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Proper Manners In The Darbar Sahib

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So basically recently I've started going to my Gurudwara after all the programs end, usually right. My Gurudwara has no problem with it so I am able to go do my banis in peace upstairs, I have noticed however some pretty strange things taking place though. First off people seem to think that after the program has ended that they can stand around and have conversations, while Maharaj is still present, in many cases they shout as well, laugh giggle. I have no problem with people doing this in the Langar hall, but upstairs in Sach Khand I do find it a bit unorthodox.

To further exemplify this, I was reciting bani one day when a random man came in with his grandson and started beating the Tabla and Harmonium. At that time it wasn't just me doing bani jaap but others too, it was hugely distracting to us and it was clearly visible what we were doing so people should at-least have respect for the banis.

Perhaps I am being too uptight but it seems to me people treat Guru Sahib's Darbar as their own house, my question is as follows, is there actually set rules (like in stone through a maryada) about how to have proper etiquette in the presence of Guru Sahib.

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Guest Jacfsing2

So basically recently I've started going to my Gurudwara after all the programs end, usually right. My Gurudwara has no problem with it so I am able to go do my banis in peace upstairs, I have noticed however some pretty strange things taking place though. First off people seem to think that after the program has ended that they can stand around and have conversations, while Maharaj is still present, in many cases they shout as well, laugh giggle. I have no problem with people doing this in the Langar hall, but upstairs in Sach Khand I do find it a bit unorthodox.

To further exemplify this, I was reciting bani one day when a random man came in with his grandson and started beating the Tabla and Harmonium. At that time it wasn't just me doing bani jaap but others too, it was hugely distracting to us and it was clearly visible what we were doing so people should at-least have respect for the banis.

Perhaps I am being too uptight but it seems to me people treat Guru Sahib's Darbar as their own house, my question is as follows, is there actually set rules (like in stone through a maryada) about how to have proper etiquette in the presence of Guru Sahib.

There's actually a lot of rules on Gurdwara Etiquette, (in fact the rules are so specific that Daas couldn't go into depth in my GurSikhi blog: http://gurukisikhi.weebly.com/) If you read sections 3 and 4 you'll see the rules are hard as stone, the rest is just how someone perceives proper respect for Guru Sahib. http://www.gurunanakdarbar.net/sikhrehatmaryada.pdf

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Guest dhan waheguru

Jacfsingh jee

I just went through the link u posted

It somewhere says, can a non sikh merge with waheguru

Nd the answer is no.

There are examples from the history of the people who attained waheguru with faith and love( they were not sikhs though)

Bhagat dhanna Ji attained vaheguru from stones, given to him by pandit tarlochan( who wasnt a bramhgiani at that time, he never had darshan himself)

So he wasnt a true guru but dhanna jee got Waheguru becoz of love and faith

( jin prem kio tinhi parabh paayio)

Dasam guru ji said this who will love god, will find him, he doesn't mention u should have to have a sikh.

Bhagat ravidas ji too worshipped stones at first that r goven by ramanand jee, nd attained waheguru

Guru nanak jee alao said,

asankh japp asankh bhayo

Asankh pooja asankh tap tayo

Means infinite are the kinds of simrans

Infinite are the types of loves

Infinite are the types of pooj faiths

Nd infinite are the types of tap nd sewas etc

One have to have a strong love, but thats not compulsory tagt he need to be a sikh for attain waheguru

(However the sikh path is the shortest, easiest nd most scientific paath, which is very very helpful for sikhs to attain waheguru , our guru sahibs created sikh path for us becoz it is the most appropriate path for humans, but there are infinite ways of other simran abhiyas etc for God)

We just know we love sikhi nd we will follow sikhi, but we should write on internet, as ur posted link shows, one have to be a sikh only then he can merge with god, thats not correct

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A lot of this was perfectly understood without being explicitly stated when I was a child. An unspoken etiquette that was just known to all. It didn't need expressing or explaining. A solemn, respectful demeanour in Darbar Sahib. Simple.

