Jump to content

Guru Gobind Singh And Rai Singh (from Chaupa Singh Rehatnama)


Recommended Posts

I've been looking at this recently. It's a very interesting extract from the Chaupa Singh Singh rehatnama as translated and published by Hew McLeod.

If it is an accurate account, it suggests that Guru ji didn't expect all Sikhs to fight in war, deeming some unsuitable. I've not compared the translation to the original Panjabi text as given in McLeod's book yet. I'm posting both for people's inspection.

I love reading, but unfortunately I just can't do it for prolonged periods in electronic form (ebooks, kindle, ipads etc.), and can't afford to print out the whole ebook at the moment hence I haven't read the book fully yet.

Translation:

Once in S. 1759 (1702 A.C) [there occured the following incident]. The annual gathering to celebrate Baisakhi had been held and the naqib had been instructed to announce that everyone should go home. The naqib announced in a loud voice that the Supreme Master had instructed all to return to their homes. Hearing the announcement all who were assembled there duly dispersed. All departed except for a Khatri called Rai Singh. The naqib reported [to Guru Gobind Singh] that the gathering had dispersed but that one participant, Rai Singh, still remained.

"If you want to be a faithful Sikh [obey my command and] go to your home,' [the Guru] said to him.

"My Lord," he answered, "I have remained here because I have abandoned my home. How can I be a faithful Sikh in my home when I have no home?"

"Only at home can you be a faithful Sikh, not here," said [the Guru. "This is no place for you at present.] You are a literate person, one who knows Persian, whereas here our business has to be war. Because of the designs of [evil] people I must bring about a time of tumult (raula), for only thus can our ends be attained. [in such circumstances you will be a hindrance.] When you witness the turmoil you will think up all sorts of suggestions concerning the way this should be done and that should not be done. You will say, "The Master has made a mistake."

"[instead of flinging yourself in combat] you will sit and listen to what others say. You will think, you will observe and you will make calculations. But we shall be in the midst of tumult and when the panth is plunged into tumult it has to fight! If all is calm [my] Sikhs will stay at home and there fall prey to excessive affection for family and possessions. But now, in the coming tumult, there will be no such distractions." And so [the Guru] sent [Rai Singh] home.

Page 191 - internal book numbering

post-46121-0-47915400-1458322411_thumb.j

Full book available here: https://www.scribd.com/doc/251660050/The-Chaupa-Singh-Rahit-Nama-Translation-by-Hew-McLeod

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Jacfsing2

Not really true, if you ask me. When one takes Amrit they become a form of the Khalsa I.e. Guru's form. Also if you look very carefully at those who believe in Chaupa Singh's Rehatnama they use it as a support system for women to be given Kirpan-Di-Amrit. Also didn't Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji leave Chamkaur when the Punj Pyare told him. (If you want a legit Rehatnama read Bhai Daya Singh's Rehatnama, he was a Punj Pyare).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not really true, if you ask me. When one takes Amrit they become a form of the Khalsa I.e. Guru's form. Also if you look very carefully at those who believe in Chaupa Singh's Rehatnama they use it as a support system for women to be given Kirpan-Di-Amrit. Also didn't Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji leave Chamkaur when the Punj Pyare told him. (If you want a legit Rehatnama read Bhai Daya Singh's Rehatnama, he was a Punj Pyare).

Would Guru Ji have expected the poets and the writers in his darbar (creative types who - shall we say - had delicate sensibilities not conducive to the temperament required of a warrior) to fight in the battles being waged at the time? Would they've forced a kirpan or a spear into the hand of a fey, flowery type who preferred wielding a pen than a sword?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Jacfsing2

Would Guru Ji have expected the poets and the writers in his darbar (creative types who - shall we say - had delicate sensibilities not conducive to the temperament required of a warrior) to fight in the battles being waged at the time? Would they've forced a kirpan or a spear into the hand of a fey, flowery type who preferred wielding a pen than a sword?

One of the kakkars is Kirpan, I don't think Guru Sahib would recommend kesh-cutting on the battlefield either, even though you can just grab someone's dhari to stop them from fighting, some disgusting haumai-filled monas use this tactic when fighting against Singhs from political Gurdwara control: you can literally see those folk in videos also grabbing the Pags of Singhs and Kaurs who wear them.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the kakkars is Kirpan, I don't think Guru Sahib would recommend kesh-cutting on the battlefield either, even though you can just grab someone's dhari to stop them from fighting, some disgusting haumai-filled monas use this tactic when fighting against Singhs from political Gurdwara control: you can literally see those folk in videos also grabbing the Pags of Singhs and Kaurs who wear them.

What has that got to do with anything being discussed?

We're talking about pushing non-fighters into a fighting unit of Singhs whose sole aim was defeat the enemy and win battles. If some limp-wristed kavi (no offence to him) lined up alongside me in a battle situation, and it was presumed he had my back in a situation where I required support in a fight, I'd be pretty annoyed at the fact that I was guaranteed to die if my survival depended on the shivering wreck next to me. Dying the glorious death of a martyr is all well and good, but if the aim of war is to win battles and inflict damage on the enemy, then you have to be alive to push the enemy towards defeat. If everyone is getting martyred left, right, and centre, then that's great for their souls, but not so great for the act of winning a war.

