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Muslim Friend Wants To Become A Sikh But She Has Questions


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Sikhs get criticized for their role in imperial British army:

https://youtu.be/iCUsl3EjQuI

Great share!

That Pat guy was one intelligent, informed and very socially conscious brother!

He was asking some seriously relevant and piercing questions!

It's very interesting to hear Jagraj say that he isn't very proud of Sikhs fighting in the British colonial army....hhmmmm

I have to add that I feel there was too much glossing over and idealising Sikh history by Jagraj in this video, and that other brother was sharp.

The problem with this glorifying approach is that anyone who is even a bit astute can look at Sikh society and history and point out umpteen cases of us doing the opposite of what we are preaching and highlighting.

That just highlights why we have to have our own house in order.

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Is all you can do is insult people?

Do you suffer from mental delusions? That could explain a lot. Look at the kind words from you from page 6 of this thread. Those living in glass houses should not be not be throwing stones at others.

Jacfsing2, on 10 Feb 2016 - 01:12, said:

He was predicted to win Iowa yet still lost, you're not very intelligent I presume.

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The Hindu gods are more analogous to superheroes than actual deities in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib. The Tenth King's Granth is the scripture of Bir Ras, the essence of the warrior, it's passages are supposed to be invoked in the heat of battle so that the Sikh can find courage. This is the only purpose of Chandi Di Vaar - to provide martial inspiration. Guru Sahib deliberately chose to include stories of Hindu mythological figures and their inspiring deeds because these were the sorts of tales and characters he could be certain that most of his followers were, to at least some degree, familiar with.

Sri Dasam Granth Sahib ji is supreme. Chandi Di Vaar is amazing and holds the essence to lift the listener out of maya and deliver them to Vaheguru. This is the Bani of the saint and the soldier. A Sikh's Guru is Satguru's Bani. Gurbani from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji says Satguru's Bani is Guru. To limit Satguru's Bani is one of the biggest mistakes made in ignorance. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji tells the true story of the devta and devis and so does Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Read Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and find out who saved Shiva. If Shiva was a mythological figure than who did the Guru save?

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Guest Jacfsing2

Sri Dasam Granth Sahib ji is supreme. Chandi Di Vaar is amazing and holds the essence to lift the listener out of maya and deliver them to Vaheguru. This is the Bani of the saint and the soldier. A Sikh's Guru is Satguru's Bani. Gurbani from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji says Satguru's Bani is Guru. To limit Satguru's Bani is one of the biggest mistakes made in ignorance. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji tells the true story of the devta and devis and so does Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Read Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and find out who saved Shiva. If Shiva was a mythological figure than who did the Guru save?

They were mythical creatures; what Guru Sahib was doing was teaching us a lesson.
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Guest Jacfsing2

Where in Gurbani does it say they (devta and Devi's) were mythical creatures?

It's obvious! "ਸ੍ਵੈਯਾ ॥

Swaiya

ਪਾਂਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋਊ ਆਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਆਨਯੋ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ ॥

Since the day I caught hold of your feet, I have not looked elsewhere; Ram, Rahin, Puranas, Quran many recite but even one does not understand.

ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਨ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਿਪਾਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੈ ਨ ਕਹਯੋ ਸਭ ਤੋਹਿ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥੮੬੩॥

The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas all describe many mysteries, but I do not know any of them. O sword-wielder God! All here has been described by your Grace; what can I say, it is as you have ordained (863)" (Are you on of those folk who believes in missionaries and Darshan Singh Ragi?)

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It's obvious! "ਸ੍ਵੈਯਾ ॥

Swaiya

ਪਾਂਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋਊ ਆਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਆਨਯੋ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ ॥

Since the day I caught hold of your feet, I have not looked elsewhere; Ram, Rahin, Puranas, Quran many recite but even one does not understand.

ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਨ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਿਪਾਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੈ ਨ ਕਹਯੋ ਸਭ ਤੋਹਿ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥੮੬੩॥

The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas all describe many mysteries, but I do not know any of them. O sword-wielder God! All here has been described by your Grace; what can I say, it is as you have ordained (863)" (Are you on of those folk who believes in missionaries and Darshan Singh Ragi?)

Nowhere in Chaupai Sahib, including the Gurbani above, which is part of Chaupai Sahib does it say devta or devis were mythical. Looking at the english translation you provided the words understand, mysteries does not even come in Gurmukhi. Since you brought Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Bani. Look at Krishna Avatar, show me where Guru Sahib said Krishna was mythical. No where does Guru Sahib say Krishna was mythical. Guru Sahib actually corrected the story of Krishna as where the Hindus were telling lies about who Krishna was. In Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, Guru Sahib says Indra and Brahma was saved.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ

ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ ਮਹਲਾ ਘਰੁ

ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਤਰੇ ਮੁਨਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਇੰਦ੍ਰਾਦਿਕ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾਦਿ ਤਰੇ

By the Guru's Shabad many Saints have swam across (have been saved). Indra and Brahma have also been saved by the Guru's Shabad.

