Why Didn't "low-caste" People In India Become Sikh?

[simran345]

What was this suppose to be?

Bumped the thread, as I added Gurbani to it.

[dallysingh101]

I hope people take home lessons from this thread.

That there are many people deeply invested in, and vehemently practicing casteism amongst us, that such people come in all shapes and guises, including those who consider themselves Amritdhari. And we should be under no illusion that this is some small minority. Despite some of these people's claims to the contrary, their beliefs effect their attitudes and behaviour towards those they deem beneath them - sometimes blatantly, sometimes more subtly. Behaviour and attitudes that would disgust anyone with even a smattering of humanity isn't uncommon from these casteists.

The problems we have with some people leaving the faith; or mistrust between castes; or people reacting to consistent, boorish, negative behaviour by forming their own Gurdwaras stems from this. People not wanting to be stuck in a Khalistan where such people would be able to dominate unhindered, also influences attitudes towards the idea of Sikh self-rule.

That's the hard truth.

Casteists are not practicing some harmless preservation of some perceived ethnic/tribal identity as they often claim, but causing all manner of havoc in Sikh society, ultimately making it weaker and weaker.

Don't tolerate it or the excuses made for it.

[dallysingh101]

Bump

[SinghPunjabSingh]

The fault lies with us as Punjabi Sikhs for not focussing upon the poor and downtrodden as Sikhi instructs us to do.

Outside of east Punjab, Sikhs comprise 0.3% of the rest of the Indian population. Most Indians have no knowledge of Sikhi which is not surprising given that our own people don't even know who and where our Panj Piare were from and that most of them were from backgrounds that the Hindu's and Muslims consider "low caste".

Via a combination of sewa, parchaar and social upliftment in Punjab itself and to the poor in India outside Punjab we should be able to build upon facts such as:

*the recent Chief Minister of east Punjab (Channi) was from a so-called "low caste" background in the eyes of Hindu's and Muslims and in stark contrast to the fact that Pakistani Punjab is run by a Muslim Brahmin - Hamza Shahbaz (Butt).

*the Chief Jathedar of the SGPC is from a so-called "low caste" background

*the majority of Granthi's & Gursewaks at Gurdwara's are from a so-called "low caste" background

*Shaheed Bhai Sangat Singh Ji led the Sikh Fauj at Guru Sahib's behest which the Muslims scoffed at the Sikh Qaum being led by an erstwhile "Chamar" in the Muslim Slavemaster's eyes.

*Shaheed Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji was derided as a "Bihari Chuhra" by the Muslim enemies of the Sikh Panth yet is amongst the bravest of the brave our Panth ever blessed us with. 

*the number of so-called "low caste" MLA's have consistently exceeded the number of Jat MLA's since 1980's

*the majority of Kesdhari youth left in Punjab are from a so-called "low caste" background

*so-called "low castes" comprise 34% plus of the east Punjab population in contrast to Jats who are 21% of the population 

*Singh Sabha was driven forward by Giani Ditt Singh who was decried by Muslims and Hindu's for being of Chamar ancestry

And given the majority of the Panj Piare were from a so-called "low caste" background in the eyes of the Hindu and Muslim enemies of the Sikh Panth ...

The main question we need to ask ourselves is why are we as Diaspora Sikhs so weak in doing sewa and parchaar about Sikhi to 250 million so-called "Dalits" in India?

We could make a start by ensuring Sikhs only worship in one united saanjha Gurdwara for all in every pind in Punjab and every locality in the West and funding the education of poor Sikhs and so-called Dalits outside Punjab as done by Baru Sahib and British Sikh Council and the Sikh Human Development Foundation.

[SinghPunjabSingh]

ScAli regarding Master Tara Singh this is inaccurate history and slander that you might have misheard from some nindak presumably.

Master Tara Singh Ji was a Hindu convert himself to Sikhi who desperately wanted all Indians (especially the poor) to embrace Sikhi.

It was Nehru that threatened Dr Ambedkar that he will not permit SC/ST reservations seats should Dr Ambedkar decide to become Sikh.

The false urban myth regarding Master Tara Singh (who championed the poor) is somewhat similar to the tale being spun nowadays that it was Sikhs who wanted Indira Gandhi to attack in June 1984 when nothing could be further from the truth.

After August 15th 1947 Nehru worked hard upon detaching sehajdhari Sikhs outside Punjab away from the Panth. As these sehajdhari Sikhs held Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj close to their hearts.

That population of erstwhile sehajdhari Sikhs presently detached from the Panth numbers in excess of 100 million people in India today.

Similarly, Nehru encouraged Punjabi speaking Sikhs via financial inducement to give their children the surnames of Ram, Kumar, Devi and Rani on birth certificates and declare Hindi as their mother tongue as a tactic in order to lesson demands for a Punjabi suba.

Kanshi Ram was one of those children as his parents were called Hardev Singh and Bibi Bishan Kaur.

