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If British Intelligence Mi6 Believed Sikhistan Was Imminent What Went Wrong?


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I was reading an article a few years ago regarding what British Intelligence reports were saying that Sikhistan/Khalistan is going to be established very soon during 1940s.

So my question is does anyone have any background information what went wrong to prevent it apart from the British white imperialists not wanting it created?

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I was reading an article a few years ago regarding what British Intelligence reports were saying that Sikhistan/Khalistan is going to be established very soon during 1940s.

So my question is does anyone have any background information what went wrong to prevent it apart from the British white imperialists not wanting it created?

From what I know a separate Sikh state was definitely on the cards but there gadaars like Master Tara Singh who back stabbed the panth and showed loyalty towards inc.

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It was down to economics

That is why in 40's seperate sikh country was rejected

It would of bin very difficult for trade without a port as well the neibours would of dictated trade policies an could implement heavy taxes on anything needed to be imported or exported using india or pakistans ports

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From what I know a separate Sikh state was definitely on the cards but there gadaars like Master Tara Singh who back stabbed the panth and showed loyalty towards inc.

Yeah he was a gaddar as the the freemason maharajah of pataila who didnt want Khalistan created either against sikh kaum's best interests. But it seems like some Sikh rajahs of former princely states and Sikh mililtary commanders within British Indian army also were prepared to put their lot in by preventing the creation of pakistan and division of punjab by creating sikhistan/khalistan first instead.

I have seen communication docs where its suggested jinnah and nehru hated Sikhs spoiling the plans of division of india and even asked the british to control the Sikhs by threat of brutal military force.

It was down to economics

That is why in 40's seperate sikh country was rejected

It would of bin very difficult for trade without a port as well the neibours would of dictated trade policies an could implement heavy taxes on anything needed to be imported or exported using india or pakistans ports

Creating a separate Sikh country would not have been the problem, the problem would have been who ruled it and thats where I think different interest groups within the Sikh kaums clashed and put their lot with different agenda's for the indian subcontinent against best interest of the Sikhs.

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Well before pre partition negotiations Baba Nand Singh sent one of his close personal Kavi Madsudan Singh to Master Tara Singh telling him to involve Maharaja Patiala Yadwinder Singh in the negotiations. Since his father Maharaja Bhupinder Singh and him was very well known to British sending troops for WW1 and 2 and even going to the war fronts. But Tara Singh said what do these sants know about political matters? Well the outcome would have been different if they were involved. Baba Nand Singh also said that this Master Tara Singh along with Gandhi will lead Sikhs to slavery.

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Gandhi Nehru also said before 1947 that Sikhs could have their own area where they could experience 'the glow of freedom', after 1947 they said ' things have change now'. Sikhs again made no legal agreements and trusted a bunch of liars.

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  • 7 months later...
20 minutes ago, proactive said:

From what I have read there was definitely a plan by the Sikh leadership to create Khalistan/Sikhistan in 1947.

The Sikhs did more to plan for a Sih state in Panjab than either the Muslims or HIndus. The only problem was the Sikh state that was envisaged would have a Sikh population of less than 30%. So the British argued how could it actually be a Sikh state. The Sikh population factor was the biggest handicap, followed by our religious heritage being spread all over Panjab. No matter what the Sikhs thought of they couldn't get both together and remain a majority anywhere.

 

20 minutes ago, proactive said:

 The mistake the Sikh leadership made through Baldev Singh was the accept the Radcliffe award in ADVANCE as did the Congress and Muslim League.


To have blind acceptance of the decision of the Radcliffe line was one of the conditions for an early partition. Both the Muslim League and Congress wanted the British gone as soon as possible, and Mountbatten laid the condition that whatever was decided by the British in terms of partition would have to be accepted by Muslims, Sikhs and Congress. All 3 accepted.

 

But, and this is a really big but. The scheming devilish Brit-scum, told the 3 groups that there would be an appeal panel called teh Boundary Commission to which all 3 groups could appeal to if they felt the award was unfair to them. But this commission was wound up the day after the final boundary was demarcated (in Lahore) and so there was no actual process of being able to appeal to the Boundary Commission. 

It is a huge injustice that a border village housing "Sr Darbar Kartarpur" was placed inside Pakistan when it could have come to India instead. Then we would have at least had Guru Nanak's jyoti jyot place in our control. Similarly there were 5 other border villages, I mean properly on the border, which housed important Sikh historical Gurdwaras. These could all have easily come to India, if the Boundary Commission was a genuine organisation. But the british devils deliberately used this ploy to dampen down the Sikh fears.

