that if they don't believe, it's better they don't put on a show for the public and live a double life.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

I wonder if people who claim to be atheist are actually agnostic?

No, even they aren't certain there's no God, they are still not Agnostics because Agnostics have no view or bias on whether there is a God or not. Atheists don't believe either way.

[JSinghnz]

There are plenty of ex-Sikhs who possess knowledge of the Sikh Dharam, but who leave the faith regardless. Resorting to ^this^ tired platitude in the face of every apostasy trivializes people's experiences and suffering. This young man didn't cut his hair because he was some clown who thought it would help him get the girls - if he was, he wouldn't have decided to start posting on an atheist forum. It's clear that he couldn't reconcile his rationality with his faith, and he deserves to be taken seriously. It's not easy to be forced to give up something which has been the bedrock of your existence for 20 years.

No, it is just another example of what happens when parents do not give any knowledge to their children about Sikhi.

The children of these parents should start taking some responsibility for themselves. They're not being remotely-controlled by mum and dad, there is nothing stopping them from learning Bani or Itihaas for themselves, like a lot of us had to do. Unless you're a little kid there is no excuse for not knowing your Sikhi, whether you have Gursikh parents, irreligious parents or no parents.

How can the children of ignorant parents start taking responsibility?

When there is no talk of Sikhi in a family, how on earth can the children learn to be one?

Children are not even taught their mother language Punjabi by the so called Sikh parents

and you expect the children to know Sikhi.

[Ranjeet01]

There's a few of our lot that fall into that camp. There's a yearning for spirituality; that pull towards something bigger than us, but they get bamboozled by the organised religion aspect of it ("Do this", "Don't do this"). So, they switch off completely and make it easier on themselves by declaring themselves atheist. It's quite sad in a way.

There is a difference between dogma and belief in an ultimate creator.

As kids our belief in God is a very simplistic one, but when you read/listen to Gurbani or even read the Mool Mantar you realise our comprehension is so limited. Our belief in an ultimate creator is based from a Human experience ( can be quite egotistical/selfish in my opinion) what we can get from God.

What makes Sikhi unique is that when I first tried to read Japji Sahib (in English) , you see things from Waheguru's point of view. What you realise is that Waheguru is talking to the whole universe, it completely blew my mind.

An atheist should at least believe in the Universe and the Universe is also part of the Akal.

[MisterrSingh]

There is a difference between dogma and belief in an ultimate creator.

I agree, but the hostility towards all matters of faith from certain quarters is quite strong, so that even belief in an impartial (non-denomination) creator is viewed as a sign of unsophistication or simple-mindedness.

People being what they are - more so in current times - the desire to fit in and not cause waves for something as apparently controversial as religious belief, means that many forgo the rigmarole of religion altogether, without trying to find that middle ground of believing in a force / creator, but not necessarily attaching oneself to a particular faith.

It's actually one of the reasons I've observed most people dismiss Sikhi as just another religion. Some of the blame for this lies with us (we're sitting on a treasure trove of spiritual knowledge), because we won't, or we've been unable to, disseminate the core Sikh teachings to the wider world. Instead, we've allowed the likes of Islam and Hinduism - and their followers - to drag us down to their base levels, whereas Sikhi is far and away a philosophy and path that surpasses both IMO. That's not my bias speaking, but something I believe to be absolutely true.

[N30S1NGH]

Most people are pushed away from sikhi not because they find faults in sikhi (sikhi is flawless dharam), but rather the way its presented to them by our community with its own cultural political divisive baggage.. It's bit unfortunate they were unable to see pure truth -sat - sikhi behind all baggage.They cannot be fully blamed for it as partial blame lies also lack of parchar and our sub standard collective consciousness of our community which has gone slumber down totally contrary to gurmat ideals enshrined in akaal ustat/gurbani.

Sikhi is turiya (fourth dimension- non dual pure consciousness knowledge ) path its total non dual way of being, cannot be confined to only cultural baggage/community/judeo abhramic notions etc.

[StarStriker]

I find it odd none of u pointed out how this crap article wrote the usual propaganda garbage of "sikhism is a monotheistic religion with roots in Hinduism and Islam". As soon as i read that, the article was doomed.

Then it states at the bottom of the article that the author of the article, rodney wilson, "holds master's degrees in history and in religion". Wow!