Sikhism On Vegan ?

[Guest Jacfsing2]

26 minutes ago, Thanatos said:

Sis that's totally true but it's like you said, to give up desires. I've noticed alot of people claiming they do it out of Daya and compassion (not drinking milk) but the use of animal products in other every day items should also be something they can easily give up. But most don't, Guru Sahib taught us not to be hypocrites as well. There's no point creating a song and dance about how you've given this up and that if you can't give up things even less important than milk.

Daya is a complex issue by itself; especially since we aren't one of those pacifist faiths, but rather a faith where sacrifice for righteousness is necessary. How Daas would define Daya is when you see something going on; you do what you can to assist that person, and in any way possible try making the world better for everyone, (though it's all Vaheguru's hand). We are the only faith that does Ardas for true Sarbat Da Bhalla; just do your part; however, don't be one of those Fanatic PETA; who are so fanatical that they can't even wear Kacheras for their animals; as well as their violence to other humans over humans or don't be those Animal Liberation Brigade folk especially since they've reached the opposite of Daya, and have reached Extremism.

[jkvlondon]

40 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Daya is a complex issue by itself; especially since we aren't one of those pacifist faiths, but rather a faith where sacrifice for righteousness is necessary. How Daas would define Daya is when you see something going on; you do what you can to assist that person, and in any way possible try making the world better for everyone, (though it's all Vaheguru's hand). We are the only faith that does Ardas for true Sarbat Da Bhalla; just do your part; however, don't be one of those Fanatic PETA; who are so fanatical that they can't even wear Kacheras for their animals; as well as their violence to other humans over humans or don't be those Animal Liberation Brigade folk especially since they've reached the opposite of Daya, and have reached Extremism.

yeah killing humans for animals is just mental.

[jkvlondon]

1 minute ago, Preeet said:

What about halal then, that is food as well.. What about eating too many unhealthy foods? I think there is a fine line between which foods are pavitra and pavitra foods are of sattvic qualities aka fresh vegetables/fruits. Believe it or not, there is a difference! Why are there no meat products in the Sri Langar Sahib jis then?? 

 

She said all foods are equally pavitra, and if you agree with that you might as well become high as well off bhaang. 

Guru ji has given Faisla on Halal and other meats killed in God's name , same of drugs ....they are not allowed ...honestly leave it be , go do some naam jap

[Singhni MiriPiri]

3 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

Guru ji has given Faisla on Halal and other meats killed in God's name , same of drugs ....they are not allowed ...honestly leave it be , go do some naam jap

 

You are not obliged to answer. The same can be said to you- "go do some Naam Jap".

You should read this:
http://manvirsingh.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/different-views-on-meat-reflections-on.html?m=1

Different views on Meat: Reflections on Kuttha, Jhatka and Halal Meat...

 

The Sikh Rehit Maryada states the following four actions for a Sikh is a 'Bajjar Kurehit' or cardinal prohibitions that result in a Sikh becoming a Patit or apostate:

1) ਕੇਸਾਂ ਦੀ ਬੇ-ਅਦਬੀ । 
(Dishonouring the hair)
2) ਕੁੱਠਾ ਖਾਣਾ । 
(Eating 'Kutthaa')
3) ਪਰ-ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਜਾਂ ਪਰ-ਪੁਰਸ਼ ਦਾ ਗਮਨ (ਭੋਗਣਾ) । 
(Intimacy with a man or woman other than your spouse) 
4) ਤਮਾਕੂ ਦਾ ਵਰਤਣਾ । 
(Using tobacco)

 

 

Kuttha – Does it mean meat or halal meat?  

There is disagreement within the Sikh Panth on the meaning of the word ‘Kutthaa’. At some point in history, some Sikhs began to eat meat and as a result this has led to differences in interpretation of what Kutthaa means. 

• Position 1: “Kutthaa means that meat killed according to Muslim rites”
  
• Position 2: Kutthaa means meat slaughtered in accordance to Muslim rites, however eating meat is prohibited in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and one has to pay Karmic debt for killing and eating meat. In a situation when one is fighting for the Panth and all other food has been exhausted and not available, in order to survive to fight for the Panth, one can eat Jhatka meat. 
  
• Position 3: Kutthaa means any killed meat, regardless of the method, which includes a prohibition of fish and eggs. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji prohibits eating meat and eating meat would excommunicate someone. 

 

Position 1: 

The origin and basis of Halaal method of slaying animals by Muslims may have been sacrificial. However, by the time of the Sikh Gurus, it had just become a "Muslim method" without any consideration of its sacrificial origin. The original practice had become professionalized and commercialized and remains so even now. 

