Jump to content

History Of The Khanda Symbol


Balkaar
 Share

Recommended Posts

No I'm not misled. Children or adults that draw their conclusions from 'asking one bloke' are misled. I've spent years researching and absorbing knowledge and its the kind of knowledge that deserves alot more respect than an attempt to be trumped by something one solitary bloke told you.

The Persian word for crocodile is 'temsah'. The word nihung does however still exist today in those persian languages that resisted Islamification / Arabisation of their language, such as Kurdish and Armenian where it means, as I stated before, a mythical sea monster / creature and let us remember how a person that sees a crocodile for the first time would be well within his rights to see it as a 'sea monster'.

However, I think it is entirely plausible for the word 'nihung' to appear in a modern day Persian dictionary, as you state. Plausiblle because of the strange and short-lived shift that occurred in Persian in the decade 1935 to 1945. The Shah of Iran, in 1935, made a public announcement asking scholars and poets to discard modern Persian words rooted in Arabic and revert back to old ancient Persian words. He asked the Iranians to embrace what he called "farsi-e-sareh", or 'pure persian'.Thus a shift started to take place in Persian. Its quite interesting really because we often hear our grandparents say the word 'afsar' when referring to an officer of some description and of course we think it must be a colloqiual Punjabi mispronounciation of the English word 'officer'. However, that is not the case. Given Punjabi's extremely close relationship to Persian, the word actually existed in Punjabi long before any English speaker ever set foot in Punjab. The word 'afsar' comes from the pre-Arabisation Persian word for 'crown', thus afsar signifies a servant of the crown. From Punjabi the word was adopted by the brand new language of Urdu and from Urdu the Shah of Iran, in 1935, re-introduced it into the Persian language by deliberately using it, for the very first time in centuries in Iran, in his passionate speech calling for 'farsi-e-sareh'. And so, in 1935, the Persian word 'afsar' was reintroduced into the Persian language despite the fact that we Punjabis had been using it continously for hundreds of years. By the same token, it is entirely plausible that the word 'nihung' could well have re-entered the Persian language to a small degree in 1935 as part of the persianization process because the current, mass used, farsi word for crocodile is rooted in Arabic : 'tamseh'.

Fool. She brought the dictionary in.

Do you think they printed it to fool Sikh people or something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fool. She brought the dictionary in.

Do you think they printed it to fool Sikh people or something.

:blink2: Your penchant for arguing just to make yourself look less useless than you actually are makes you deaf, dumb and blind Dallysingh101. And there is no bigger fool than a man that deliberately closes his eyes and ears and pretends that he just doesn't hear or see. Lets try a second time hoping that you may finally snap out of that ignorant arrogant shell of yours. Its in English, not Swahili. Try reading it this time:

The Persian word for crocodile is 'temsah'. The word nihung does however still exist today in those persian languages that resisted Islamification / Arabisation of their language, such as Kurdish and Armenian where it means, as I stated before, a mythical sea monster / creature and let us remember how a person that sees a crocodile for the first time would be well within his rights to see it as a 'sea monster'.

However, I think it is entirely plausible for the word 'nihung' to appear in a modern day Persian dictionary, as you state. Plausiblle because of the strange and short-lived shift that occurred in Persian in the decade 1935 to 1945. The Shah of Iran, in 1935, made a public announcement asking scholars and poets to discard modern Persian words rooted in Arabic and revert back to old ancient Persian words. He asked the Iranians to embrace what he called "farsi-e-sareh", or 'pure persian'.Thus a shift started to take place in Persian. Its quite interesting really because we often hear our grandparents say the word 'afsar' when referring to an officer of some description and of course we think it must be a colloqiual Punjabi mispronounciation of the English word 'officer'. However, that is not the case. Given Punjabi's extremely close relationship to Persian, the word actually existed in Punjabi long before any English speaker ever set foot in Punjab. The word 'afsar' comes from the pre-Arabisation Persian word for 'crown', thus afsar signifies a servant of the crown. From Punjabi the word was adopted by the brand new language of Urdu and from Urdu the Shah of Iran, in 1935, re-introduced it into the Persian language by deliberately using it, for the very first time in centuries in Iran, in his passionate speech calling for 'farsi-e-sareh'. And so, in 1935, the Persian word 'afsar' was reintroduced into the Persian language despite the fact that we Punjabis had been using it continously for hundreds of years. By the same token, it is entirely plausible that the word 'nihung' could well have re-entered the Persian language to a small degree in 1935 as part of the persianization process because the current, mass used, farsi word for crocodile is rooted in Arabic : 'tamseh'.

As for the ineptitude you displayed with your meaningless hundreds of photographs about Rattray's Regiment: You do realise that when one says the Rattray Sikh Regiment badge is the "origin' of the Sikh symbol" he is NOT saying the Rattray Regiment symbol is the Sikh symbol....don't you ?? I mean you do realise that when a teacher says man's origins lay in apes he is not calling the man an ape....don't you ? :stupidme:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No I'm not misled. Children or adults that draw their conclusions from 'asking one bloke' are misled. I've spent years researching and absorbing knowledge and its the kind of knowledge that deserves alot more respect than an attempt to be trumped by something one solitary bloke told you.

