Who Is Responsible For The Hate Towards Dasam Granth?

[InderjitS]

One thing I cannot understand is if the Sikhs in the past were that solid in their faith,

why did they bow down to the trechourous pommies who took their rule.

So much so they became their loyal slaves and that kind of slave mentality is still found in some posters here.

You mean to deny our ancestors were more pakke in their Sikhi than us?

[dallysingh101]

The Arya Samaj Singh Sabha spat came about 40 years later.

And the repercussions of that still resound today.

It's weird (for me anyway) to have to look at our inherited literature today and see that our scholars felt strongly compelled to start discreetly changing or hiding stuff - instead of countering arguments against Hindus in a more confident, honest fashion.

[dallysingh101]

You mean to deny our ancestors were more pakke in their Sikhi than us?

Let's be real, Jsinghnz has a point.

I think the brits firstly waited until most of the major powerhouse leaders (under whom Sikhs would've united) were dead (Hari Singh Nalwa, Ranjit Singh, Akali Phoola Singh). Then we do have accounts of A LOT of shaheedi taking place during the Anglo-Sikh wars suggesting that many staunch, pukkay Singhs preferred death to surrender or accepting defeat.

Those that were left were probably of a different calibre (more worldly), and for a variety of reasons (animosity against poorbias, job opportunities, loot, money, land) subordinated themselves.

[chatanga]

And the repercussions of that still resound today.

It's weird (for me anyway) to have to look at our inherited literature today and see that our scholars felt strongly compelled to start discreetly changing or hiding stuff - instead of countering arguments against Hindus in a more confident, honest fashion.

Leaving literature aside some Sikhs even went as far as to suggest Guru Granth Sahib needing "editing".

[WaljinderSingh]

A Sikh shouldn't be afraid of going to hell. Whatever Guru Sahib have written is because His humbleness.

"Gur Parmeshar Eiko jaan " (SGGS)

[GPS]

Purpose of a Sikh's life is to attain God realization to get rid of cycle of rebirth and death. That can only be done

By becoming guruwale I.e. Taking naam/gurumantra and with Guru sahib's kirpa. That kirpa will be bestowed when

One treads path of nam simran that gets one rid of maya.

[N30S1NGH]

So does that mean that our Sri Guru Sahib jis should not be called God then? Since I do not have any wish to go to hell..

jae ham ko paramaesar ouchar hai | thae sabh narak kundd mehi par hai |

Translation:- “Those who call me God, will fall into the pit of hell.

This vaak of maharaj should be seen as scolding of our father, cannot be taken literally. However overall message behind this vaak of this maharaj should be taken seriously. What Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji is saying- don't be attached to my transient (shud bhram sargun) saroop-personal god saroop, don't confine me in transient shud sargun saroop. Realize- your and my real saroop which is Advait- non dual Nirgun saroop via bhagti, shabad dhun, shabad gian- bhramgyan.

[Jonny101]

Its a bit confusing to explain this but from what I have understood is that Guru and Vaheguru are ONE, no difference. Even though they are ONE but Guru jee did not want Sikhs to do Bhagti of them. The reason why Guru jee took birth on this world is so people will do Bhagti of Vaheguru and Vaheguru alone. So when Guru jee scolds his Sikhs that you will go to hell if you call me God, it should be seen as an Aadesh or Hukm by Guru ji to not worship Him but to worship Vaheguru even though they are the same.

[WaljinderSingh]

Anology:

A tree consists of roots, bark, branches, leaves and flowers. Each of these exist as a feature of the tree and anyone of these do NOT describe being the tree itself.

Likewise, Waheguru ji are not confined to one body, place and/ or time - They are everything and everywhere.

jae ham ko paramaesar ouchar hai | thae sabh narak kundd mehi par hai |

Another Translation:- Those who call themselves God, will fall into the pit of hell.

[Akalifauj]

Its a bit confusing to explain this but from what I have understood is that Guru and Vaheguru are ONE, no difference. Even though they are ONE but Guru jee did not want Sikhs to do Bhagti of them. The reason why Guru jee took birth on this world is so people will do Bhagti of Vaheguru and Vaheguru alone. So when Guru jee scolds his Sikhs that you will go to hell if you call me God, it should be seen as an Aadesh or Hukm by Guru ji to not worship Him but to worship Vaheguru even though they are the same.

Let's look at the line carefully.

ਜੋ ਹਮ ਕੋ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਉਚਰਿ ਹੈਂ ॥ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਨਰਕਿ ਕੁੰਡ ਮਹਿ ਪਰਿਹੈਂ ॥

The third word in the first tuk means, to say. The word ਉਚਰਿ means in speech(to speak), to explain but interpreting the word as explain, to speak makes no sense also Guru Sahib doesn't know how to put together a sentence!!! Also the tuk would be complete at ਪਰਮੇਸਰ if we interpret it as those who say I (guru sahib) am Vaheguru. There would be no need to add the last two words.

I believe in this context considering all of the bani before and after. This tuk is saying: who says I (Guru Sahib) is higher(does praise higher of Guru Sahib and singles him out as stand alone without Vaheguru) than Vaheguru. Look at Guru Sahib saying Krishna elected himself as God, which says Krishna is higher than Vaheguru.