 

What is also interesting is that the SGPC actually pettitioned the Indian Govt to arrange an exchange of territory in Panjab with the Pakistan Govt, so we could have these precious Gurdwaras in our control, but the indian govt were not interested.

 

20 minutes ago, proactive said:

When you think about it, had the Sikh leadership both in the British areas and in the Sikh states been better prepared the map of South Asia would have been unrecognisible from what it is today.

Unfortunately, the Sikhs were preoccupied with being anti-muslim league, and anti-britsih rule, and not focusing enough on their future position. that scoundrel nehru pledged to the Sikhs in 1929 that "the Sikhs would be given an autonomous unit wher they could feel the glow of freedom." Yet for the next 18 years the Sikhs didn't develop that further in writing and concrete assurances and ended up where we are now.

 

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3 hours ago, chatanga said:

The Sikhs did more to plan for a Sih state in Panjab than either the Muslims or HIndus. The only problem was the Sikh state that was envisaged would have a Sikh population of less than 30%. So the British argued how could it actually be a Sikh state. The Sikh population factor was the biggest handicap, followed by our religious heritage being spread all over Panjab. No matter what the Sikhs thought of they couldn't get both together and remain a majority anywhere.

That is the key for me why our past, present and future depends on our demographics willing to fight for our existence and eventual nationhood. At the moment we have a demographics battle going on in india which is less than 2% population that even christians have taken over which is a disgrace. How has that happened? SGPC puppets and their masters indian establishments wishing for that case.

Guru Gobind singh ji didnt state "without political power everyone will be helpless" for no reason. He knew if you didnt have your own nation state your own administration your own army to protect your religion and community then your basically under the thumb of your oppressors or those who do not have your best interests at heart.
 

4 hours ago, proactive said:

Sikh troops of the PBF should have been won over and thus the PBF neutralised. Like the Jews did exactly a year later, the Sikhs should have aimed to arm the Jathas with more modern weapons and turned them into regular units. The Jews were even able to set up a small Air Force in Palestine just as the British left so something similar could also have been attempted by the Sikhs. There were a lot of Sikh soldiers who had experience in fighting in tank units and the Sikh states should have arranged for the supply of these types of weapons which would have turned the tide against the Muslims in West Punjab. Had this been done then it is likely that given what the Jathas had achieved in East Punjab then these units of paramilitaries could have taken over areas of West Punjab as well.

Another drawback of the Sikhistan plan was that the Sikh states did not fight to become independent after the end of the British paramountcy over them ended in 1947. They meekly accepted a change of masters and had they held out against Mountbatten and with the support of the Sikhs in British areas threatening violence they could have forced Mountbatten to allow them to become independent or merge into an Independent Sikh state. With their eastern front defended by the Sikh state thus preventing any Indian intervention in  Punjab, the Sikhs had they been better armed and formed into regular army units could have had a free hand in West Punjab against a weak Pakistan government. The Sikhs would have had to take West Punjab up to a river boundary so that it would have been easily defensible. The Ravi would have been a good boundary but it would have meant that Nankana Sahib would still be left out so it would probably have been the Chenab as a frontier and this ironically would have been same boundary as demanded by the Sikhs in their representations to the Radcliife commission. The repercussions of what was happening in Punjab would have been felt in other areas of India as well. It is likely that the Rajputana states would have held out for independence as well becoming a headache for India. Seeing what the Sikhs achieving in Punjab, the Dogras may have attempted for an Independent Kashmir and driving out the Muslims from Kashmir making more problems for the Pakistan government. Hyderabad would also have gone for Independence and this would have kept India busy in this area. 

Good points. As we look at our present times now and wonder why is the Sikh nation suffering? We can see why by analysing the past. We are under the thumb or rely on non-sikh authorities for our safety and protection, that is a undesirable position we should have never got in to. And the failure lies squarely at our political and religious leaders having foresight.

It would be interesting to find out if there is documents out there of Sikh kingdom intelligence agents who may have recorded their activities on paper for the states they worked for. I have read how maharajah's of faridkot and jind were quite keen on insuring some sort of Sikh autonomy. Maharajah of patalia was an out right sell out and a freemason (as listed on freemasonry website) so his interests were serving his freemason/ british masters which is did by supplying them with hundreds of thousands of sikh troops in both world wars.

