Why Are Some Sikh Women Now Wearing The Turban?

[double-edge]

Those are precisely the sorts of images I am talking about. Those aren't keskis, they are very large topknots towards the back of the head.

When Sardar Baghel Singh marched into Delhi, the Mughal Shah Alam II came out to welcome him with his begams. A group of ten Singhniaan were invited to the begam's quarters, where these Sikh women fascinated the Shah's wives and courtesans with their talk of warfare, plunder and how to shoot missile weapons. Five of them were dressed like Nihang Singhs, the others wore dresses, heavy ornaments, heavy lower garments and top knots a hand-span-and-a-half in height. This description exactly fits those images you have provided. I find it strange that Bhai Manvir Singh resorts to those images in order to further his mistaken beliefs, especially since the woman on the left is clearly shown to be wearing many sets of golden bangles (Bhai Manvir Singh and most AKJ oppose the wearing of jewellry).

Actually they do look like keskis, covering a topknot, with chunnia to cover. The only reason a topknot would be so high is if it were intertwinned with material.. ie a bunga under a dastar. Balkaar it appears the eyes only see what ones mind wants them to see.

Guru jis hukam was for his sikhs to wear dastaaran. Guru sahib did not differentiate between man or woman.. sabat surat dastar sirran.

Women have discarded the dastar over time for the sake of fashion.

Bhai sahib bhai randhir singh ji and Akj brought a revival of this tat gurmat khalsa rehat.. much respect to them.

[Balkaar]

Actually they do look like keskis, covering a topknot, with chunnia to cover. The only reason a topknot would be so high is if it were intertwinned with material.. ie a bunga under a dastar. Balkaar it appears the eyes only see what ones mind wants them to see.

Guru jis hukam was for his sikhs to wear dastaaran. Guru sahib did not differentiate between man or woman.. sabat surat dastar sirran.

Women have discarded the dastar over time for the sake of fashion.

Bhai sahib bhai randhir singh ji and Akj brought a revival of this tat gurmat khalsa rehat.. much respect to them.

It is completely possible to get a high top-knot without the support of a nihang-style bunga. Many Jatt women also wore their hair in this fashion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jat_people#/media/File:JatGirlAllyghur1868.jpg

Mai Bhago was said to have adopted 'the dress of a man' during the Battle of Muktsar and worn it thereafter when she became one of Guru Gobind Singh's personal bodyguards. If it was commonplace for Sikh women to wear dastaars as well, this remark would not have been made. Nor would later European commentators have drawn attention to the fact that female Nihangs distinguished themselves from the majority of Sikh womanhood by wearing turbans.

[ms514]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

A) Can anyone here actually post evidence that Guru Sahib stated that women should not have Dastaars? 52 Hukams were not gender specific - one stated Dastaar bina nahi rehna and would apply to all Sikhs.

B) Anyone here care to contend that Sikhs were Amritdhari? Per history, the entire Khalsa Panth was divided into Budha Dal and Tarna Dal for administrative reasons, and then to the Misls. Thus, Amritdhari Sikhs = Nihang. The Nihang Bibian are still dastaardhari, and many contend maintain the original form and discipline of the Khalsa. Their Nitnem Gutka defines that every Gursikh man and woman (Singh and Singhni is the wording used) should have a blue keski in their hair.

C) Taksal Maryada is not gender specific in ordaining a double Dastaar. Sant Attar Singh/Sant Teja Singh were also proponents of Dastaars (Baru Sahib is a living testament to this). Many women in Taksal also tie Dastaars.

So question: Is the oldest Khalsa institution (the Nihangs) and the above Mahapurakhs and Stakar-jog Jathebandian wrong and promoting views that are not Gurmat? Does someone have a reference to where it was ordained that Amritdhari women were told Dastaar was optional?

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3901/14477778109_fd0081aef4_z.jpg

https://www.flickr.com/photos/navreetsingh/4647643068 - read story below picture as well.

[jkvlondon]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

A) Can anyone here actually post evidence that Guru Sahib stated that women should not have Dastaars? 52 Hukams were not gender specific - one stated Dastaar bina nahi rehna and would apply to all Sikhs.

B) Anyone here care to contend that Sikhs were Amritdhari? Per history, the entire Khalsa Panth was divided into Budha Dal and Tarna Dal for administrative reasons, and then to the Misls. Thus, Amritdhari Sikhs = Nihang. The Nihang Bibian are still dastaardhari, and many contend maintain the original form and discipline of the Khalsa. Their Nitnem Gutka defines that every Gursikh man and woman (Singh and Singhni is the wording used) should have a blue keski in their hair.