 

So, according to the generally prevailing idea as advocated by Sikh scholars holding this viewpoint, the main reason for imposing this taboo of not eating Halaal meat is not that it is sacrificial or even religious. Rather this taboo had been imposed primarily to liberate the Sikhs from mental slavery of the then rulers of the Muslim faith who had banned by law the slaying of animals by any method other than Halaal. If this interpretation is accepted, then the following points arise:

1. With the changed times now, when there is no longer such coercion from any quarter, there should be no need for continuing this taboo in the list of the four taboos because the reason for the imposition of this taboo no longer exists.
   
2. It implies that the four Bajjar Kurehats (cardinal prohibitions) which, which are of fundamental importance, may not necessarily be conducive to spiritual enhancement of the soul through Naam-Simran; their objective being merely to create a spirit of moral, and, according to some, physical strength to face the unjust and tyrannic rule of the then rulers. Obviously, this cannot be the situation as the main and the only objective of Guru Ji was and is to implant the Holy Naam firmly in the minds of the Sikhs through Holy Amrit (Khande-Ki-Pahul). One cannot imagine the All-knowing Guru imposing a prohibition of such basic importance which has no relationship with, or which does not help his Sikhs in the achievement of the Spiritual Bliss.
   
3. Is it okay to eat meat killed in accordance to Hindu or Jewish rites? Wouldn’t eating meat in predominantly Christian country according to their culture, be a form of accepting mental slavery of the West or Christians?
   
4. If one is allowed to meat, then what is the method to slaughter the animal and why is not mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, other religious scriptures or the Sikh Rehat Maryada itself?
   
5. How would we classify fish? Is it Halaal or Jhatka? 

   Fish being killed

    
   
   
6. This position contradicts the Hukamnama of Guru Hargobind Ji found at Sri Harmandir Sahib, Patna Sahib (published in Hukamname, edited by Gandha Singh), which states: 

   ਮਾਸ ਮਛੀ ਦੇ ਨੇੜੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਆਵਣਾ ||
   "Do not come near (i.e. consume) meat and fish." 

   
   
7. Halaal means lawful. If Sikhs cannot eat Halaal meat, then suggests Sikhs can eat the opposite, which is 'Haraam' (unlawful). This doesn't make sense.

Some other viewpoints are have come across that are used to support the prohibition being interpreted as "eating meat slaughtered according to Muslim rites" are:

• It is a cruel method of killing animals. Sikhi advocates compassion and mercy.
  Reply: Isn't killing period cruel? If compassion and mercy for animals is such an issue then why kill them in the first place for food when there are plentiful of 'compassionate' and 'merciful' options for food, i.e. vegetarian and vegan foods.
  
• Sikhs are forbidden from eating 'ritually killed meat'. 
  Reply: Anything can become a ritual. Brushing your teeth can be a ritual. Why would ritually killed meat be banned? The method of slaughtering animals by pro-meat eaters called 'Jhatka' practised at places like Sri Hazoor Sahib is no less a ritual than any other religious tradition's method. In fact, the ritualism surrounding 'Jhatka' by those Sikhs who practise it, resembles very close the rituals associated to Jhatka practised by Hindus.
   
• Sikhs are forbidden from "eating meat of an animal killed with prayers."
  Reply: For those who believe in the Jhatka tradition, it is requirement to say "Sat Siree Akaal!" (God is True) when killing the animal. What makes this any different to saying  "Bismillah, Allahu Akbar!" (In the name of Allah - God is Great) before slitting the throat like Muslims? Gurbani actualy tells us that any action done without prayer or remembrance of the Divine, is cursed. So the fact that it seems wrong to kill animals with prayers, would suggest not to kill animals at all.

  ਸਭੇ ਵਖਤ ਸਭੇ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਲਾ || ਖਾਲਕੁ ਯਾਦਿ ਦਿਲੈ ਮਹਿ ਮਉਲਾ ||
  "Always, at every moment, remember God, the Creator within your heart." (Maaro M:5, 1084)

 

Position 2:  

1. It is myth to believe that Jhatka meat (i.e. meat killed with one stroke of the sword) is the Sikh method of slaughtering because the word Jhatka does not appear anywhere in the Sikh Rehat Maryada nor Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Historically in India, Jhatkawas the Hindu method of killing animals for consumption and ritual sacrifices. During Durga Puja and Kali Puja, it is a requirement for Hindu worshippers of Shiva (Shivaites) to have Jhatka meat. 

   Jhatka of a Buffalo by Hindus for Durga Puja

2. There are many examples from history where Gursikhs have had been deprived of food whilst fighting for the Panth against tyrants, but yet they have not relied on eating meat. During the siege of Gurdas Nangal in 1715, Baba Banda Singh Bahadar Ji and the 7-800 Sikhs were forced to eat grass, leaves and bark as the food rations finished, but there is no documentation that they ate meat. In June 1984, the Singhs fighting against the India Army, fought non-stop for days with no food supplies.
   
