Question About Khanda Sahib

[simran345]

I have read all the posts, all single replies in almost 6 mnthsyears, thats why I pointed it out. I am not saying u are bad

U r gud people but when u got time to write essays, why dont u have time to write one simple sentence on every sexual post as " admins, plz delete this post this is not related to sikhism""

Nobody replies there like this.

Nd when admins block some normal posts why dnt u tell them not to?

I have no personal hate with u guys, I quoted ur names as i found ur replies frequently on most topics,

Infact ur answers that i read are good suggestion also but why dnt u all make sexual posts bann on here.

Admins are bunch of head shaking type but u should make stupid posts stop.

Think of someone muslim or hindu or a white christain if visit this forum and start reading all posts just for knowledge like me, he.she will find out like me after two months

"What the h e l l , Indian religions says western culture is too sexual related but look at the thinking of people here, sikhs just like to talk about sexuality and nothing else""

Its a disgrace for all of ur, nd the admins(who think their self as Gods controlling the universe) are responsible for it first, nd second is people like u guys who dnt have time to make admins stop from such posts

We are not the admins/mods here. Why don't you do it, instead of complaining about us? You are wrong in saying people here just like to talk about sexuality and nothing else, because is that all you read? Don't you read any other topics? Take a look there's plenty.

Any topic on lust doesn't mean we should brush them under the carpet either. Kaam, Krodh, Lobh Moh Ahankar are also discussed.

Why can't you do what you mentioned? What's stopping you to? Why do you want somebody else to do what you are not happy with? Do it yourself, what others are unable to do.

[Guest Gupt]

I tried but got blocked my these morons

[simran345]

I tried but got blocked my these morons

With all due respect to you Paji or penji, members do try to stop wrong posts as much as they can, within their limits.

But if one or two are not suitable then maybe they have been missed. Oh Okji that's why you are writing Gupt, understandable.

Pro Caste topics are also not right, and when it does get out of hand then an admin does come along to lock the topics from what I've seen. But really don't know how you are associating the names you wrote with the topics mentioned.

Bhul chuk maf karna Ji.

[harsharan000]

I have read all the posts, all single replies in almost 6 mnthsyears, thats why I pointed it out. I am not saying u are bad

U r gud people but when u got time to write essays, why dont u have time to write one simple sentence on every sexual post as " admins, plz delete this post this is not related to sikhism""

Nobody replies there like this.

Nd when admins block some normal posts why dnt u tell them not to?

I have no personal hate with u guys, I quoted ur names as i found ur replies frequently on most topics,

Infact ur answers that i read are good suggestion also but why dnt u all make sexual posts bann on here.

Admins are bunch of head shaking type but u should make stupid posts stop.

Think of someone muslim or hindu or a white christain if visit this forum and start reading all posts just for knowledge like me, he.she will find out like me after two months

"What the h e l l , Indian religions says western culture is too sexual related but look at the thinking of people here, sikhs just like to talk about sexuality and nothing else""

Its a disgrace for all of ur, nd the admins(who think their self as Gods controlling the universe) are responsible for it first, nd second is people like u guys who dnt have time to make admins stop from such posts

Guptmem Jee,

whatsoever you say, it is quite respectable and acceptable also. But you must bear one thing in mind, nobody is perfect nor that knowledgeable in all fields, despite they may reply in almost all topics.

And that is all what being humans is about. We are normal people, with our ups and downs, like any other mortal on this earth.

We do get sick, we laugh, we cry, we feel pain, and moreover in one word, we are full of virtues and vikars, some with more others with less. we may dress in a different way, but we have a mind like any other being which makes us dance with its tunes....

So you see, we are sikhs...we are not Gurmukhs, thus we are imperfect. And if we gather whether personally at some place, or like here on this website, so, this gathering is known as sangat, in a way, as sikhs being gathered here, we can ceratinly call this website: Sikh Sangat.

There is nothing wrong in it.

Other thing is, we as sikhs have a goal, which is Wahiguru Akal Purukh. And to reach and merge in Him, there is only one way, that is putting into practice, the essence of Gurmat, which many try to complicate, when our Guru sahibans, out of their infinte mercy, made it simple in one practical way, which is His Simran.

And as I have stated it at different ocassions, it is as follows: Jin Har japeeya,se Har hoeeya.

This is the essence of Gurmat in short. Though I am very much aware, that many do not like to hear or read this, as it does not telly with their picture of sikhee in their minds.

I will never say, I am totally right, as again, this is what I have understood through my different phases as a sikh student, thus I share with anyone freely here on this website, or, anywhere I get a chance to interact with my sikh sisters and brothers.

