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Baba Ram Rai


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The incident that Jagraj Singh keeps referring to when masands were given capital punishment  by having boiling oil poured on them By Guru Gobind Singh ji   ;it wasn't for just stealing exactly it was for burning Baba Ram Rai's body whilst he was astral travelling during deep meditation to gain access to his wealth and at the protest of Baba ji's wife . 

The interesting thing I found out was Guru Harkrishan ji actually gave him a shrapp that he should be burnt alive ... this is all in suraj prakash as below:

Final Days of Ram Rai

Shunned by all Sikhs he went to Srinagar Garwaal and became a great friend of Raja Fateh Chand. It is thought that he influenced Raja Fateh Chand to annex some territory of Raja Medani Prakash. He had many followers known as Masands. As Baba had no children to inherit his property his Masands were trying their best to occupy the Dera. Baba Ram Rai shifted to Dehradoon.

Ram Rai although having been criticised previously for altering Gurbani, he was still considered a Mahapurush by many and did numerous good deeds. In his final days at Dehradoon, Ram Rai strictly instructed his wife Mata Punjab Kaur to not allow anybody access to his enclosure. He said to her that he was going into deep meditation and it was very important she obeyed his order. He then entered the room and meditated for numerous days. It was believed Ram Rai could leave his body and entered the spiritual plane. Ram Rai may have done this in order to help his devotees a long distance away. His Masands quickly realised his miss-presence and debated on where he was. After some time they asked Panjab Kaur who told them the situation. The corrupt Masands didn’t listen to her and suggested he would have perished in the room. They hacked a plan to open the door to the room and look inside. Panjab Kaur hesitantly forced them not to do this. However not obeying her order the Masands reluctantly opened the door and saw Ram Rai lying on the floor. They then debated on what to do next and suggested they should cremate the body. The saddened Panjab Kaur on seeing what they had done lamented in shock. She meditated to Ram Rai and did ardas for his return.

The followers of Ram Rai or Masands had become greedy on seeing his wealth and property. They therefore did what they could in their power to gain hold of it. Sri Guru Harkrishan Ji gave Ram Rai a sraaf (curse) before they left for their heavenly abode as Ram Rai had tried to insult the Guru. Guru ji said you will also be burned alive. As Ram heard the call of Panjab Kaur for his return the guilty Masands were already preparing the funeral rites of his body. They cleaned his body according to the traditional customs. Ram Rai in his spiritual form returned to be shocked at what his followers had done. From above he lamented and saw his own body. He became very infuriated at them as they could hear him from below Ram Rai cursed them for their folly. He also remembered his older brother Guru Harkrishans saying. Having been saddened Ram Rai didn’t re-enter his body but left for his heavenly abode. The Masands saw this and still continued the funeral rites of setting light to the body.

After his cremation, Panjab Kaur asked Guru Gobind Singh for assistance. Guru ji was very displeased at the news as Ram Rai was his cousin brother (Grandson of Baba Gurditta) by relation (see Guru family tree). Guru ji travelled to Dehradoon to punish the guilty Masands. Guru ji knew Ram Rai was a Maha purakh and what the Masands had done was very shameful. He tricked the Masands into believing they were accepting a saropa (token of achievement) whilst they were punished severely one by one. They were numerous Masands that were punished in the order of hundreds. Each one was tied and punished by pouring hot oil over their foreheads. The main leader Masands were also severly punished in the same way and killed. Justice had been done and Panjab Kaur thanked Guru Gobind Singh for his support and Ram Rai’s Aatma would now be at rest.

Extract from Bhai Santokh Singh - Suraj Parkash

 

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Baba Ram Rai Ji resides in SatchKhand. They were son of Guru Ji and they played their part as they were instructed by AkaalPurkh.

When Yudhisthira finally went to satchkand who would he meet sitting infornt of him but Dharyodhan. He was puzzled how can he be here when he was such an egotistical trouble maker on earth. It was explained to him that they are all such elevated spiritual souls and they are allsent to maat-lokh to play their part as instructed by AkaalPurkh.

In the same way Baba Ram Rai Ji played his part, it is all part of our ithaas. We may not have anything to do with the Ram-Rai's but have total respect for Baba Ji.

 

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16 minutes ago, Bundha said:

Baba Ram Rai Ji resides in SatchKhand. They were son of Guru Ji and they played their part as they were instructed by AkaalPurkh.

When Yudhisthira finally went to satchkand who would he meet sitting infornt of him but Dharyodhan. He was puzzled how can he be here when he was such an egotistical trouble maker on earth. It was explained to him that they are all such elevated spiritual souls and they are allsent to maat-lokh to play their part as instructed by AkaalPurkh.

In the same way Baba Ram Rai Ji played his part, it is all part of our ithaas. We may not have anything to do with the Ram-Rai's but have total respect for Baba Ji.

 

i revised my words accordingly ...

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2 hours ago, Bundha said:

Baba Ram Rai Ji resides in SatchKhand. They were son of Guru Ji and they played their part as they were instructed by AkaalPurkh.