3. A true Gursikh relies on the support of Naam:

   ਜਨ ਕੀ ਭੂਖ ਤੇਰਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਹਾਰੁ || 
   “Your Name is the food to satisfy the hunger of Your humble servants.” (Soohee M:5, 743) 

 

Position 3: 

The word ‘kutthaa’ appears in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji a number of times. Kutthaa can have two meanings: either to butcher, kill or destroy or alternatively, it can mean meat (the product of killing, butchering, destroying). The root of the word ‘kutthaa’ is ‘kutthaar’ or axe. 

ਗਾਵੈ ਜਮਦਗਨਿ ਪਰਸਰਾਮੇਸੁਰ ਕਰ ਕੁਠਾਰੁ ਰਘੁ ਤੇਜੁ ਹਰਿਓ || 
"Parasraam the son of Jamdagan, whose axe and powers were taken away by Raghuvira, sing of Him.” (Bhatt Kall Svaiyye M:5, 1389) 

The question that immediately comes to mind is, if kutthaar is the root of kutthaa, when has an axe ever been used in halaal meat? A sharp blade is used, but never an axe. An axe is used to give swift blows whereas in halal, the knife or blade is used to slice the throat. Looking at how ‘kutthaa’ has been used in Gurbani we have the following example:

ਇਕੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਾਉ ਦੁਯਾ ਕੁਠਾ ||
“The One Immaculate Lord is pervading everywhere; He destroys the love of duality.” (Gauree M:5, 321) 

If we replaced the translation of the word ‘kutthaa’ as “destroys” instead with “Halaal”, then the verse would mean that the love of duality will be “halaaled”? Clearly it can only mean to destroy or kill. Halaal would not make sense here. The act of killing or butchering will produce something butchered (meat). It is illogical to suggest it will produce “Muslim meat”. 

 

The example often used to suggest that kuttha refers to Muslim meat is: ਅਭਾਖਿਆ ਕਾ ਕੁਠਾ ਬਕਰਾ ਖਾਣਾ || ਚਉਕੇ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਿਸੈ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ || (Aasa M:1, 471). Rather than support kutthaa meaning halaal, this line is strong proof that kutthaa means only meat. If kutthaa meant ‘halal meat’ then there would have been no need or reason to qualify it with “ਅਭਾਖਿਆ ਕਾ ”. Abhaakiyaa refers to the Muslim Kalma which is recited when butchering animals for halaal but is “un-utterable” for Hindus as it would convert them to Islam. If kutthaa means halaal then this translation would be “Kalma-Halaal meat.” That’s completely redundant as Halaal is by definition with the Kalma. But because kutthaa is just ‘meat’, it required ‘abhaakhiyaa’ to show it's a reference to Muslim meat here. 

  

Conclusion on meat 

Rehat is supposed to be supplementary to Gurbani and not to be read and followed in isolation. Irrespective of what ‘Kutthaa’ means, Gurbani clearly does not advocate the eating of meat and instead forbids one from eating meat, regardless of opinion on whether one thinks eating Muslim meat or any form of meat is the cardinal prohibition that results in apostasy. 

 

The following guiding principals are outlined in Gurbani, which clearly forbid the eating of meat, fish and eggs:

1. Guru Ji instructs to eat simple and to eat little. (Eating meat goes against this): 
   i) ਖੰਡਿਤ ਨਿਦ੍ਰਾ ਅਲਪ ਅਹਾਰੰ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਤੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੋ ||੮|| 
   “Sleep little, and eat little; O Nanak, this is the essence of wisdom. ||8||” (Raamkalee M:1, 939) 
   
   ii) ਸੰਤਨ ਕਾ ਦਾਨਾ ਰੂਖਾ ਸੋ ਸਰਬ ਨਿਧਾਨ || 
   “The dry bread of the Saints is equal to all treasures.” (Bilaaval M:5, 811) 
   
   iii) ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਖਾਣਾ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੈਨਣਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਡਾਈ ਹੋਇ ||੧|| 
   “Amrit is their food, and Amrit is their clothes; O Nanak, through Naam, the Name of the Lord, greatness is obtained. ||1||” (Goojree M:3, 511) 
   
   iv) ਖਾਤ ਪੀਤ ਅਨੇਕ ਬਿੰਜਨ ਜੈਸੇ ਭਾਰ ਬਾਹਕ ਖੋਤ || 
   “(Forsaking Naam,) one who eats and drinks countless delicacies is no more than a donkey that carries a heavy load.” (Kedaara M:5, 1121) 
    