Sikh's did cause alot of trouble for british indian authorities and nehru's congress by trying to prevent the split of punjab. Nehru went as far as to call Sikhs (ie those fighting against the division of punjab) as a tribe of criminals. So already we knew the chess board was already set in such a way that Sikhs had no political hope for their own homeland being sold off to non-sikhs. They had agents already in place to prevent khalistan/sikhistan (ie master tara singh and baldev singh). They had PBF troops in place, they had killed or converted many Sikhs from punjab and prevented Sikhs from organising any real opposition. They let put their castist agents in SGPC who prevented dalits from embracing Sikhism and created rehat maryada out of the air putting sehjdhari sikhs into the camp of hindu punjabi's  which if that did not happen would have given a huge population to create separate country to rival pakistan.

So all in all Sikhs had to fight a physical bloody ruthless fight to get any slice of the independence/freedom cake. MI6 had embarrassing information on maharajah's so they blackmailed maharajah of paitala, nehru , gandhi  and jinnah. Often these intelligence agencies used plots and tapped information to take down their political opponents just like they do to this very day. If there was more people like donald trump as he is like teflon nothing sticks to him no matter what he does or says then blackmail would not work ever.

So thats how the british imperialists got people in their pockets it wasnt all about alleged  talk of freedom and huge financial incentives via swiss bank accounts It was a much more carefully planned chess game and the game was already set to ensure Sikhs never got their independence as we can see in 1984 how the british establishment again helped the Indian establishment to plan murder of innocent Sikh civilians and of religious and political sikh figures (ie sant jarnail singh bhindranwale). They did not want us to get independence and still dont because their scummy agents in india are happily making the British billions in trade import and exports.

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17 hours ago, genie said:

Guru Gobind singh ji didnt state "without political power everyone will be helpless" for no reason.

Guru Sahib never stated it.

 

17 hours ago, genie said:

Sikh's did cause alot of trouble for british indian authorities and nehru's congress by trying to prevent the split of punjab.

I don't know what books you have been reading, but you're wrong. It was the Sikhs who wanted partition of Panjab to stop ALL of Panjab going to Pakistan.

 

17 hours ago, genie said:

Nehru went as far as to call Sikhs (ie those fighting against the division of punjab) as a tribe of criminals.

No he didn't.

 

17 hours ago, genie said:

They had agents already in place to prevent khalistan/sikhistan (ie master tara singh and baldev singh).


Master Tara Singh was no agent. He was just not politically shrewd or longsighted. But he wasn't an agent.

 

17 hours ago, genie said:

They had PBF troops in place, they had killed or converted many Sikhs from punjab and prevented Sikhs from organising any real opposition.

 

The PBF was a hopeless force from day 1. It was wound up after 2 weeks because it was so ineffective. They did have one major encounter with a sikh jatha in Amritsar, where they killed about 62 Sikhs from the jatha.

 

Your post seems quite full of hysteria more than anything. What books have you read about partition?

 

 

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13 minutes ago, chatanga said:

Guru Sahib never stated it.

He is said to have state this “Without political power, Dharma cannot be practised, and without Dharma, the society would be an admixture of scum. Nobody will offer you sovereignty. It will have to be obtained with the force of arms.” - Guru Gobind Singh Ji

14 minutes ago, chatanga said:

I don't know what books you have been reading, but you're wrong. It was the Sikhs who wanted partition of Panjab to stop ALL of Panjab going to Pakistan.

I've read the history of Sikhs by kushwant singh and other sources over the years and I've seen actual secret documents where Nehru communicated he wanted the Sikhs sorted out because they were violently resisting the partition of punjab with armed groups.

16 minutes ago, chatanga said:

No he didn't.

What planet you on. He (nehru) did call Sikhs a tribe of criminals go do your research its all over the web.

17 minutes ago, chatanga said:

Master Tara Singh was no agent. He was just not politically shrewd or longsighted. But he wasn't an agent.

 

Master tara singh was an agent of the british and the hindutva orgs he was born as a punjabi hindu who later converted to Sikhism to infiltrate Sikh orgs. How did this unknown failed school headteacher come to represent the prestige of the Sikh community who ruled an empire? you living in la la land if you think he wasnt an agent.