As the realisation that Nehru had was that if all those associated with leatherworking ancestry outside Punjab were to enumerate as self-declared sehajdhari Sikhs on the 1951 census then the population of the Sikh Panth would have QUADRUPLED over 1941 census numbers which themselves were almost double the 1881 thanks to the dedication of Giani Ditt Singh Ji of the Lahore Singh Sabha who was always derided by the Muslim and Hindu enemies of the Panth for being a "Chamar" intellectual leading the Sikh Panth.

And that's before factoring for what Nehru did to decouple Kabirpanthi Sikhs, Sanatani Sikhs from UP and Bihar, Hazoori Sikhs from Patna, Vanjara Sikhs outside Punjab and indeed even many Sikligar and Deccan Sikhs outside Punjab who particularly since 1947 have in many instances assimilated into the surrounding majority due to the financial penalties imposed upon them for daring to enumerate as Sikhs despite them being poor in the first place.

For obvious reasons Nehru did not desire a powerful hardworking and upwardly mobile Sikh minority of 10% of the Indian population as that would have matched Muslim numbers in India and hence why his descendants created Dera Ballan in order to fragment the Sikh Qaum and turn it into a demographic minority in Punjab and rebrand 60million Ravidasi Sikhs throughout India as Hindu Chamars with a brand new pilgrimage enriching the Hindutva supporting shopkeepers of Benares to match.

On 5/31/2016 at 8:34 PM, Ranjeet01 said:

When Ambedkar became Buddhist, how many Dalit followed suit. 

How can we be sure that Ambedkar becoming Sikh would have resulted in millions of Dalit becoming Sikh?

Thanks to Dr Ambedkar there are now almost 10million Buddhists in India but obviously as a minority of less than 1% among a 1.4billion population they have very limited power.

If those 10million Buddhists were Sikhs today instead then the Sikh Panth would have a 50% larger population and more ability to fight for progressive social change and Sarbat da Bhala throughout India and the Congress Genocide of Sikhs could well have been avoided. Certainly if all the sehajdhari Sikhs detached from the Panth in the 35years prior to 1984 had remained Sikh then there would have been no chance whatsoever of Indira Gandhi daring to perpetrate a Genocide against Sikhs comprising 10% of the Indian population.

Regardless of the fact that Nehru was able to strongarm Dr Ambedkar into preventing him and his followers from joining Sikhi there is nothing stopping us focussing on the 250 million poorest and downtrodden Indians now known as Dalits. But in order to do so we need to united every pind in Punjab under a single united saanjha Gurdwara with immediate effect.

And if we look beyond Dalits and include all poor people in India currently falsely defined as "Hindu's" for votebank politics the number is 1,000million poor people in India who are yearning for freedom, equality and dignity to become tomorrow's sehajdhari Sikhs outside Punjab (if we can clean up the apartheid disease foisted on the Qaum since 1984 in east Punjab first).

 

On 5/31/2016 at 11:48 PM, StarStriker said:

Well technically, according to the hindu caste system, most of the tribes who make up the sikh population, are of lower caste anyways. 

Exactly the majority of the Sikh Panth have always been from the historically lower economic echelons of Punjabi society whereas the vast majority of Punjabi Muslims take pride in their supposedly "high caste" ancestry.

On 6/1/2016 at 6:47 PM, scali said:

As I stated in my posts 

Master Tara Singh Ji in fact opened Khalsa College at Matunga, Bombay to enable those children derided as "lower castes" by Hindu and Muslim society to get an education. It was this sewa bhawaana of Sikhs assisting our gareeb brethren under Master Tara Singh's direction in far away Maharashtra that first kindled Dr Ambedkar's interest in Sikhi.

Yes it is a shame Nehru swerved Dr Ambedkar away from Sikhi back then but we need to concentrate on what we can do in today's present time to encourage all of the poor and downtrodden globally (but especially in east Punjab, in India outside Punjab and among non-Muslim black Africans) to feel welcome, supported and equal stakeholders within the Sikh Panth as all so-called "low castes" are true natural born Sikhs who we should prioritise.

[ChardikalaUK]

The whole Dr Ambedkar story is overplayed and makes no sense. He became a Buddhist, did all the tens of millions low caste Hindus of that time become Buddhists? Nope, very few did, the vast majority remained Hindus. If he became a Sikh instead the vast majority of the davits would have remained Hindus.

 

[Suchi]

1 hour ago, ChardikalaUK said:

The whole Dr Ambedkar story is overplayed and makes no sense. He became a Buddhist, did all the tens of millions low caste Hindus of that time become Buddhists? Nope, very few did, the vast majority remained Hindus. If he became a Sikh instead the vast majority of the davits would have remained Hindus.

 

That's because of the Communal Act brought in by the British that gave reservations for seats to Sikhs, Jains,  Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Anglo-Indians, Europeans. Furthermore Dalits/SC-ST were promised economic reservations that were denied to other minorities. 