2. Be kind towards all beings. (Cruelty and murdering animals for one’s appetite and food goes against this): 
   i) ਅਠਸਠਿ ਤੀਰਥ ਸਗਲ ਪੁੰਨ ਜੀਅ ਦਇਆ ਪਰਵਾਨੁ || 
   “Be kind to all beings-this is more meritorious than bathing at the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage and the giving of charity.” (Maajh M:5, 136) 
   
   ii) ਦੂਖੁ ਨ ਦੇਈ ਕਿਸੈ ਜੀਅ ਪਤਿ ਸਿਉ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਵਉ || 
   “Do not cause any being to suffer, and you shall go to your true home with honour.” (Gauree M:5, 322) 
   
   iii) ਮਨਿ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਸਰਬ ਜੀਅ ਦਇਆ || 
   “Let your mind be content, and be kind to all beings.” (Gauree M:5, 299) 
   
   iv) ਹਿੰਸਾ ਤਉ ਮਨ ਤੇ ਨਹੀ ਛੂਟੀ ਜੀਅ ਦਇਆ ਨਹੀ ਪਾਲੀ || 
   “Cruelty has not left your mind; you have not cherished kindness for other living beings.” (Saarang Bhagat Parmanand Ji, 1253)
   
3. Don’t kill for the pleasure of one’s taste and appetite. 
   i) ਰੋਜਾ ਧਰੈ ਮਨਾਵੈ ਅਲਹੁ ਸੁਆਦਤਿ ਜੀਅ ਸੰਘਾਰੈ || ਆਪਾ ਦੇਖਿ ਅਵਰ ਨਹੀ ਦੇਖੈ ਕਾਹੇ ਕਉ ਝਖ ਮਾਰੈ ||੧|| 
   “You keep your fasts to please Allah, while you murder other beings for pleasure. You look after your own interests, and so not see the interests of others. What good is your word? ||1||” (Aasa Kabeer Ji, 483)
   
4. Religious people are not supposed to butchers of meat: 
   i) ਜੀਅ ਬਧਹੁ ਸੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਅਧਰਮੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਤ ਭਾਈ || ਆਪਸ ਕਉ ਮੁਨਿਵਰ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਕਾ ਕਉ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਸਾਈ ||੨|| 
   “You kill living beings, and call it a righteous action. Tell me, brother, what would you call an unrighteous action? You call yourself the most excellent sage; then who would you call a butcher?” (Maaroo Kabeer Ji, p. 1102)
   
5. Vaheguru’s Light is within all beings. (Unnecessarily killing animals and intentionally given them pain goes against this): 
   i) ਜਉ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਕਹਤ ਹਉ ਤਉ ਕਿਉ ਮੁਰਗੀ ਮਾਰੈ ||੧|| 
   “You say that the One Lord is in all, so why do you kill chickens? ||1||” (Prabhaatee Kabeer Ji, 1350) 
   
   ii) ਘਟ ਘਟ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਜੂ ਬਸੈ ਸੰਤਨ ਕਹਿਓ ਪੁਕਾਰਿ || 
   “The Dear Lord abides in each and every heart; the Saints proclaim this as true.” (Salok M:9, 1427)
   
6. The pleasure and appetite of meat is spiritual hindrance: 
   i) ਰਸੁ ਸੁਇਨਾ ਰਸੁ ਰੁਪਾ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਰਸੁ ਪਰਮਲ ਕੀ ਵਾਸੁ || ਰਸੁ ਘੋੜੇ ਰਸੁ ਸੇਜਾ ਮੰਦਰ ਰਸੁ ਮੀਠਾ ਰਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ || ਏਤੇ ਰਸ ਸਰੀਰ ਕੇ ਕੈ ਘਟਿ ਨਾਮ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ||੨|| 
   “The pleasures of (accumulating) gold and silver, the pleasures of women (i.e. lust), being caught in the pleasure of fragrances, the pleasure of (riding) horses, the yearning of luxuries of palaces, being caught in the pleasure of tasty sweet treats and the pleasure of meat – If the human body is attached to these numerous pleasures then how can Naam, the Name of the Lord, find its dwelling in the heart?” (Siree Raag M:1, p. 15)
   
7. Grain and vegetation is the diet of the spiritual seeker: 
   i) ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖ ਤੇ ਹੋਇ ਅਨਾਦਿ || ਜਪੀਐ ਨਾਮੁ ਅੰਨ ਕੈ ਸਾਦਿ ||੧|| ਰਹਾਉ|| 
   “Grain comes from the Primal Lord. Only with the energy generated by food grains in the body, can the recitation of the Naam be possible.” (Gond Kabeer Ji, 473)
   
   ii) ਦਾਲਿ ਸੀਧਾ ਮਾਗਉ ਘੀਉ || 
   “Lentils, flour and ghee - these things, I beg of You.” (Dhanaasree Dhanna Ji, 695) 
   
   iii) ਨਿਤ ਰਸੋਈ ਤੇਰੀਐ ਘਿਉ ਮੈਦਾ ਖਾਣੁ || 
   “Your kitchen always has ghee and flour to eat.” (Raamkalee Satta and Balvand Ji, 968)
   