Another example of the continual erosion of standards and just a complete lack of respect on the part of people these days, which is a reflection of their own lackadaisical approach to their own lives.

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What annoys me is the number of people (yes, even our elders and "betters") who will have their phone on the loudest setting and then, when it goes off, have the audacity to answer it and have a conversation while paath is going on. Are you there for a gossip or to listen to GuruJi? FFS!!

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So basically recently I've started going to my Gurudwara after all the programs end, usually right. My Gurudwara has no problem with it so I am able to go do my banis in peace upstairs, I have noticed however some pretty strange things taking place though. First off people seem to think that after the program has ended that they can stand around and have conversations, while Maharaj is still present, in many cases they shout as well, laugh giggle. I have no problem with people doing this in the Langar hall, but upstairs in Sach Khand I do find it a bit unorthodox.

To further exemplify this, I was reciting bani one day when a random man came in with his grandson and started beating the Tabla and Harmonium. At that time it wasn't just me doing bani jaap but others too, it was hugely distracting to us and it was clearly visible what we were doing so people should at-least have respect for the banis.

Perhaps I am being too uptight but it seems to me people treat Guru Sahib's Darbar as their own house, my question is as follows, is there actually set rules (like in stone through a maryada) about how to have proper etiquette in the presence of Guru Sahib.

You should point this out to the commitee, they could get signs put up in the gurdwara about Gurdwara etiquette.

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Jacfsingh jee

I just went through the link u posted

It somewhere says, can a non sikh merge with waheguru

Nd the answer is no.

There are examples from the history of the people who attained waheguru with faith and love( they were not sikhs though)

Bhagat dhanna Ji attained vaheguru from stones, given to him by pandit tarlochan( who wasnt a bramhgiani at that time, he never had darshan himself)

So he wasnt a true guru but dhanna jee got Waheguru becoz of love and faith

Actually the reason he gained Darshan was due to his his meditation through his past lives, don't imply Guru Sahib was fine with people worshipping stones. Bhagat Dhanna Ji didn't have a true Guru as a teacher in that life however he did have many countless lifetimes of Naam Simran with him revealed to him by a spiritually elevated person (not sure if the being was a true Satguru or not so will check so for now I'll say Spiritually elevated being), hence why his desire came true instantly.

Bhagat ravidas ji too worshipped stones at first that r goven by ramanand jee, nd attained waheguru

Yeah and worshipping stones was futile so he abandoned it. Naam Simran is how he attained it.

( jin prem kio tinhi parabh paayio)

Dasam guru ji said this who will love god, will find him, he doesn't mention u should have to have a sikh.

Sikh is a pretty broad term, only way to acquire god is through a satguru.

What annoys me is the number of people (yes, even our elders and "betters") who will have their phone on the loudest setting and then, when it goes off, have the audacity to answer it and have a conversation while paath is going on. Are you there for a gossip or to listen to GuruJi? FFS!

Yeah that's what I mean, people seem to treat programs endings (after Anand Sahib and Ardass) as a sign to stop being respectful in the Darbar Hall.

There's actually a lot of rules on Gurdwara Etiquette, (in fact the rules are so specific that Daas couldn't go into depth in my GurSikhi blog: http://gurukisikhi.weebly.com/) If you read sections 3 and 4 you'll see the rules are hard as stone, the rest is just how someone perceives proper respect for Guru Sahib. http://www.gurunanakdarbar.net/sikhrehatmaryada.pdf

That link doesn't really help, not at all actually. Most of these are instructions of what NOT to do inside a Gurudwara, My question is how to correctly behave in one. Set in stone I mean.

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Jacfsingh jee

I just went through the link u posted

It somewhere says, can a non sikh merge with waheguru

Nd the answer is no.