And before anyone posts the "Chiriyaa toh Baaj" bachan, which I believe in wholeheartedly, there's also the practical requirement of winning battles and defeating the enemy, which is a feat made possible only through the efforts of battle-hardened fighters and expert strategic planning; that's something we forget when we get all philosophical and metaphysical about the history of our Guru Sahibs. Without preparation, training, education, and skill, you CANNOT win a physical encounter. With the hand of God over your head, impossible feats are absolutely possible, but if that were the only requirement to excel in a particular field (in this case, war) there would've been no need to mold Sikhs into a martial race. A succession of sehaj paaths for a few hundred years would've done the job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've heard that someone else was prevented from arming themselves and fighting by Guru ji too, I think it might have been Bhai Nand Lal Goya?

If this episode is true, then I don't think it is suggesting that all educated writing types were prevented from fighting. Dasmesh pita ji is no clown, if someone was not suitable for that type of rough stuff then I would imagine he would tactfully and firmly dissuade them from it. Like here.

Maybe this particular guy was so plainly psychologically and/or physically unsuitable for the coming raula that Guru ji did the obviously right thing?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've heard that someone else was prevented from arming themselves and fighting by Guru ji too, I think it might have been Bhai Nand Lal Goya?

If this episode is true, then I don't think it is suggesting that all educated writing types were prevented from fighting. Dasmesh pita ji is no clown, if someone was not suitable for that type of rough stuff then I would imagine he would tactfully and firmly dissuade them from it. Like here.

Maybe this particular guy was so plainly psychologically and/or physically unsuitable for the coming raula that Guru ji did the obviously right thing?

I think Guru Ji would've judged the situation on a case-by-case basis. Some individuals have hidden depths that need to be uncovered by someone who can recognise those latent abilities in an individual. There well might've been a few of the non-warriors who had fighting spirit, but the assumption that all of them were given a weapon and told to go fight cannot be accurate.

Guru Ji was a lot more pragmatic, far-sighted, and shrewd than his modern day followers give him credit for. These lot won't be at peace until they've completed pendu-fied our Guru Sahibs into crude "chakdo Singho" caricatures. Drives me up the wall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe this particular guy was so plainly psychologically and/or physically unsuitable for the coming raula that Guru ji did the obviously right thing?

You know this, but as a commander of men, i.e. soldiers, any individual responsible for a fighting unit MUST not have any liabilities amongst his men that would hamper any desire of inflicting defeat on the opposition. Why would Guru Ji willingly induct men into his army who were clearly unsuitable for the act of fighting? They weren't running a charity or a social club to make Sikhs feel good about themselves, lol. Their primary aim was to inflict damage on the enemy and win battles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know this, but as a commander of men, i.e. soldiers, any individual responsible for a fighting unit MUST not have any liabilities amongst his men that would hamper any desire of inflicting defeat on the opposition. Why would Guru Ji willingly induct men into his army who were clearly unsuitable for the act of fighting? They weren't running a charity or a social club to make Sikhs feel good about themselves, lol. Their primary aim was to inflict damage on the enemy and win battles.

Remember in Bachitar Natak Guru ji himself says he barred people who didn't fight in some of the earlier battles from residing in Anandpur afterwards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • yeh it's true, we shouldn't be lazy and need to learn jhatka shikaar. It doesn't help some of grew up in surrounding areas like Slough and Southall where everyone thought it was super bad for amrit dharis to eat meat, and they were following Sant babas and jathas, and instead the Singhs should have been normalising jhatka just like the recent world war soldiers did. We are trying to rectifiy this and khalsa should learn jhatka.  But I am just writing about bhog for those that are still learning rehit. As I explained, there are all these negative influences in the panth that talk against rehit, but this shouldn't deter us from taking khanda pahul, no matter what level of rehit we are!
    • How is it going to help? The link is of a Sikh hunter. Fine, but what good does that do the lazy Sikh who ate khulla maas in a restaurant? By the way, for the OP, yes, it's against rehit to eat khulla maas.
    • Yeah, Sikhs should do bhog of food they eat. But the point of bhog is to only do bhog of food which is fit to be presented to Maharaj. It's not maryada to do bhog of khulla maas and pretend it's OK to eat. It's not. Come on, bro, you should know better than to bring this Sakhi into it. Is this Sikh in the restaurant accompanied by Guru Gobind Singh ji? Is he fighting a dharam yudh? Or is he merely filling his belly with the nearest restaurant?  Please don't make a mockery of our puratan Singhs' sacrifices by comparing them to lazy Sikhs who eat khulla maas.
    • Seriously?? The Dhadi is trying to be cute. For those who didn't get it, he said: "Some say Maharaj killed bakras (goats). Some say he cut the heads of the Panj Piyaras. The truth is that they weren't goats. It was she-goats (ਬਕਰੀਆਂ). He jhatka'd she-goats. Not he-goats." Wow. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard in relation to Sikhi.
    • Instead of a 9 inch or larger kirpan, take a smaller kirpan and put it (without gatra) inside your smaller turban and tie the turban tightly. This keeps a kirpan on your person without interfering with the massage or alarming the masseuse. I'm not talking about a trinket but rather an actual small kirpan that fits in a sheath (you'll have to search to find one). As for ahem, "problems", you could get a male masseuse. I don't know where you are, but in most places there are professional masseuses who actually know what they are doing and can really relieve your muscle pains.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use