19 minutes ago, chatanga said:

The PBF was a hopeless force from day 1. It was wound up after 2 weeks because it was so ineffective. They did have one major encounter with a sikh jatha in Amritsar, where they killed about 62 Sikhs from the jatha.

I've read actual secret documents from the british authorities of the time that state they were using their PBF troops to prevent Sikh armed groups from preventing partition.

And as for the british killing and trying to convert sikhs what do you think they did when they invaded the Sikh empire? They killed Sikh civilians who resisted after capturing lahore and they raped, pillaged and they tried to convert Sikhs to christianity how you think they got their hundred churchs in punjab and a church at harmandir sahib which was later destroyed by the sikhs.

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On 21/05/2016 at 8:42 AM, lsingh said:

Gandhi Nehru also said before 1947 that Sikhs could have their own area where they could experience 'the glow of freedom', after 1947 they said ' things have change now'. Sikhs again made no legal agreements and trusted a bunch of liars.

but why did they take the oath of Gandhi , when Guru Pita ji had told us to never believe in oaths given to us on any holy granth ...?

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On 1/15/2017 at 7:19 PM, chatanga said:

The Sikhs did more to plan for a Sih state in Panjab than either the Muslims or HIndus. The only problem was the Sikh state that was envisaged would have a Sikh population of less than 30%. So the British argued how could it actually be a Sikh state. The Sikh population factor was the biggest handicap, followed by our religious heritage being spread all over Panjab. No matter what the Sikhs thought of they couldn't get both together and remain a majority anywhere.

If the population factor was detrimental to the Sikh cause then the Sikh leadership needed to think outside the box. There were the Sikh states which had a population of 3.5 million of which Sikhs were 39%, Hindus 34% and Muslims 24%. So they would have been the nucleus of a Sikh state. With the Muslims gone from these states the Sikhs would have been a majority. These states had treaties with the British and once the British announced they were leaving then these Sikhs should have reverted to the independent status they had before the British came. 

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12 hours ago, genie said:

He is said to have state this “Without political power, Dharma cannot be practised, and without Dharma, the society would be an admixture of scum. Nobody will offer you sovereignty. It will have to be obtained with the force of arms.” - Guru Gobind Singh Ji

I've read the history of Sikhs by kushwant singh and other sources over the years and I've seen actual secret documents where Nehru communicated he wanted the Sikhs sorted out because they were violently resisting the partition of punjab with armed groups.

What planet you on. He (nehru) did call Sikhs a tribe of criminals go do your research its all over the web.

Master tara singh was an agent of the british and the hindutva orgs he was born as a punjabi hindu who later converted to Sikhism to infiltrate Sikh orgs. How did this unknown failed school headteacher come to represent the prestige of the Sikh community who ruled an empire? you living in la la land if you think he wasnt an agent.

I've read actual secret documents from the british authorities of the time that state they were using their PBF troops to prevent Sikh armed groups from preventing partition.

And as for the british killing and trying to convert sikhs what do you think they did when they invaded the Sikh empire? They killed Sikh civilians who resisted after capturing lahore and they raped, pillaged and they tried to convert Sikhs to christianity how you think they got their hundred churchs in punjab and a church at harmandir sahib which was later destroyed by the sikhs.

The Sikhs were the ones which had fought for the partition of Punjab. The British were quite happy to leave the Punjab as a whole to Pakistan but it was the agitation by the Sikhs that forced them to deny Jinnah the whole of the Punjab. The Sikh agitation especially to stop the Muslim League minority government from taking power in Punjab was what convinced the British that the Sikhs would never accept Muslim rule in Punjab.  The Sikhs especially after the March massacres in Rawalpindi knew that if the whole of the Punjab went to Pakistan then the Muslims would make life hell for the Sikhs. What the Sikhs were violently resisting was a partition line which was splitting the Sikh population in half and placing millions of Sikhs and the Sikh shrines in Pakistan/

That quote is attributed to Trivedi as South Indian who Nehru appointed as governor of East Punjab in 1947.

Master Tara Singh was not a traitor. He became a Sikh out of choice and had he been a traitor as you allege then after 1947 and having in your view betrayed Sikh interests why did he fight for Punjabi Suba? Surely Nehru would have awarded his treachery and Master Tara Singh could have had an easy life. If anything his life was a life of struggle to get the Sikhs their due rights in India.  

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