C) Taksal Maryada is not gender specific in ordaining a double Dastaar. Sant Attar Singh/Sant Teja Singh were also proponents of Dastaars (Baru Sahib is a living testament to this). Many women in Taksal also tie Dastaars.

So question: Is the oldest Khalsa institution (the Nihangs) and the above Mahapurakhs and Stakar-jog Jathebandian wrong and promoting views that are not Gurmat? Does someone have a reference to where it was ordained that Amritdhari women were told Dastaar was optional?

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3901/14477778109_fd0081aef4_z.jpg

https://www.flickr.com/photos/navreetsingh/4647643068 - read story below picture as well.

thing that I see is those dhiley men who want their bibian to do reesan of other dharam women put false arguments up. When I had amrit Panj Piarey (including Bhai Rama Singh ji) they told us naam is our gaenna not jewellery , I thought that was beautiful , naam is the most valuable thing in this life , but when people do kintu prantu about this hukham it makes me sad it shows that they are tied deeply to maya not naam. I am also in Waheguru's presence just as much as my brothers and husband and I have been given hukam to stand out from other women just as much as they have to stand out from other men. Joorda has to be tied at dasam duar again hukham of Panj Piarey as kesh and kanga are shingar of Dasam Duar too . For the brother that thinks bibian used to do uchhey joorda then just throw a chunni on top , believe that it is impossible to do kam kaj of household without hair becoming uncovered/dirty (think dust and pattey etc from fodder) and for that reason plus the fact that you can see different colour dastars drawn on the paintings I know that my bazurg bibian tied dastars as Guru Pita ji told us to wear not one but two dastars, to keep kesh clean, in fact to comb hair two times a day and tie dastar from fresh . In history we know bibian were killed and their heads sold when the hindus and muslims wanted bounties when they couldn't find the men... if these women dressed as others how would they get picked out?

[double-edge]

It is completely possible to get a high top-knot without the support of a nihang-style bunga. Many Jatt women also wore their hair in this fashion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jat_people#/media/File:JatGirlAllyghur1868.jpg

Mai Bhago was said to have adopted 'the dress of a man' during the Battle of Muktsar and worn it thereafter when she became one of Guru Gobind Singh's personal bodyguards. If it was commonplace for Sikh women to wear dastaars as well, this remark would not have been made. Nor would later European commentators have drawn attention to the fact that female Nihangs distinguished themselves from the majority of Sikh womanhood by wearing turbans.

Your views of sikhi and rehat are based on what the english and europeans wrote. How sad.

[jkvlondon]

There was a fashion also of sagee phul my mum told me about but it does not seem these pictures are that ( larger central dome then two smaller domes )...

[Balkaar]

Your views of sikhi and rehat are based on what the english and europeans wrote. How sad.

Lol.

Our Guru tells us to pursue truth in all things. This includes our itihaas, no matter how inconvenient the truths of our history may be to our own personal agendas.

Some of you still don't seem to understand the point I am making. I never said that no Sikh woman ever wore a dastaar, I never said that it's inappropriate for a bibi to wear a dastaar. My point is that the situation now, where most bibiaan do not wear a dastaar, is not unlike how it has been throughout our history.

The AKJ Rehat is the one that was fabricated by British influenced Sikhs, playing pick and mix with the Nihang Rehat by taking bits they liked (keski, sarbloh bibek) and abhorring those elements which were in conflict with their revisionist policies (jhatka, raagmala/raag kirtan). The Nihangs may have been around since Puraatan times, but so has the Damdami Taksaal. Why do they not require their women to wear keskis? I refuse to believe that a group founded in the 20th century is better placed to access the truths of our history than one which came into existence with the physical blessing of Dashmesh Pitaa himself. It is also worth mentioning that not even the Nihang Singhs make the assertion that the dastaar is mandatory for all Sikh women. No puraatan, historic samparda does.

[jkvlondon]

Your views of sikhi and rehat are based on what the english and europeans wrote. How sad.

when Mai Bhago was wandering in state of parama hans , laparva of her personal dress/condition, SIkhs told Guru ji and HE adorned her with dastar and her dress then administered amrit to her . This is in Our history written by our people if you are doubting wiki entry fine , but all accounts say that the dastar hukam of Guru ji's was respected by all sikhs not specifying sex .