8. Committing tyranny or using force to obtain food is unlawful. (Killing animals uses tyranny and force): 
   i) ਕਬੀਰ ਜੋਰੀ ਕੀਏ ਜੁਲਮੁ ਹੈ ਕਹਤਾ ਨਾਉ ਹਲਾਲੁ || ਦਫਤਰਿ ਲੇਖਾ ਮਾਂਗੀਐ ਤਬ ਹੋਇਗੋ ਕਉਨੁ ਹਵਾਲੁ ||੧੮੭|| 
   “Kabeer, to use force is tyranny, even if you call it legal. When your account is called for in the Court of the Lord, what will your condition be then? ||187||” (Salok Bhagat Kabeer Ji, 1374) 
   
   ii) ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਅ ਜੁ ਮਾਰਹਿ ਜੋਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਕਹਤੇ ਹਹਿ ਜੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ || ਦਫਤਰੁ ਦਈ ਜਬ ਕਾਢਿ ਹੈ ਹੋਇਗਾ ਕਉਨੁ ਹਵਾਲੁ ||੧੯੯|| 
   “Kabeer, they oppress living beings and kill them, and call it proper. When the Lord calls for their account, what will their condition be? ||199||” (Salok Bhagat Kabeer Ji, 1375)
   
9. Vaheguru has given humans the thirty-six types of food that are labelled ‘Amrit’ for us to eat (which doesn’t include fish, eggs, and meat): 
   i) ਛਤੀਹ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਜਿਨਿ ਭੋਜਨ ਦੀਏ || ਅੰਤਰਿ ਥਾਨ ਠਹਰਾਵਨ ਕਉ ਕੀਏ || ਬਸੁਧਾ ਦੀਓ ਬਰਤਨਿ ਬਲਨਾ || ਤਿਸੁ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਕੇ ਚਿਤਿ ਰਖੁ ਚਰਨਾ||੪|| 
   “God gave you the thirty-six varieties of tasty foods; He gave you a place within the body to hold and digest these foods; He gave you the earth, and things to use; enshrine in your consciousness the feet of that Lord and Master.” (Raamkalee M:5, p. 913) 
   
   ii) ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਦਿਤਾ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਲੈਣਾ|| ਛਤੀਹ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਭੋਜਨੁ ਖਾਣਾ || 
   “Everything we receive is a gift from Him -(For example) the thirty-six delicious foods to eat.” (Maajh M:5, p. 100) 
   
10. The metaphor of eating a ‘murdaar’ (dead body) is used for negative and condemned behaviour: 
    i) ਕੂੜੁ ਬੋਲਿ ਮੁਰਦਾਰੁ ਖਾਇ || 
    “Telling lies, they eat dead bodies (i.e. meat).” (Maajh M:1, p. 139) 
    
    ii) ਲਬੁ ਕੁਤਾ ਕੂੜੁ ਚੂਹੜਾ ਠਗਿ ਖਾਧਾ ਮੁਰਦਾਰੁ || 
    “Greed is a dog; falsehood is a filthy street-sweeper. Cheating is eating a dead carcass.” (Siree Raag M:1, p. 15)
    
11. One will have to pay the karmic debt for eating meat. 
    i) ਕਬੀਰ ਖੂਬੁ ਖਾਨਾ ਖੀਚਰੀ ਜਾ ਮਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਲੋਨੁ || ਹੇਰਾ ਰੋਟੀ ਕਾਰਨੇ ਗਲਾ ਕਟਾਵੈ ਕਉਨੁ ||੧੮੮|| 
    “O Kabeer! The dinner of lentils and rice is excellent, even if it is (just) flavoured with salt. Who would cut their throat, to have meat with their bread?” (Salok Kabeer Ji, p. 1374) 
    
    ii) ਕੁਹੈ ਕਸਾਈ ਬਕਰੀ ਲਾਇ ਲੂਣ ਸੀਖ ਮਾਸੁ ਪਰੋਆ|| ਹਸਿ ਹਸਿ ਬੋਲੇ ਕੁਹੀਂਦੀ ਖਾਧੇ ਅਕਿ ਹਾਲੁ ਇਹੁ ਹੋਆ|| ਮਾਸ ਖਾਨਿ ਗਲਿ ਛੁਰੀ ਦੇ ਹਾਲੁ ਤਿਨਾੜਾ ਕਉਣੁ ਅਲੋਆ||
    “The butcher slaughters goat and its meats is salted and strung on a skewer. Laughingly, the goat says while being killed that I have come to this condition only for grazing leaves of akk plant. But what will be the plight of those who cutting the throat with knife eat flesh (of animal).” (Bhai Gurdaas Ji: Vaar 37, Pauri 21)
    