I have no hard or fast rules, I am quite open and accept different people and their beleifs, be they from any dharam or walk of life. Everyone deserves respect, as long as, behaves as normal human beings, this means, not to harm anyone by speech, action or thought, and being helpful.

As everyone comes with his/her own chalked destiny. If we can hardly change ourselves, how come can we change others? The thing is, do not impose anything on anyone, be natural, be truthful, be an example of what you say, and if the other person likes and feels what you say, surely, they will accept it and slowly change themselves. But do not get me wrong, the change is not for swarth or wordly side; but for the parmarth or spiritual path.

As said, sikhee, is not about discussions or debates, it is about putting into practice Gurmat, which will bring automatic changes in us for betterment as human beings, and gradually we shall start getting attracted and closer and closer towards Wahiguru ....

Just by doing this or going there, we do not get closer to Wahiguru, thus, even if we call ourselves sikhs, it is only our delusion, betterment can never take place in us.

It is only by putting into practice the Hukum of our Guru Sahibans, we do become real sikhs first, and then we become gurmukhs, and after that only we become one with Wahiguru.

That is it.

Sat Sree Akal.

[simran345]

Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji ki Fateh ji

Harsharan Singh paji, you have made very importants points in your reply. One thing which should be added is that we are actually perfect. Everything is perfect in the sense that Sri Paramatma ji has everything made exactly the way Sri Paramatma ji wishes. If we are finding negative lakshans/qualities within ourselves then we are also indirectly insulting Sri Paramatma ji since we are their creation. There is nothing in this world that is imperfect, since what can Sri Paramatma ji create that is not perfect to Sri Paramamta ji's wishes? That is something to think about. Everything happening is due to Sri Paramatma ji's own wish, we shall focus on our swami ji with true self willed devotion without judging Sri Paramatma ji's creations as right or wrong. Once this is seen, you will obtain sarv-anand, since you will notice that there is pain in nothing because Sri Paramatma ji is everywhere. This is the goal of bhakthi/naam jaapna.. To remember Sri Paramatma ji in everything, thus you will receive sarv-anand.

No, humans are never perfect, only God is perfect. We are imperfect due also to our karm. I think you are confusing Waheguru's Hukam with people's karm.

If we are perfect, then why does Guruji tell us this:

ਤੂ ਪੂਰਾ ਹਮ ਊਰੇ ਹੋਛੇ ਤੂ ਗਉਰਾ ਹਮ ਹਉਰੇ ॥

तू पूरा हम ऊरे होछे तू गउरा हम हउरे ॥

Ŧū pūrā ham ūre hocẖẖe ṯū ga▫urā ham ha▫ure.

Thou art perfect and I am imperfect and worthless. Thou art profound and I am but trifling.

SGGSji Ang 596

?? Dhan Guru Nanak Dev ji

Bhagat Nam Dev ji said themselves:

ਕਹਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਤੂੰ ਮੇਰੋ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਜਨੁ ਊਰਾ ਤੂ ਪੂਰਾ ॥੨॥੨॥

कहत नामदेउ तूं मेरो ठाकुरु जनु ऊरा तू पूरा ॥२॥२॥

Kahaṯ nāmḏe▫o ṯūʼn mero ṯẖākur jan ūrā ṯū pūrā. ||2||2||

Says Namdev, Thou alone are my Lord I, Thy servant, am imperfect and Thou are Perfect.

SGGS ji Ang 1252

ਜਿਉ ਜਿਉ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਤਿਵੈ ਤਿਉ ਕਰਨਾ ॥

जिउ जिउ हुकमु तिवै तिउ करना ॥

Ji▫o ji▫o hukam ṯivai ṯi▫o karnā.

As is the Lord's order, so do men do.

ਕੋਊ ਊਨ ਨ ਕੋਊ ਪੂਰਾ ॥ कोऊ ऊन न कोऊ पूरा ॥

Ko▫ū ūn na ko▫ū pūrā.

No one is imperfect and no one is perfect.

ਕੋਊ ਸੁਘਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਊ ਮੂਰਾ ॥

कोऊ सुघरु न कोऊ मूरा ॥

Ko▫ū sugẖar na ko▫ū mūrā.

By himself none is wise and none foolish,

ਜਿਤੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਲਾਵਹੁ ਤਿਤੁ ਤਿਤੁ ਲਗਨਾ ॥

जितु जितु लावहु तितु तितु लगना ॥

Jiṯ jiṯ lāvhu ṯiṯ ṯiṯ lagnā.

where-so-ever Thou engagest man, there he gets engaged.