[Balkaar]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

A) Can anyone here actually post evidence that Guru Sahib stated that women should not have Dastaars? 52 Hukams were not gender specific - one stated Dastaar bina nahi rehna and would apply to all Sikhs.

B) Anyone here care to contend that Sikhs were Amritdhari? Per history, the entire Khalsa Panth was divided into Budha Dal and Tarna Dal for administrative reasons, and then to the Misls. Thus, Amritdhari Sikhs = Nihang. The Nihang Bibian are still dastaardhari, and many contend maintain the original form and discipline of the Khalsa. Their Nitnem Gutka defines that every Gursikh man and woman (Singh and Singhni is the wording used) should have a blue keski in their hair.

C) Taksal Maryada is not gender specific in ordaining a double Dastaar. Sant Attar Singh/Sant Teja Singh were also proponents of Dastaars (Baru Sahib is a living testament to this). Many women in Taksal also tie Dastaars.

A - Actually several of the 52 Hukams are gender specific -

Par istree, ma bhain, dhee bhain, kar jaananee. Par istree da sang nahee karnaa|

Istree da mooh nahee phitkaarnaa|

Singhaa da adhaa naam nahee bulaunaa

Guru Sahib is clearly only addressing Singhs here. It wouldn't be a great intellectual leap therefore to assume that Dastaar binaa nahee rehnaa| may also have been specific to men. It's also very likely that Guru Sahib didn't state that the dastaar is only mandatory for men because this was common knowledge at the time.

B - If you're going to use the Nihangs as the historic benchmark for the Sikh rehat, then you should accept jhatka/mahaprashad and sukha as authentic precepts of the rehat as well. But you won't, will you? You can't use the Nihangs when something about them suits your agenda, and then discard them when it doesn't. You can't pick and choose like that. Their rehat is their own, not that of the entire Sikh world.

C - That's exactly what I'm saying. Some women wear a dastaar, most don't, and good luck to all of them. The Taksaal however has never made it mandatory for the wives of its members (remember that there technically aren't any woman in the Taksaal, it's male-only) to wear a dastaar and that is the distinction. Do I really have to say it again?... I'll try it one last time - The only point I am making is that dastaars were never mandatory for Sikh women. I'm astonished that so few of you seem capable of digesting such a simple idea.

when Mai Bhago was wandering in state of parama hans , laparva of her personal dress/condition, SIkhs told Guru ji and HE adorned her with dastar and her dress then administered amrit to her . This is in Our history written by our people if you are doubting wiki entry fine , but all accounts say that the dastar hukam of Guru ji's was respected by all sikhs not specifying sex .

These same historical accounts are also the ones which specify that Mai Bhago dressed 'like a man'. If wearing a dastaar was to dress like a man, then it very strongly implies that it wasn't seen on women very often.

[JagsawSingh]

The danger here is that people are obviously using their own personal dislikes and likes of particular jathas and groups and using those preferences as a basis from which to either support or rubbish th idea of Sikh women wearing dastars.

As I stated in my last message, I DETEST the Randhir Singh Grewal Jatha (who changed their name to the AKJ in the 1970's because people started to see the jatha as a very weird personality cult)....I DETEST all nihung groups and, as I have made clear here on this forum, I DETEST all parcharaks........And yet my wife wears a dastar. Not a keski...But a full dastar.

So, as you can see, me and my family follow nobody. The Sikhi we practice is one that is free from the sexist mysoginistic realities and influences that prevail in the sub-continent......free from the biased history books of Sikhs, all of whch were written by members of the urban groups that inherently have a certain view about women which even states they should not work outside the home. Once you clear your mind of all these negative influences you are left with nothing but the truth. The day any of you start to preach different rules for women is the day we lose the distinctive and unique sexual equality that exists in Sikhism and become just like the muslims and all the others. To say a Sikh female amritdhari does not have to wear a dastar just because she is a woman is exactly the same as telling a Sikh amritdhari man he doesn't have to wear a dastar. It is pure and utter folly and fakery.

Sikhi says the dastar means something profound. Are females such non-human animals that profound things can't apply to them ?

Sikhi says the bunga, tower, to be erected below the dastar means something profound. Are females such non-human animals that profound things can't apply to them ?

Sikhi says the top-knot at the top of the head has profound spiritual and health benefits ? Are females such non-human animals that the human circulatory and nervous system doesn't apply to them ?

Any Sikh woman that says she is Amritdhari and yet does not wear a dastar is, in my eyes, as shameless and fake as a male that professes to be amritdhari and yet wears a baseball to cover his ponytail. Both are equally ludicrous.