The Persian word for crocodile is 'temsah'. The word nihung does however still exist today in those persian languages that resisted Islamification / Arabisation of their language, such as Kurdish and Armenian where it means, as I stated before, a mythical sea monster / creature and let us remember how a person that sees a crocodile for the first time would be well within his rights to see it as a 'sea monster'.

However, I think it is entirely plausible for the word 'nihung' to appear in a modern day Persian dictionary, as you state. Plausiblle because of the strange and short-lived shift that occurred in Persian in the decade 1935 to 1945. The Shah of Iran, in 1935, made a public announcement asking scholars and poets to discard modern Persian words rooted in Arabic and revert back to old ancient Persian words. He asked the Iranians to embrace what he called "farsi-e-sareh", or 'pure persian'.Thus a shift started to take place in Persian. Its quite interesting really because we often hear our grandparents say the word 'afsar' when referring to an officer of some description and of course we think it must be a colloqiual Punjabi mispronounciation of the English word 'officer'. However, that is not the case. Given Punjabi's extremely close relationship to Persian, the word actually existed in Punjabi long before any English speaker ever set foot in Punjab. The word 'afsar' comes from the pre-Arabisation Persian word for 'crown', thus afsar signifies a servant of the crown. From Punjabi the word was adopted by the brand new language of Urdu and from Urdu the Shah of Iran, in 1935, re-introduced it into the Persian language by deliberately using it, for the very first time in centuries in Iran, in his passionate speech calling for 'farsi-e-sareh'. And so, in 1935, the Persian word 'afsar' was reintroduced into the Persian language despite the fact that we Punjabis had been using it continously for hundreds of years. By the same token, it is entirely plausible that the word 'nihung' could well have re-entered the Persian language to a small degree in 1935 as part of the persianization process because the current, mass used, farsi word for crocodile is rooted in Arabic : 'tamseh'.

Interesting so you are saying that the Sikhs may have copied or got inspiration for the Khanda from the ancient iranian symbol of the tulip?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does everything about Punjabi have to come from Persian and Arabic. Is our language just a mongrel language?

Has the Punjabi language influenced any other language?

The answer to your first question is the fact that Punjab was always, for thousands of years, an integral province of Persia and entirely seperate from anything we would know today as 'India' Punjab was Persia's easternmost state and its most celebrated and richest.

The answer to your second question is the fact that Punjabi is the big daddy of 'em all. Nearly a thousand years older than Hindi and 2000 years older than Urdu. Being the ancient language that it is, it has influenced every language in northern India and Pakistan. It is the daddy of them all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd say one of the most significant symbolic changes to the Khalsa standard to what came afterwards during colonialism was dropping the shield (representing defense) from the flag, to one which solely contained attacking weapons.

I think that is very significant because the original containing a powerful symbol representing a protective, defensive element keeps that in focus. Instead under the new standard we were used to aggressively attack other far away nations and slipped up on the defense of our homeland itself, with the consequence of having a million odd of our people slaughtered during partition and all the other stuff that effects us to this day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share


  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • yeh it's true, we shouldn't be lazy and need to learn jhatka shikaar. It doesn't help some of grew up in surrounding areas like Slough and Southall where everyone thought it was super bad for amrit dharis to eat meat, and they were following Sant babas and jathas, and instead the Singhs should have been normalising jhatka just like the recent world war soldiers did. We are trying to rectifiy this and khalsa should learn jhatka.  But I am just writing about bhog for those that are still learning rehit. As I explained, there are all these negative influences in the panth that talk against rehit, but this shouldn't deter us from taking khanda pahul, no matter what level of rehit we are!
    • How is it going to help? The link is of a Sikh hunter. Fine, but what good does that do the lazy Sikh who ate khulla maas in a restaurant? By the way, for the OP, yes, it's against rehit to eat khulla maas.
    • Yeah, Sikhs should do bhog of food they eat. But the point of bhog is to only do bhog of food which is fit to be presented to Maharaj. It's not maryada to do bhog of khulla maas and pretend it's OK to eat. It's not. Come on, bro, you should know better than to bring this Sakhi into it. Is this Sikh in the restaurant accompanied by Guru Gobind Singh ji? Is he fighting a dharam yudh? Or is he merely filling his belly with the nearest restaurant?  Please don't make a mockery of our puratan Singhs' sacrifices by comparing them to lazy Sikhs who eat khulla maas.
    • Seriously?? The Dhadi is trying to be cute. For those who didn't get it, he said: "Some say Maharaj killed bakras (goats). Some say he cut the heads of the Panj Piyaras. The truth is that they weren't goats. It was she-goats (ਬਕਰੀਆਂ). He jhatka'd she-goats. Not he-goats." Wow. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard in relation to Sikhi.
    • Instead of a 9 inch or larger kirpan, take a smaller kirpan and put it (without gatra) inside your smaller turban and tie the turban tightly. This keeps a kirpan on your person without interfering with the massage or alarming the masseuse. I'm not talking about a trinket but rather an actual small kirpan that fits in a sheath (you'll have to search to find one). As for ahem, "problems", you could get a male masseuse. I don't know where you are, but in most places there are professional masseuses who actually know what they are doing and can really relieve your muscle pains.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use