SGGS ji Ang 252

?? Dhan Guru Arjan Dev ji

" If we are finding negative lakshans/qualities within ourselves then we are also indirectly insulting Sri Paramatma ji since we are their creation. "

This is a very wrong sentence, one who sees themselves as perfect is actually the insult to God, not what you have written. If that's the case, then why do the Gurus and Bhagats and countless Saints always say only the Lord, Waheguru is perfect and they are the beggars?

[Balkaar]

Singh ji, most people i have seen here usually replies to posts that are important like gf bf love sexuality etc,

The respect for khanda and other similar topics are considered unimportant by majority of members.

They dnt even like to reply here.

Some members who are always present here, they will reply in seconds to these IMPORTANT topics but not for ur type of topics, better to ask any gurmukh inperson

Thanks veer

This is totally correct, some of us in the Sangat here just don't have an answer for the Khanda issue.

If people are treating this topic like it's unimportant, that's because it isn't very important.

The khanda has no historical precedent in Sikhi at all. The puraatan emblem of the Khalsa was the trio of degh, tegh and katar, as found in all the old depictions of nishaan sahibs. The OP's question about whether it should be as highly esteemed as GURU SAHIB [really? ) betrays some ignorance of Sikh itihaas.

Treat it as you would a picture of the Guru's. Symbolic of some aspect of the Sikh faith, but completely unworthy of respect or reverence in itself.

[harsharan000]

Preet Jee,

thanks for your observations, but let us have a look at them from a different point of view, and being objective as much as possible.

Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji ki Fateh ji

Harsharan Singh paji, you have made very importants points in your reply.

One thing which should be added is that we are actually perfect.

I would say, we are only perfect as souls, as jeev atmas.

The body is transient, changes, and decays and one day gets dissolved in the 5 tattwas

Everything is perfect in the sense that Sri Paramatma ji has everything made exactly the way Sri Paramatma ji wishes.

Everything created by Wahiguru, is perfect, in the sense, the creation works / moves, on the principles settled by Akal Purukh, which no creature can change

If we are finding negative lakshans/qualities within ourselves then we are also indirectly insulting Sri Paramatma ji since we are their creation.

Please, remove this type of ideas from your mind.

He is Oouch, He is Apaar, He is Beant Soami, absolutely nobody can insult Him. To think otherwise, it only shows, how much mooraks we are.

He is Alakh, He is Anami, He is Agam. So if He is such wonderful, how come any god or any stupid person insult Him, or hate Him, or have enimity with Him?

It is just absurd.

There is nothing in this world that is imperfect,

Sorry, but the creation below Sach Khand is imperfect. And it is imperfect, because He wishes it to be so. So who can have any objection at all ever?

Remember, He only, is Param Sat - Chit - Anand.

He is changeless, He is eternal, as He only is. He is the source of all knowledge, of all bliss.

We, due to the coverings of the 3 bodies, and mind upon our souls, , surrounded by Maya, and tied with the heavy chains of karmas, sanskaras, we are trapped in the mayavee creation, thus away from Him.

since what can Sri Paramatma ji create that is not perfect to Sri Paramamta ji's wishes?

If He had not created this dark and sorrowful mayavee creation, we are so dumb, we would never even think of returning to Him.

So, for our betterment and evolution, He has purposely made the creation below Sach Khand as imperfect, so that at some point, we may think and considere of returning to Him.... He is so Dayalu and we are so moorakh agaynis

That is something to think about. Everything happening is due to Sri Paramatma ji's own wish,

This is absolutely true

we shall focus on our swami ji with true self willed devotion

Correct, there is no other way either.

without judging Sri Paramatma ji's creations as right or wrong.

Once again, nobody can ever judge Him. It is just silly to think otherwise. We are puppets,toys, in His Creation, and as such, what say have we got?

Once this is seen, you will obtain sarv-anand, since you will notice that there is pain in nothing because Sri Paramatma ji is everywhere.

Sorry once again. But to see Him everywhere, you have to see Him first within.

We know, fire is in wood, but that fire can not cook our food, unless we use a jugtee to bring out the fire from that wood, thus then heat and cook our food.

In the same way, Wahiguru is present everywhere, but in that state, He does not prevent a robber from stealing, He does not stop a murderer from killing and so on...

So you see, just to say with wide mouth open, Wahiguru is everywhere, without experimenting Him ourselves, it is just as good as bluffing and fooling

This is the goal of bhakthi/naam jaapna..

Absolutely correct, then only can we merge in Him

To remember Sri Paramatma ji in everything, thus you will receive sarv-anand.

