Guru Nanak Was God?

[genie]

I been viewing a few clips of jagraj singh from basics of sikhi and he mentions in a few videos that Guru Nanak was God? When he debates muslims, which I believe to be a fundamental mistake. Also in my view it is a totally wrong approach to take with a muslim cos they automatically get disinterested when someone is associating God with "partners" as it is the biggest sin in islam according to them its called "shirk".

From my understanding of gurbani and sikh scriptures Guru Nanak Dev Ji was not God and he even states he is a servant / slave of God and it is God whom he worships and sings his glory of.

So why is Jagraj mentioning that Guru Ji was God? It totally contradicts Guru Ji himself and the very notion of core Sikh beliefs that there is only 1 God.

We are not Christians that believe Jesus is 3 in 1 where a physical God can suffer pain, die and get resurrected yet worship another God. Or Muslims who believe in a God sitting on a throne above the 7 skies outside his creation. We believe that God (consciousness) resides in every soul, every living being and outside it out in the realms of existence.

So I'm wondering why is jagraj / basics of sikhi coming to this illogical conclusion?

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji was Vaheguru, the verses about him being a servant is mostly humility. "ਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਰੂਪ ॥੮॥੧॥

Guru Nanak is embodiment of the Light of God.

(Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ang 1192)" we can't compare Jesus to Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji because Jesus is only 1/3 of God, while Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji was 100% Vaheguru.

[InderjitS]

I been viewing a few clips of jagraj singh from basics of sikhi and he mentions in a few videos that Guru Nanak was God? When he debates muslims, which I believe to be a fundamental mistake. Also in my view it is a totally wrong approach to take with a muslim cos they automatically get disinterested when someone is associating God with "partners" as it is the biggest sin in islam according to them its called "shirk".

From my understanding of gurbani and sikh scriptures Guru Nanak Dev Ji was not God and he even states he is a servant / slave of God and it is God whom he worships and sings his glory of.

So why is Jagraj mentioning that Guru Ji was God? It totally contradicts Guru Ji himself and the very notion of core Sikh beliefs that there is only 1 God.

We are not Christians that believe Jesus is 3 in 1 where a physical God can suffer pain, die and get resurrected yet worship another God. Or Muslims who believe in a God sitting on a throne above the 7 skies outside his creation. We believe that God (consciousness) resides in every soul, every living being and outside it out in the realms of existence.

So I'm wondering why is jagraj / basics of sikhi coming to this illogical conclusion?

Satguru and the Vaheguru are the same:

gur paramaesar eaek hai sabh mehi rehiaa samaae ||

The Guru and the Transcendent Lord are one and the same, pervading and permeating amongst all.

Guru Arjan Dev Ji

Siree Raag

Ang 53 - Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

gur paarabreham eaekai hee jaanae ||2||

one sees the Guru and the Supreme Lord God as one and the same. ||2||

Guru Arjan Dev Ji

Raag Raamkalee

Ang 887 - Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

There are more quotes such as this.

[genie]

Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji was Vaheguru, the verses about him being a servant is mostly humility. "ਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਰੂਪ ॥੮॥੧॥

Guru Nanak is embodiment of the Light of God.

(Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ang 1192)" we can't compare Jesus to Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji because Jesus is only 1/3 of God, while Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji was 100% Vaheguru.

Does not answer the question.

ਹਮ ਆਦਮੀ ਹਾਂ ਇਕ ਦਮੀ ਮੁਹਲਤਿ ਮੁਹਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ॥

हम आदमी हां इक दमी मुहलति मुहतु न जाणा ॥

We are human beings of the briefest moment; we do not know the appointed time of our departure.

-Guru Nanak Dev Ji ( SGGS Ji ang 660, Line 11)

I can pull you up more verses where Guru Ji refers to himself as a human being

And in other verses Guru Ji then praises God as an external supreme being and mentions he (Guru Ji) can not even be a sacrifice for God meaning his value as a humble human being is so little and insignificant compared to the majesty of the almighty and all that he provides to his creation.

