In The Uk

[jkvlondon]

Sikhs have been living in the UK in large numbers for over half a century with fourth generation Sikhs at school age.

If after all this time, you haven't figured whether the UK is a racist country or not, then I wonder what your alternatives are.

over over one hundred years ...

[Ranjeet01]

over over one hundred years ...

Talking in terms of large numbers

[jkvlondon]

Talking in terms of large numbers

it won't matter even if we were here a thousand years ...they would never call us English or British willingly. Don't matter though we are universal citizens

[dallysingh101]

it won't matter even if we were here a thousand years ...they would never call us English or British willingly. Don't matter though we are universal citizens

They would if we lost all consciousness of our original heritage and acted like whitewashed coconuts.

What person with any integrity would do that?

[Ranjeet01]

it won't matter even if we were here a thousand years ...they would never call us English or British willingly. Don't matter though we are universal citizens

So what do you propose? Are you going to emigrate or are you going to stay?

[simran345]

So what do you propose? Are you going to emigrate or are you going to stay?

I have to stay, God knows where I would emigrate to, got nowhere to go, just one passport I'm afraid. ?

[jkvlondon]

So what do you propose? Are you going to emigrate or are you going to stay?

Jitte Guru ji sanu rakheiya ussi revangey , so far I've been here if I end up in Brasil I will try to be a good sikh and encourage sikhi parchaar through action there . Thing is we are smudges of dirt on spinning mud ball in a vast cosmos- what is a country in that scheme of things ? I am happy whereever my Guru ji takes me and stays with me .

[JagsawSingh]

There was always racism and possibly will be all over the world. Talking about Kenya which was a British colony, the black people there discriminate against the Asian community. However there are some who dont share that attitude and look at people based on their merits and demerits.

You're obviously from that part of the world because I doubt you will ever find anyone else, ever, share those sentiments of yours. The rest of us see things with different eyes. We look at how 'Indians' came to Kenya and treated the native blacks like dirt. The rest of us fully understand why they would not like you and wanted you out.

Anyway, back to the UK. Things started off bad, then they got better, and now - because society's taken its eyes of the ball over the last decade - we've gone full circle and things are bad again. Talk to our grandparents about what things were like when they came in the 1940's and 1950's and they tell you how the Conservatives were OK with us but Labour and particularly the Trade Unions absolutely hated us and wanted us out. It took fighting in the streets by our parents generation (1979 Southall - 1981 Southall, Brixton, Toxteth, Bristol etc) to change things. Nothing ever, in the history of Britain, has changed for the good without 'trouble makers making trouble'. If it wasn't for trouble makers (the suffragettes) even women still wouldn't have the vote today. Thats what we're missing today; trouble makers, and you can blame successive governments for that because they've introduced so much excessive public order legislation its virtually impossible for a traditional trouble maker to exist unless he's willing to lose his job and livelihood, not to mention liberty.

So, is the UK racist ? Well, let me give you 2 examples :

1. Ujjal Singh Dosanjh worked in a factory in Coventry. He studied in the evening while working and got good qualifications. Tried to get a better job with his qualifications but was constantly told he wasn't good enough. Could't even get promotion to supervisor level at the factory he worked in. Ujjal Singh Dosanjh said enough is enough, packed his bags and left the UK in order to go to Canada. In Canada he showed employers his UK qualifications, they valued it and they gave him his articles (training contract). A few years later Ujjal Singh Dosanjh got elected as an MP. A few years later Ujjal Singh Dosanjh is given Ministerial responsibility as Canada's Minister of Health. A few years later ujjal Singh Dosanjh gets elected as Governer General of British Columbia, gets re-elected twice and was widely tipped as Canada's next Prime Minister. Had he stayed in England however, it is debatable whether he would ever have reached the dizzy heights of becomng a supervisor in that factory in Coventry.
2. A couple of years ago I made an official request under the Freedom of Information Act regarding recruitment practices at Tfl (Transport for London) and their Management graduate schemes. Bearing in mind the population of London is roughly a 50/50 split between whites and non-whites I asked what percentage of applications came from whites / non-whites and what percentage of the people who were shortlisted to the second stage were white. Their answer was both astonishing and frightening. They say of the applications they received 42% were from 'whites', 46% from 'non-whites' and 12% 'refused to answer' (it is always only white people who 'refuse to answer' because they think they're making a stand against positive discrimination / political correctness etc. They said of the people who passed that first stage and went on to the second stage, 77% were white, 13% were non-white and 10% 'refused to answer' !!!!! Now think about that for one moment. White people, from the very first moment, were 3 times more likely to be shortlisted than the non-white applicant.