12. Eating meat destroys acts of Dharam: 
    i) ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ || ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ||੨੩੩|| 
    “Kabeer, whoever consumes marijuana, fish and wine - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||” (Salok Kabeer Ji, 1377) 
    
    ii) ਜੇ ਕਸਾਈ ਉਧਰਿਆ ਜੀਆ ਘਾਇ ਨ ਖਾਈਐ ਭੰਗਾ ||
    “If Sadhana, the butcher, got across (the world ocean), we should not put ourselves to harm by killing others.” (Bhai Gurdaas Ji: Vaar 31, Pauri 9)
    
13. Eating meat makes our mind impure: 
    i) ਜੇ ਰਤੁ ਲਗੈ ਕਪੜੈ ਜਾਮਾ ਹੋਇ ਪਲੀਤੁ || ਜੋ ਰਤੁ ਪੀਵਹਿ ਮਾਣਸਾ ਤਿਨ ਕਿਉ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਚੀਤੁ || 
    “If one's clothes are stained with blood, the garment becomes polluted. Those who suck the blood of human beings-how can their consciousness be pure?” (Maajh M:1, 140)
     
14. Eating meat is unhealthy for the mind and body (See article):
    i) ਬਾਬਾ ਹੋਰੁ ਖਾਣਾ ਖੁਸੀ ਖੁਆਰੁ || ਜਿਤੁ ਖਾਧੈ ਤਨੁ ਪੀੜੀਐ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਚਲਹਿ ਵਿਕਾਰ ||੧|| ਰਹਾਉ||      
    “O Brother! The pleasures of those foods lead to ruin; eating which, the body becomes diseased (i.e. unhealthy), and wickedness and corruption enter into the mind. ||1||Pause||” (Siree Raag M:1, 16)
     
15. Meat production is harmful for the environment (See article):
    i) ਪਉਣ ਪਾਣੀ ਧਰਤੀ ਆਕਾਸੁ ਘਰ ਮੰਦਰ ਹਰਿ ਬਨੀ ॥  ਵਿਚਿ ਵਰਤੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਆਪਿ ਝੂਠੁ ਕਹੁ ਕਿਆ ਗਨੀ ॥੨॥੧॥ 
    "Air, water, earth and sky - the Lord has made these His home and temple (to reside). O Nanak! He Himself is pervading everywhere. Tell me: what can be counted as false? ||2||1||" (Tilang M:4, 723)
    
    ii)  ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਵਸਿਆ ॥ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ਲਖਿਆ ॥੧॥ 
    "I am a sacrifice You, the Creator, who pervades within the creation. ਰਹਾਉ ॥  Your limits cannot be known. ||1||Pause||" (Aasa M:1, 469)

Guru Ji used to go out and hunt and provide the hunted animals with liberation. Sikhs cannot use this as an excuse to eat meat. How can we liberate someone else, when we do not have the ability to make ourselves liberated? 

…ਛੱਤੀ ਪਦਾਰਥਾਂ ਦੇ ਹੁੰਦਿਆਂ ਜ਼ਬਾਨ ਦੇ ਸੁਆਦ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਮਾਸ ਖਾਣਾ ਬਿਲਕੁਲ ਵਿਵਰਜਤ ਹੈ; ਮਾਸ ਖਾਣ ਨਾਲ ਬੁੱਧੀ ਪਸ਼ੂ ਵਰਗੀ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ | ਬਾਣੀ ਪੜ੍ਹਨ ਤੋਂ ਮਨ ਆਲਸ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ | ਬਾਬਾ ਦੀਪ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਕ੍ਨਚੇ ਬੇਰ ਖਾ ਕੇ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਚਾਰ ਸਰੂਪ ਲਿਖੇ ਸਨ ਜੋ ਵ੍ਨਖ ਵ੍ਨਖ ਤਖਤਾਂ ਦੇ ਬਿਰਾਜਮਾਨ ਹਨ | ੮੯ ਸਾਲ ਦੀ ਉਮਰ ਵਿਚ ਜੰਗ ਕਰਕੇ ਜ਼ਾਲਮਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਨਾਸ ਕੀਤਾ | ਉਹਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਨਾਮ ਬਾਣੀ ਤੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਦੀ ਸ਼ਕਤੀ ਸੀ | ਇਸ ਲਈ ਕੋਈ ਮਾਸ ਖਾਣ ਦੀ ਆਗਿਆ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੈ |“...Eating meat for one’s own taste buds is forbidden when we have been blessed by Vaheguru with thirty-six varieties of foods. Eating meat makes a person’s intellect become animalistic. The mind will become lazy from reading Bani. Baba Deep Singh Ji lived off eating unripe berries and wrote four saroops (copies) of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which are present at the different Takhts. At the age of eighty-seven he went to battle and destroyed the tyrants. They had the power of Naam, Bani and Amrit. For this reason there is no permission to eat meat.” 
(Gurmat Rehat Maryada, Giani Baba Jarnail Singh (Bhindranwale), p. 29)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Important:  Individuals interpret the Sikh Rehit Maryada and Gurbani with differing levels, which leads to small differences in observance of Maryada within the Panth. There are certain controversies in the Panth where different Sikhs have different opinions and ways of looking at things. However, it is important to remember we are all the children of Guru Ji and part of one family - the Khalsa Panth. 