When Yudhisthira finally went to satchkand who would he meet sitting infornt of him but Dharyodhan. He was puzzled how can he be here when he was such an egotistical trouble maker on earth. It was explained to him that they are all such elevated spiritual souls and they are allsent to maat-lokh to play their part as instructed by AkaalPurkh.

In the same way Baba Ram Rai Ji played his part, it is all part of our ithaas. We may not have anything to do with the Ram-Rai's but have total respect for Baba Ji.

 

Bro Swarg isn't the same as SachKhand, that saga depicts the ascension to Heaven and not SachKhand.  Respect for Baba Ram Rai Ji is important however being a member of Guru Sahib's family is a blessing for past good karma, Even Guru Nanak Dev Ji's own sons were described to have turned their back on their father and carry sins on their backs for it.

ਸਚੁ ਜਿ ਗੁਰਿ ਫੁਰਮਾਇਆ ਕਿਉ ਏਦੂ ਬੋਲਹੁ ਹਟੀਐ ॥ सचु जि गुरि फुरमाइआ किउ एदू बोलहु हटीऐ ॥ Sacẖ jė gur furmā▫i▫ā ki▫o eḏū bolhu hatī▫ai. The Guru gave the True Command; why should we hesitate to proclaim this?


ਪੁਤ੍ਰੀ ਕਉਲੁ ਨ ਪਾਲਿਓ ਕਰਿ ਪੀਰਹੁ ਕੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਮੁਰਟੀਐ ॥ पुत्री कउलु न पालिओ करि पीरहु कंन्ह मुरटीऐ ॥ Puṯrī ka▫ul na pāli▫o kar pīrahu kanĥ murtī▫ai. His sons did not obey His Word; they turned their backs on Him as Guru.
ਦਿਲਿ ਖੋਟੈ ਆਕੀ ਫਿਰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਬੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਭਾਰੁ ਉਚਾਇਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਛਟੀਐ ॥ दिलि खोटै आकी फिरन्हि बंन्हि भारु उचाइन्हि छटीऐ ॥ Ḏil kẖotai ākī firniĥ banėh bẖār ucẖā▫iniĥ cẖẖatī▫ai. These evil-hearted ones became rebellious; they carry loads of sin on their backs.
ਜਿਨਿ ਆਖੀ ਸੋਈ ਕਰੇ ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਤੀ ਤਿਨੈ ਥਟੀਐ ॥ जिनि आखी सोई करे जिनि कीती तिनै थटीऐ ॥ Jin ākẖī so▫ī kare jin kīṯī ṯinai thatī▫ai. Whatever the Guru said, Lehna did, and so he was installed on the throne.
ਕਉਣੁ ਹਾਰੇ ਕਿਨਿ ਉਵਟੀਐ ॥੨॥ कउणु हारे किनि उवटीऐ ॥२॥ Ka▫uṇ hāre kin uvtī▫ai. ||2|| Who has lost, and who has won? ||2|

Neither of us are at the level of Brahmgyan where we know where these beings are now, it's best not to state anyone is at SachKhand except those Guru Sahib has specifically ordained. 

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20 hours ago, pavitarsk said:

.

The father of Ram Rai the SATGURU said not to associate with him and his followers, and here you are saying he should be respected regardless? odd...

 

As some say Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Nirankar Ji forgave him, but we should not fall into the ways of the Ram Raiyas and keep on the path of Sikhi and bring them back if possible. 

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22 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

when was he forgiven ? because he was forbidden to see his father ...and Dashmesh pita ji told us to stay away from Ram Raiyas and Dhirmallias  

I have heard from another Singh that one of the later Guru ji forgave him as he asked for forgiveness from them for the mistake he had made. But the Ram Raiyas themselves will not admit this and continued to stay heretical even to this day. 

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2 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

I have heard from another Singh that one of the later Guru ji forgave him as he asked for forgiveness from them for the mistake he had made. But the Ram Raiyas themselves will not admit this and continued to stay heretical even to this day. 

I heard the same thing, looking at the RM of DDT and SGPC they both say we shouldn't associate with the followers, but don't really mention anything about Baba Ram Rai.

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On 5 October 2016 at 8:28 PM, harkirat23 said:

Baba Ram Rai Ji is Guru Ji's son, we should always respect him. Agree.

You're meant to respect anyway as everyone's just God dressed up in different forms.

People aren't followed or reverred for just being born into a family, some members of Guru Nanak Dev Jis family used to laugh at him.

It's actions and deeds and moral values that make a person, not the family they are born into, how much wealth they have etc.

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2 hours ago, Lionesswoman said:

You're meant to respect anyway as everyone's just God dressed up in different forms.

People aren't followed or reverred for just being born into a family, Guru Nanak Dev Jis family used to laugh at him except for his sister. 

It's actions and deeds and moral values that make a person, not the family they are born into, how much wealth they have etc.

never Heard Mata Tripta ji ever admonishing or speaking badly of her children in any sakhi...so I am not sure where you got that idea.. Yes his father hit him and scolded him .

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