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bdemon

Veganism

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You keep repeating the same ideas without being logical about it, even if we lived in your world, most people would still be starving, probably even more.

Lol why would people still be starving if there was a lot more food to go around?

I'm also assuming you don't have much agricultural experience either, this will only make farmers have to speed up food production by a lot since now everyone is vegan

That makes no sense, the vegan food is already being produced but its being sent to the animals and not the humans, also due to the capitalist system, food is having to be thrown out so pricrs can stay up, their paying farmers not to grow food!

it will also decrease the organic quality because of the need to use GMO's, (Genetically Modified Foods).

why will it descrease the organic quality? we could use premeculture methods, your arguement is just making jump after jump with no explination.

Just be honest and admit that you don't have the answers to this situation, unless you work in a farm and have actually grown food which other people eat

I may not have the solution as i am not edicated enough in that specific field but i know people who are and i know it makes more sense to feed plants to humans then over feed it to cows so we can kill them, I do not understand your arguement, i think your saying whatever you can to try and prove me wrong

you won't understand the basics of this idea.

i dont think you understand what your saying lol, the only thing that was right in what you have just said was that a gmo means Genetically Modified Food

although I personally dont have the answers for specifics im atleast learning farming about how to feed people, i worked at a farm in belgium and plan to work at other farms to learn premeculture methods and how to grow organic foods.

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Guest Jacfsing2

That is WRONG. Those Chinese/Bangladeshi people have a choice to work in those places.. These animals did not have a choice at all. How can you compare a rapist/slaughter house to a factory where humans willingly go?? It is common sense, when something is wrong we do not associate with it, as we do not want to show that we support it.

What if they were blackmailed?

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That is WRONG. Those Chinese/Bangladeshi people have a choice to work in those places.. These animals did not have a choice at all. How can you compare a rapist/slaughter house to a factory where humans willingly go?? It is common sense, when something is wrong we do not associate with it, as we do not want to show that we support it.

I think they probably don't have a choice, as look around the whole world, how easy is it to get a job?

Bangladesh/China is probably worse to find a job, so they probably go for whatever work they can get.

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Guest Jacfsing2

They also get paid. If theyget blackmailed then it is on their luck since the majority are not.. People can get blackmailed anywhere.

So if I exploit humans it's all right, but animals not at all. (That sounds like PETA if you ask me).

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Yeah, but they get paid as well. It is sad for them too, but it cannot be compared to a slaughter factory where those beings wait in line to be killed so rakshas people can eat them! There is a major difference.

Singh ji that is wrong for anyone to think that way. I support peace and shanti for all. I am saying all this to show how wrong it is to not be vegan while calling oneself an Akal Purakh ji worshiper through Sikhi, since how can someone worship Paramatma ji yet openly accept the fact that this happens to Paramatma ji's prakirti. It is wrong and needs to be stopped.. Do not associate yourself with people who leave their backs to Hari. Sikhs protect satya (innocent), they do not take part in destroying satya(aka taking part in the dairy industry in the west and many others).

Would you work for free? Obviously they get paid, they wouldn't be doing it for free would they, regardless of we or anybody thinks.

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Yes I would, and it is called seva.

I will never understand how someone can compare atmas that are waiting in line against their wills to get killed and exploited, to atmas who willingly go to work for money. Those are 2 totally different situations. How can someone say it is a similar thing..?

I'm not talking about seva. What they are doing is wrong, but they are hardly doing seva are they? They are working for a living, trying to feed their families and themselves. Whereas seva is voluntary selfless service. You are saying they are comparing the two, the work they do and seva and linking them together, when they have no connection at all. Since when are they doing seva, for you to mention seva? Seva has nothing to do with their work.

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Guest Jacfsing2

Yes I would, and it is called seva.

I will never understand how someone can compare atmas that are waiting in line against their wills to get killed and exploited, to atmas who willingly go to work for money. Those are 2 totally different situations. How can someone say it is a similar thing..?

Did you really compare getting workers to work for a tiny bit of cash to serving the message of Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji? I honestly don't believe this is Kirat Karni, rather slave labor. (It's a good thing that I've never had to experience such a scenario in this life because of Vaheguru's Grace; however, I do ultimately feel bad that they are taken advantage of for being poor).

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You asked who would do work for free, and I said Seva is work for free aka no material gain. Seva can be called to anything regardless being dharmic, or adharmic. For example, when I went to India I had fallen a bit sick, and these women came and did mine and other's SEVA for free.

I am misunderstood once again. It is kirat, kirat karni is not limited to any set pay.. Look at Sri Ravidas ji, he did not earn as much materialistic items through his profession, but that is still kirat karni. He was offered many expensive things in his life, but denied most of them such as the parasmani etc. So, that shows that there is no set pay to kirat.

No you are confused, seva is in its own category and work is in its own. Your personal example above is about seva, not work( paying somebody to work.) it's not rocket science to distinguish between the two.

People working for a living for salary/wages, and doing seva for free have no connection. Stop confusing the whole scenario.