 

One thing all Sikhs have in common is love Vahiguru and Guru, and striving to live a life that pleases the Almighty. It is important that non-meat eaters show respect, tolerance and love to meat-eaters, and vice-versa. Although we have our own religious convictions, the Guru has showed that vegetarianism alone will not get one salvation. Practise of Naam-meditation, along with Godly-virtues, such as compassion, kindness, and humility etc, is the Path of enlightenment, and all religious disciplines are spiritual aids to help us keep on the Path and prevent us from falling.

[jkvlondon]

honestly I was listening to dasmesh pita ji's bani and this whole thing made sad so spoke a little harsher than I should have but we are 'banda ik dammi' no time really at all have a great day bhain ji

[Thanatos]

3 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

for me I do ardas of gratitude for the good weather and plants that gave its life and the people's efforts (farmer, merchant, transporter, shopkeeper) for my use . I think doing ardas before eating is vital because we are so blessed and yet we do not take time to consider the days and months and years of blessings that are pargat in that meal/thing. 

This whole fanaticism reminds me of the whole "Tea is anti-Gurmat" wave that seeped into the forums, people will find a new thing to ban as "anti-Gurmat"  

Reminds me of this.

ਬਸੰਤੁ ਹਿੰਡੋਲੁ ਘਰੁ ੨ बसंतु हिंडोलु घरु २ Basanṯ hindol gẖar 2 Basant Hindol, Second House:
ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥ Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ. One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
ਮਾਤਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਪਿਤਾ ਭੀ ਜੂਠਾ ਜੂਠੇ ਹੀ ਫਲ ਲਾਗੇ ॥ माता जूठी पिता भी जूठा जूठे ही फल लागे ॥ Māṯā jūṯẖī piṯā bẖī jūṯẖā jūṯẖe hī fal lāge. The mother is impure, and the father is impure. The fruit they produce is impure.
ਆਵਹਿ ਜੂਠੇ ਜਾਹਿ ਭੀ ਜੂਠੇ ਜੂਠੇ ਮਰਹਿ ਅਭਾਗੇ ॥੧॥ आवहि जूठे जाहि भी जूठे जूठे मरहि अभागे ॥१॥ Āvahi jūṯẖe jāhi bẖī jūṯẖe jūṯẖe marėh abẖāge. ||1|| Impure they come, and impure they go. The unfortunate ones die in impurity. ||1||
ਕਹੁ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਸੂਚਾ ਕਵਨੁ ਠਾਉ ॥ कहु पंडित सूचा कवनु ठाउ ॥ Kaho pandiṯ sūcẖā kavan ṯẖā▫o. Tell me, O Pandit, O religious scholar, which place is uncontaminated?
ਜਹਾਂ ਬੈਸਿ ਹਉ ਭੋਜਨੁ ਖਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ जहां बैसि हउ भोजनु खाउ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Jahāʼn bais ha▫o bẖojan kẖā▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o. Where should I sit to eat my meal? ||1||Pause||
ਜਿਹਬਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਬੋਲਤ ਜੂਠਾ ਕਰਨ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ਸਭਿ ਜੂਠੇ ॥ जिहबा जूठी बोलत जूठा करन नेत्र सभि जूठे ॥ Jihbā jūṯẖī bolaṯ jūṯẖā karan neṯar sabẖ jūṯẖe. The tongue is impure, and its speech is impure. The eyes and ears are totally impure.
ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਕੀ ਜੂਠਿ ਉਤਰਸਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਅਗਨਿ ਕੇ ਲੂਠੇ ॥੨॥ इंद्री की जूठि उतरसि नाही ब्रहम अगनि के लूठे ॥२॥ Inḏrī kī jūṯẖ uṯras nāhī barahm agan ke lūṯẖe. ||2|| The impurity of the sexual organs does not depart; the Brahmin is burnt by the fire. ||2||
ਅਗਨਿ ਭੀ ਜੂਠੀ ਪਾਨੀ ਜੂਠਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਬੈਸਿ ਪਕਾਇਆ ॥ अगनि भी जूठी पानी जूठा जूठी बैसि पकाइआ ॥ Agan bẖī jūṯẖī pānī jūṯẖā jūṯẖī bais pakā▫i▫ā. The fire is impure, and the water is impure. The place where you sit and cook is impure.
ਜੂਠੀ ਕਰਛੀ ਪਰੋਸਨ ਲਾਗਾ ਜੂਠੇ ਹੀ ਬੈਠਿ ਖਾਇਆ ॥੩॥ जूठी करछी परोसन लागा जूठे ही बैठि खाइआ ॥३॥ Jūṯẖī karcẖẖī parosan lāgā jūṯẖe hī baiṯẖ kẖā▫i▫ā. ||3|| Impure is the ladle which serves the food. Impure is the one who sits down to eat it. ||3||
ਗੋਬਰੁ ਜੂਠਾ ਚਉਕਾ ਜੂਠਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਦੀਨੀ ਕਾਰਾ ॥ गोबरु जूठा चउका जूठा जूठी दीनी कारा ॥ Gobar jūṯẖā cẖa▫ukā jūṯẖā jūṯẖī ḏīnī kārā. Impure is the cow dung, and impure is the kitchen square. Impure are the lines that mark it off.
ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਤੇਈ ਨਰ ਸੂਚੇ ਸਾਚੀ ਪਰੀ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ ॥੪॥੧॥੭॥ कहि कबीर तेई नर सूचे साची परी बिचारा ॥४॥१॥७॥ Kahi Kabīr ṯe▫ī nar sūcẖe sācẖī parī bicẖārā. ||4||1||7|| Says Kabeer, they alone are pure, who have obtained pure understanding. ||4||1||7||