Classic Divide and Rule Policy to break up India. 

Gandhi realised that seats would be skewed in favour of Sikhs and went on a fast unto death to avoid fragmenting India and Nehru threatened not to introduce reservations for Dalits if they converted. 

Hence why most Dalits preferred to stay as Dalits, even though they continue to claim reservations by hiding their new religion if they converted. Anyhow reservations were supposed to be only for 10 years not 70 as is happening. 

 

 

 

[SinghPunjabSingh]

@ChardikalaUK Ji.

Paji you are absolutely correct that this urban myth stupidly blaming Sikhs (instead of Nehru) is beyond bizarre.

However, the 10million present day Buddhists in India that could have been part of the Panth today is no small number.

Especially in the context that Sikhs numbered 20million in India in the 2011 census and now the India population is estimated to show 1.4 Billion population with Sikh population likely to remain static due to below replacement fertility rates among Sikhs.

(Meanwhile the Pakistani's have increased their population from 25million in 1947 to around 225million currently and are projected to reach 400million Slavemaster Pedophile supporters by 2050).

These Ambedkarite Buddhists are 100% our people (fellow Sikhs in essence) even if Nehru and the British Empire temporarily succeeded in preventing them from joining the Panth.

So the main thing is we focus on the 250 million so-called Dalits and 1,000 million poor people in India.

But we can only do that when we unite every pind in Punjab under a single united Gurdwara and defeat the deep state (RAW) strategy to turn present day Sikhs of Ravidasi and Mazhabi ancestry into tomorrow's Hindu Dera Ballan and Hindu Balmiki Dera apartheid worshippers as that would turn the Sikh Panth into a minority in Majha and Malwa overnight (just like we already are a minority in Doaba where many in the Sikh Diaspora have roots). 

[proudkaur21]

13 hours ago, SinghPunjabSingh said:

@ChardikalaUK Ji.

Paji you are absolutely correct that this urban myth stupidly blaming Sikhs (instead of Nehru) is beyond bizarre.

However, the 10million present day Buddhists in India that could have been part of the Panth today is no small number.

Especially in the context that Sikhs numbered 20million in India in the 2011 census and now the India population is estimated to show 1.4 Billion population with Sikh population likely to remain static due to below replacement fertility rates among Sikhs.

(Meanwhile the Pakistani's have increased their population from 25million in 1947 to around 225million currently and are projected to reach 400million Slavemaster Pedophile supporters by 2050).

These Ambedkarite Buddhists are 100% our people (fellow Sikhs in essence) even if Nehru and the British Empire temporarily succeeded in preventing them from joining the Panth.

So the main thing is we focus on the 250 million so-called Dalits and 1,000 million poor people in India.

But we can only do that when we unite every pind in Punjab under a single united Gurdwara and defeat the deep state (RAW) strategy to turn present day Sikhs of Ravidasi and Mazhabi ancestry into tomorrow's Hindu Dera Ballan and Hindu Balmiki Dera apartheid worshippers as that would turn the Sikh Panth into a minority in Majha and Malwa overnight (just like we already are a minority in Doaba where many in the Sikh Diaspora have roots). 

pakistan will collapse anyways. Its already a failed country and there is no way they can support this many people. I see they keep increasing and just collapse.

[ChardikalaUK]

22 hours ago, SinghPunjabSingh said:

@ChardikalaUK Ji.

Paji you are absolutely correct that this urban myth stupidly blaming Sikhs (instead of Nehru) is beyond bizarre.

However, the 10million present day Buddhists in India that could have been part of the Panth today is no small number.

Especially in the context that Sikhs numbered 20million in India in the 2011 census and now the India population is estimated to show 1.4 Billion population with Sikh population likely to remain static due to below replacement fertility rates among Sikhs.

(Meanwhile the Pakistani's have increased their population from 25million in 1947 to around 225million currently and are projected to reach 400million Slavemaster Pedophile supporters by 2050).

These Ambedkarite Buddhists are 100% our people (fellow Sikhs in essence) even if Nehru and the British Empire temporarily succeeded in preventing them from joining the Panth.

So the main thing is we focus on the 250 million so-called Dalits and 1,000 million poor people in India.

But we can only do that when we unite every pind in Punjab under a single united Gurdwara and defeat the deep state (RAW) strategy to turn present day Sikhs of Ravidasi and Mazhabi ancestry into tomorrow's Hindu Dera Ballan and Hindu Balmiki Dera apartheid worshippers as that would turn the Sikh Panth into a minority in Majha and Malwa overnight (just like we already are a minority in Doaba where many in the Sikh Diaspora have roots). 

That's a good point but we have to be honest, we Sikhs can be extremely casteist ourselves. We still use words like chamaar and choora as derogatory terms to describe dirty people. This is why Ravidassias have set up their own religion.