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That is WRONG. Those Chinese/Bangladeshi people have a choice to work in those places.. These animals did not have a choice at all. How can you compare a rapist/slaughter house to a factory where humans willingly go?? It is common sense, when something is wrong we do not associate with it, as we do not want to show that we support it.

So are you saying they don't suffer? Can you apply the same 'choice' to the other forms of suffering listed in that post?

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Agreed that is why I'm not vegan and just vegetarian. Veganism is great so long as there isn't a holier than thou attitude with one who follows it. Respect to people who can but like I said in my first page that it's wrong to become complacent.

Well that's the sticking point. It's slowly becoming a trend amongst amritdhari's which will lead to a 'holier than thou' attitude. You can see it starting off with the 'guilt trip' posts on social media and websites nowadays.

Hats off to anyone who only consumes raw milk or is vegan, but don't use it as a platform to criticise those who choose not to.

Edited by singh_comradz
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Well that's the sticking point. It's slowly becoming a trend amongst amritdhari's which will lead to a 'holier than thou' attitude. You can see it starting off with the 'guilt trip' posts on social media and websites nowadays.

Hats off to anyone who only consumes raw milk or is vegan, but don't use it as a platform to criticise those who choose not to.

Exactly brother. Agreed completely

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Respected Singh ji, those people do suffer, but it is out of their choice, and our money that we spend on the items they manufacture are paid to them, so technically we are paying them for a product and they use that money on anything they want, and those people have rights in life. Me, and many other Sikhs who realize what a crime it is to support slaughter houses/rape houses for sheer selfishness will not stoop up to manmatt like many others have. It is hukam to not support crimes against pranees for pleasure! If someone calls themselves a worshiper of Paramatma ji and then gives agony to Paramatma ji's prakirti then that person is a nastik, since they do not see Hari in those animals. I'm focusing on animals in this thread because this thread is about DIET, so feel free to private message me if you want to go offtopic.

WJKK WJKG

I kinda find your post patronising at the least. I obviously do not know your personal living standard or where you live. But you have such a black and white/wrong or right view. You do not know peoples personal situations who HAVE to work in places like China, India or Nangladesh for basically peanuts to keep families ticking by.

Due to my grandparents decisions, I am lucky to be born in the UK and have prosperity, health, wealth and eduction with progression for alll my family- that's not the case for many, many of these people who you so easily categorise.

You judge people so easily and use the word "nasthik" so easily! Again, who are you to judge who is and isn't nasthik. When someone steals bread or eats the offal of an animal which has been discarded and then thanks parmatma for that that food, are they "nasthik"

What hunger have you felt in your stomach? What have you suffered in this world? Do you work 14 hours for 100 rupees to put food on the table (whatever's the cheapest, so maybe not vegan from the vegan deli)?

Your hippyish black and white view on the world is alil misguided.

In your view the ideal gursikh is celebate and vegan. In my world a gursikh can be defined under many a definition.

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VJKK VJKF

There is only one definition of a Gursikh, and that is a Bibekh Gurmukh. They are all vegetarian, and whatever dairy they do get, they make sure it is from an animal who is not under any threat.

Meat is so expensive anyways in India, so I doubt someone could buy it for 100 rupees. There are so many alternatives rather than turning to flesh. Go ahead and buy from rapists/murderers who sell dairy/meat if you are from the west, but don't call yourself an astik while doing so :)

WJKK WJKF

I'm not actually talking about meat or food, it's a reply to your post which I quoted in regards to people who are exploited for poor pay under poor conditions and your opinion on them and their reasons why.

You are very high and mighty about your veganism. You have no idea what the term food means to people in different situations and circumstances. You judge when your in no position to. Tell the homeless person on the street about your veganism and rape/slaughter of innocent animals and then go home to your warm home and vegan meal. While the homeless person will eat whatever they can.

I didn't say meat costs 100 rupees. It was an estimate of poor exploitive pay and yes meat is maybe expensive for people in India, hence why they will buy the OFFAL as no one will eat it and it's cheaper than vegan, vegetarian and meat foods!

Edited by sikhiseeker

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VJKK VJKF

My ahankar has nothing to do with this debate, it is truly surprising how someone can sense ahankar just by reading something. I'm not judging anyone singularly, I am just telling what the views are based on Gurmat. If someone mistakes that for ahankar, then hopefully they realize that it is not ahankar. If someone told me to eat meat or die, I'd rather die than to eat meat. What can a meat eating human understand when their minds are infused with tamas guni thoughts (since that is the reward of eating tamas guni foods). It does not matter if you have stated that meat costs 100 rupees, I was saying that for general knowledge, so it makes no sense for someone to say a bikhari would eat meat because it is cheap. Clearly anyone who thinks living while turning their backs on Hari is a nastik. I would rather die today if I was told that I am not allowed to be dharmic, rather than lead an Adharmic life. Har har har har har har har har ੴ.

WJKK WJKF

Carry on living in a dream lol. We were all born sinners, you act and talk like you have attained mukhti already because your vegan lol. Crack on

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