ਸਨਕ ਸਨੰਦਨ ਤਪਸੀ ਜਨ ਕੇਤੇ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਪਾਰਿ ਪਰੇ ॥੧॥

Sanak, Sanadan, and many Bhagats by Guru Grace have been carried across to the other side.

ਭਵਜਲੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਕਿਉ ਤਰੀਐ

How can creation be saved without the Shabad Guru?

ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਜਗੁ ਰੋਗਿ ਬਿਆਪਿਆ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਡੁਬਿ ਡੁਬਿ ਮਰੀਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ

Without Naam the world is attached to the disease (ego, greed, lust, worldly attachments, anger). In doubt they drown and drown till they die. Pause. ang 1125

When looking at the whole picture of Devta and Devis. They have a long history of doing wrong and electing themselves as the Supreme Being. Guru Sahib through Gurbani tells us they were fallible and neither were they the Supreme Being (Akal Purakh). Reading Chandi Di Vaar, Indra was chased out of his kingdom by the demons. Then look who Indra went to for help!! Did he call upon Vaheguru? No! he went to the door of Chandi, another fallible person for help. Listen carefully to Bachhittar Natak, who does Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji call upon to give him the right to come down and rule as the Tenth Guru. Guru Sahib asked and received from Vaheguru. Why deny Devta and Devi ever existed, when the Sikh Gurus say they did exist at one point in time. Instruct Sikhs to follow the above Gurbani and no one will fall at the feet of Brahma, Indra or any other Devta or Devi.

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Guest Jacfsing2

Nowhere in Chaupai Sahib, including the Gurbani above, which is part of Chaupai Sahib does it say devta or devis were mythical. Looking at the english translation you provided the words understand, mysteries does not even come in Gurmukhi. Since you brought Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Bani. Look at Krishna Avatar, show me where Guru Sahib said Krishna was mythical. No where does Guru Sahib say Krishna was mythical. Guru Sahib actually corrected the story of Krishna as where the Hindus were telling lies about who Krishna was. In Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, Guru Sahib says Indra and Brahma was saved.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ

ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ ਮਹਲਾ ਘਰੁ

ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਤਰੇ ਮੁਨਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਇੰਦ੍ਰਾਦਿਕ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾਦਿ ਤਰੇ

By the Guru's Shabad many Saints have swam across (have been saved). Indra and Brahma have also been saved by the Guru's Shabad.

ਸਨਕ ਸਨੰਦਨ ਤਪਸੀ ਜਨ ਕੇਤੇ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਪਾਰਿ ਪਰੇ ॥੧॥

Sanak, Sanadan, and many Bhagats by Guru Grace have been carried across to the other side.

ਭਵਜਲੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਕਿਉ ਤਰੀਐ

How can creation be saved without the Shabad Guru?

ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਜਗੁ ਰੋਗਿ ਬਿਆਪਿਆ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਡੁਬਿ ਡੁਬਿ ਮਰੀਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ

Without Naam the world is attached to the disease (ego, greed, lust, worldly attachments, anger). In doubt they drown and drown till they die. Pause. ang 1125

When looking at the whole picture of Devta and Devis. They have a long history of doing wrong and electing themselves as the Supreme Being. Guru Sahib through Gurbani tells us they were fallible and neither were they the Supreme Being (Akal Purakh). Reading Chandi Di Vaar, Indra was chased out of his kingdom by the demons. Then look who Indra went to for help!! Did he call upon Vaheguru? No! he went to the door of Chandi, another fallible person for help. Listen carefully to Bachhittar Natak, who does Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji call upon to give him the right to come down and rule as the Tenth Guru. Guru Sahib asked and received from Vaheguru. Why deny Devta and Devi ever existed, when the Sikh Gurus say they did exist at one point in time. Instruct Sikhs to follow the above Gurbani and no one will fall at the feet of Brahma, Indra or any other Devta or Devi.

Indra doesn't believe in Vaheguru, (seriously it's not that hard, people used to worship Durga in the era before Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji). I know before Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji came on Earth people were blinded by darkness. Read the first line in Chand-Di-Vaar and you'll know it's all about Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji!
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Japji sahib

gavahi eesar barmaa dayvee sohan sadaa savaaray.

Shiva, Brahma and the Goddess of Beauty, ever adorned, sing.

gaavahi ind idaasan baithay dayviti-aa dar naalay.

Indra, seated upon His Throne, sings with the deities at Your Door.

kaytay barmay ghaarhat gharhee-ahi roop rang kay vays.

So many Brahmas, fashioning forms of great beauty, adorned and dressed in many colors.

kaytee-aa karam bhoomee mayr kaytay kaytay Dhoo updays.

So many worlds and lands for working out karma. So very many lessons to be learned!

kaytay ind chand soor kaytay kaytay mandal days.

So many Indras, so many moons and suns, so many worlds and lands.

kaytay siDh buDh naath kaytay kaytay dayvee vays.

So many Siddhas and Buddhas, so many Yogic masters. So many goddesses of various kinds.

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