One does not remember Parmatma in everything, rather in oneself. Becasue, rememberance is within the mind, and the mind is withn the body.

So everything starts, from oneself and within. Outside is all maya, thus perishable. And we all know, He is changeless, He is Akal moorat, means beyond time and space, He is ajoonee, means birthless, deathless .... Changes ocurr only, there where is imperfection.

Sat Sree Akal.

[simran345]

Thank you Harsharan Paji for going into depth on this. But I'm not understanding the 3bodies? Please could you explain to me what the 3bodies are?

" We, due to the coverings of the 3 bodies, and mind upon our souls, , surrounded by Maya, and tied with the heavy chains of karmas, sanskaras, we are trapped in the mayavee creation, thus away from Him."

[harsharan000]

Thank you Harsharan Paji for going into depth on this. But I'm not understanding the 3bodies? Please could you explain to me what the 3bodies are?

" We, due to the coverings of the 3 bodies, and mind upon our souls, , surrounded by Maya, and tied with the heavy chains of karmas, sanskaras, we are trapped in the mayavee creation, thus away from Him."

You are most welcome Simran Pen Jee.

Well more than depth, I would say, some clarifictaions were needed, as Preet Pen Jee had made some observations.

Any how, if someone willingly closes oneself, no matter what one may say, not a single penny will go inside that person.

I am glad at least you understood.

The 3 bodies on the soul, are, the physical one or the gross material body; then the subtler astral body, and then the causal one, the subtlest one.

But subtler even than all this, is the soul, a drop of the Infinte samundar Wahiguru Akal Purukh, the source of everything, and when with the aid of Shabad or Nam, one cuts all these layers upon the soul, and washes the sins or karmas of countless lives, only then we become pure paviter, spotless, and become worthy with His Grace to merge in Him, never ever otherwise.

It is then, when the Bani says : Nanak Naam jahaz hae, jin chareeya, se utareeya paar.

But then we may ask, paar from where to where?

From Brahm or mayavee creation(which consists of the gross, the astral and the causal realms, thus known also as triloki creation), to the Paarbrahm creation, means beyond the reach of mind, maya or Kal Purukh.

From there on, the Jahaaz of Naam, takes the sikh soul, direct to the lap of Wahiguru Akal Purukh, our True Father.

Wahiguru is happy beyond description, upon receiving back His beloved astrayed soul in the wheel of 84 .

Once there in Sach Khand, the passenger soul, the charioter Naam, blend and become one with Wahiguru without any distinction.

Such is the apaar mahima of Pyara Preetam Sachay Patshah Wahiguru Akal Purukh.

Sat Sree Akal.

[simran345]

You are most welcome Simran Pen Jee.

Well more than depth, I would say, some clarifictaions were needed, as Preet Pen Jee had made some observations.

Any how, if someone willingly closes oneself, no matter what one may say, not a single penny will go inside that person.

I am glad at least you understood.

The 3 bodies on the soul, are, the physical one or the gross material body; then the subtler astral body, and then the causal one, the subtlest one.

But subtler even than all this, is the soul, a drop of the Infinte samundar Wahiguru Akal Purukh, the source of everything, and when with the aid of Shabad or Nam, one cuts all these layers upon the soul, and washes the sins or karmas of countless lives, only then we become pure paviter, spotless, and become worthy with His Grace to merge in Him, never ever otherwise.

It is then, when the Bani says : Nanak Naam jahaz hae, jin chareeya, se utareeya paar.

But then we may ask, paar from where to where?

From Brahm or mayavee creation(which consists of the gross, the astral and the causal realms, thus known also as triloki creation), to the Paarbrahm creation, means beyond the reach of mind, maya or Kal Purukh.

From there on, the Jahaaz of Naam, takes the sikh soul, direct to the lap of Wahiguru Akal Purukh, our True Father.

Wahiguru is happy beyond description, upon receiving back His beloved astrayed soul in the wheel of 84 .

Once there in Sach Khand, the passenger soul, the charioter Naam, blend and become one with Wahiguru without any distinction.

Such is the apaar mahima of Pyara Preetam Sachay Patshah Wahiguru Akal Purukh.

Sat Sree Akal.

Thank you Ji for explaining it, now I understand it, the soul being the charioter of Naam, as you said is the only that will carry one across. Nothing else goes with us.

"Nanak Naam jahaz hae, jin chareeya, se utareeya paar."

That's why sianeh say, Jera charh gea, ohi thargea, I used to hear this from the elders.

I try to understand Paji, but meri mat thori a.

Bhul chuk maf karna Ji.