[InderjitS]

You are seeing Guru purely as physical form, Gurbani refers to Shabad Satguru which is eternal truth.

[ms514]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Watch 25:20 onwards to find out what Guru Sahib was.

[genie]

You are seeing Guru purely as physical form, Gurbani refers to Shabad Satguru which is eternal truth.

How would you explain what "shabad guru" is to a person doesn't know much about sikhi in the context of the question was Guru Nanak God?

To me I can explain it very easily to a muslim or any other non-sikh because I don't believe Guru Ji was God in human form. I believe, from evidence from scriptures, that Guru Ji was speaking the reality and truth of God through his actions by showing the light of his magnetic preaching ability and brief powers God had given him to guide humanity to Sikhi.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Does not answer the question.

ਹਮ ਆਦਮੀ ਹਾਂ ਇਕ ਦਮੀ ਮੁਹਲਤਿ ਮੁਹਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ॥

हम आदमी हां इक दमी मुहलति मुहतु न जाणा ॥

We are human beings of the briefest moment; we do not know the appointed time of our departure.

-Guru Nanak Dev Ji ( SGGS Ji ang 660, Line 11)

I can pull you up more verses where Guru Ji refers to himself as a human being

And in other verses Guru Ji then praises God as an external supreme being and mentions he (Guru Ji) can not even be a sacrifice for God meaning his value as a humble human being is so little and insignificant compared to the majesty of the almighty and all that he provides to his creation.

Do you believe Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji was humble? I'll take another example on people being able to see Vaheguru through a non-Satguru. There was a Muslim who once told Bhai Jeevan Singh from AKJ that he could see Allah, (Vaheguru) from him, Jeevan Singh humbly said that he wished to have his eyes, proving humility is a high concept. Also Sa'id Khan the brother-in-law of Pir Bhudhu Shah knelt his legs in the Islamic style prayer at the very presence of Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji proving that he is Allah, (Vaheguru), he was ordered to kill the Guru, but ended up surrendering his will and being someone who truly submits himself himself to God. (Don't listen to the idiotic Muslims today, they've only picked an choose what parts to follow), the very definition of Islam is to submit to God's will and how would they do that without accepting him?

[Guest Jacfsing2]

@Genie, what is your definition of Vaheguru and how do you view Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji?

[harsharan000]

Genie Jee,

the thing is, it is difficult to expalin something to someone/others, when oneself does not believe in it.

Then the point explaining to someone of Satguru Nanak Dev Maharaj was Wahiguru Himself, does not arise at all in any way.

First of all we are nobody, spiritually speaking. talking about these higher Truths, is not like explaining or teaching Maths or Geography for example.

The Bani says: to whom He wants, He gives that understanding with His Grace. It is not in man´s hand at all, as He is above any reason, He is Aparam Paar, He is Nirankar, He is Shabad ..... He is Satnam.

Who are we to explain? Who are we to understand ?

The Bani referring to pure spiritual beings like Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj, says:

Har ka sewak, so Har jeha, bhed na jaano manus deha.

At other place it also says:

Har Jee baseh Sadh ke hirday.

So you see, it is the Akhoot Jot, the Anhad Shabd is "pargat" in our beloved Guru Sahibans...in the Bhagat Jan, which make them the body/resident for a particular time being, as per means of comunicating with us human beings, to teach us Gurmat, to teach us sikhee...

Then, we also have to bear in mind that, even then too, we are so much manmukhs, that we do not even come to understand their teachings, nor recognize them, not even a 0.000001% of their infiite majesty. But then too, they are full of grace with us mugadhs/moorakhs. Because apart from grace and love, they have nothing in their spiritual heart account. They come with akhoot bahndars of Daya Meher to distribute among us jeevas.

We can never make justice to them even if we were to sing their glory/mahima all the 24 hours.....

Sat Sree Akal