 

 

Find it amusing how people are drawing comparisons with drugs while not knowing the definition of the word food. Utterly moronic. 

 

[jkvlondon]

1 hour ago, Preeet said:

If there is something that I cannot eat in the name of God, I will for sure not eat it. So there goes your argument! & why are there no meat in the Sri Langar Sahib ji????

there is no meat in langar so there is no discrimination against those with dietary restrictions most faiths have no objections to vegetable and bread, all can partake of Guru Nanak Dev ji's langar. . It is simple food to keep body and soul together , and remove distraction of hunger during bhagti  nothing more or less.

 

[MrDoaba]

4 hours ago, Preeet said:

She said all foods are equally pavitra, and if you agree with that you might as well become high as well off bhaang. 

Stop trying to be clever you numpty. As mentioned above I think you need to look at the definition of food.

The drink bhang isn’t exactly imbibed for nutritional content and so cannot be considered foodstuff.

There’s a difference between consuming food or a substance for its nutritional/medicinal value and consuming it for its psychoactive properties i.e to get high. If something has been prepared exclusively for its intoxicating effects then a Sikh would not be permitted to consume it without good reason e.g. injury, surgery etc.

In Indian languages the word ‘bhang’ refers to the cannabis plant or to the prepared drink. One can happily consume raw cannabis without experiencing intoxicating effects.  

[Thanatos]

16 minutes ago, MrDoaba said:

Stop trying to be clever you numpty. As mentioned above I think you need to look at the definition of food.

The drink bhang isn’t exactly imbibed for nutritional content and so cannot be considered foodstuff.

There’s a difference between consuming food or a substance for its nutritional/medicinal value and consuming it for its psychoactive properties i.e to get high. If something has been prepared exclusively for its intoxicating effects then a Sikh would not be permitted to consume it without good reason e.g. injury, surgery etc.

In Indian languages the word ‘bhang’ refers to the cannabis plant or to the prepared drink. One can happily consume raw cannabis without experiencing intoxicating effects.  

It's nice to see people can tell the difference between a 2 words and concepts.

It's fascinating isn't it? how people are labelling pure and impure but don't realise that everything is made of the same things (protons,electrons,neutrons etc etc). Really amazing thing Duality.

[MrDoaba]

32 minutes ago, Preeet said:

@MrDoaba nutritional content or not, in can be still seen as food! If you are going to support meat, then I am not going to bother replying since my motive is gone.

Food

noun

1. any nutritious substance that people or animals eat or drink or that plants absorb in order to maintain life and growth.

Drug

noun

1. Pharmacology. a chemical substance used in the treatment, cure, prevention, or diagnosis of disease or used to otherwise enhance physical or mental well-being.

2. any article, other than food, intended to affect the structure or any function of the body of humans or other animals.

3. a habit-forming medicinal or illicit substance, especially a narcotic. 

 

Intention

 

noun

 

1. an act or instance of determining mentally upon some action or result.

2.the end or object intended; purpose.
 

 

 

Think about the three words above. See if something in your simple brain clicks.

 

You don't have any motive, you're trying to do clevery and it's not working.