Everything you ever wanted to know about the UK is right there in the two points above.

[Ranjeet01]

You're obviously from that part of the world because I doubt you will ever find anyone else, ever, share those sentiments of yours. The rest of us see things with different eyes. We look at how 'Indians' came to Kenya and treated the native blacks like dirt. The rest of us fully understand why they would not like you and wanted you out.

Anyway, back to the UK. Things started off bad, then they got better, and now - because society's taken its eyes of the ball over the last decade - we've gone full circle and things are bad again. Talk to our grandparents about what things were like when they came in the 1940's and 1950's and they tell you how the Conservatives were OK with us but Labour and particularly the Trade Unions absolutely hated us and wanted us out. It took fighting in the streets by our parents generation (1979 Southall - 1981 Southall, Brixton, Toxteth, Bristol etc) to change things. Nothing ever, in the history of Britain, has changed for the good without 'trouble makers making trouble'. If it wasn't for trouble makers (the suffragettes) even women still wouldn't have the vote today. Thats what we're missing today; trouble makers, and you can blame successive governments for that because they've introduced so much excessive public order legislation its virtually impossible for a traditional trouble maker to exist unless he's willing to lose his job and livelihood, not to mention liberty.

So, is the UK racist ? Well, let me give you 2 examples :

• Ujjal Singh Dosanjh worked in a factory in Coventry. He studied in the evening while working and got good qualifications. Tried to get a better job with his qualifications but was constantly told he wasn't good enough. Could't even get promotion to supervisor level at the factory he worked in. Ujjal Singh Dosanjh said enough is enough, packed his bags and left the UK in order to go to Canada. In Canada he showed employers his UK qualifications, they valued it and they gave him his articles (training contract). A few years later Ujjal Singh Dosanjh got elected as an MP. A few years later Ujjal Singh Dosanjh is given Ministerial responsibility as Canada's Minister of Health. A few years later ujjal Singh Dosanjh gets elected as Governer General of British Columbia, gets re-elected twice and was widely tipped as Canada's next Prime Minister. Had he stayed in England however, it is debatable whether he would ever have reached the dizzy heights of becomng a supervisor in that factory in Coventry.
• A couple of years ago I made an official request under the Freedom of Information Act regarding recruitment practices at Tfl (Transport for London) and their Management graduate schemes. Bearing in mind the population of London is roughly a 50/50 split between whites and non-whites I asked what percentage of applications came from whites / non-whites and what percentage of the people who were shortlisted to the second stage were white. Their answer was both astonishing and frightening. They say of the applications they received 42% were from 'whites', 46% from 'non-whites' and 12% 'refused to answer' (it is always only white people who 'refuse to answer' because they think they're making a stand against positive discrimination / political correctness etc. They said of the people who passed that first stage and went on to the second stage, 77% were white, 13% were non-white and 10% 'refused to answer' !!!!! Now think about that for one moment. White people, from the very first moment, were 3 times more likely to be shortlisted than the non-white applicant.

Everything you ever wanted to know about the UK is right there in the two points above.

Jagsaw

Please correct me if I'm wrong and I hope I am not being too personal here:

Since you have lived in Canada, why did you decide to leave Canada to come back to live in the UK.

You gave the example of Ujjal Dosanjh having better opportunities in Canada than the UK. The question is whether Ujjal Dosanjh is a one-off or whether this a more common feature for people who move to Canada from the UK?

[JagsawSingh]

Jagsaw

Please correct me if I'm wrong and I hope I am not being too personal here:

Since you have lived in Canada, why did you decide to leave Canada to come back to live in the UK.

You gave the example of Ujjal Dosanjh having better opportunities in Canada than the UK. The question is whether Ujjal Dosanjh is a one-off or whether this a more common feature for people who move to Canada from the UK?

Because moving to Canada from London is like moving from Jalandhar City to a small town in Bihar. You'll get a much bigger house for the price but its only something you should do once you're retired and want to live out the rest of your life in quiet. Its a backward step. And you shouldn't for one moment think I'm saying things are better there overall (as I was just talking about the employment situation) because if you ever visit downtown Vancouver and you see more hopeless homeless destitute junkies than you've ever seen in your life this side of Bombay you quickly begin to see the realities of life in a provincial town cut off from the large cities of the world. So, as you can see, my point was purely about employment and that is something we here in the UK can rectify too if we regain that trouble making fighting spirit and force change. Most people however, can't even be arsed to do a freedom of information request themselves let alone act upon the findings of someone else's request and answers,

The point is that we the people in the UK need to