There are examples from the history of the people who attained waheguru with faith and love( they were not sikhs though)

No one ever attained Vaheguru without falling at the feet of Satguru Nanak Dev ji. Any person named in Gurbani who received liberation was through Satguru Nanak Dev ji. Satguru is not limited to the physical form. He is the ONLY true teacher in this creation who with his kirpa becomes one with Vaheguru. True love and faith are only achieved through Satguru Nanak Dev ji. There are many good conducts committed by people and many good people, but none of them attain liberation without the kirpa of Satguru Nanak Dev ji/Shabad Guru/Gurbani/Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji/Guru's Bani.

Bhagat dhanna Ji attained vaheguru from stones, given to him by pandit tarlochan( who wasnt a bramhgiani at that time, he never had darshan himself)

So he wasnt a true guru but dhanna jee got Waheguru becoz of love and faith

In Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, the Gurus tell us Bhagat Dhanna Jatt ji achieved liberation because of his child-like innocence. I forget the ang this is exactly written. Bhagat ji could have worshipped a goat and Vaheguru would have came to him because of his child-like innocence. Vaheguru is in everything, but we (Sikhs) and Bhagat Dhanna Jatt ji only worships Akal Purakh after meeting the True Guru, Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji.

( jin prem kio tinhi parabh paayio)

Dasam guru ji said this who will love god, will find him, he doesn't mention u should have to have a sikh.

You are nitpicking at Gurbani and taking it out of context. Finish the tuk off and it says, come to my(Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji) house whoever chooses to play the game of love and don't look anywhere else. Satguru says come to me, which means the person comes as a Sikh.

Bhagat ravidas ji too worshipped stones at first that r goven by ramanand jee, nd attained waheguru

I don't know where you are getting this false information from. Learn from Gurbani and you will find the true answers. People, websites, elders, scholars, professors, etc are all failures who hold to such beliefs because Gurbani never says this. I can't be a student of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, if I will not learn, accept, and apply the teachings of our Gurus.

Guru nanak jee alao said,

asankh japp asankh bhayo

Asankh pooja asankh tap tayo

Means infinite are the kinds of simrans

Infinite are the types of loves

Infinite are the types of pooj faiths

Nd infinite are the types of tap nd sewas etc

Again nitpicking at Gurbani and not taking the whole shabad. With your kind of behavior, I can prove Gurbani says to kill anyone who does not believe in Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji.

One have to have a strong love, but thats not compulsory tagt he need to be a sikh for attain waheguru

Sounds like you have been reading the self proclaimed doctor of Gurbani writing, Dr. I.J. Singh. Start reading Gurbani and in context.

(However the sikh path is the shortest, easiest nd most scientific paath, which is very very helpful for sikhs to attain waheguru , our guru sahibs created sikh path for us becoz it is the most appropriate path for humans, but there are infinite ways of other simran abhiyas etc for God)

More unfounded statements with no evidence to provide support for them. Sure there are many ways to do simran, but only the simran done as Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji prescribes is going to be approved and accepted by Vaheguru. Next you will proclaim another false statement many choose to make that Bhagat Kabir ji was a Muslim and every other Bhagat was either Muslim or Hindu.

We just know we love sikhi nd we will follow sikhi, but we should write on internet, as ur posted link shows, one have to be a sikh only then he can merge with god, thats not correct

This has been answered above. Gurbani is the only true source to Akal Purakh. There is no if, and, buts about it. I have been short with you in this post because of time restraint. However do your studies on Gurbani and you will not run into these common and most obvious mistakes. Many people don't do there research and rely on others to provide them with information on the Gurus teachings. These people should ask themselves, if they had cancer will they rely on uneducated people to provide them with treatment? Never, not ever, yet these people rely on the uneducated for answers to the teachings of the Guru. Guru Sahib says it himself, there is countless people who meditate on Vaheguru and countless teachers, but only the one's who fall at the feet of Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji will they attain liberation/oneness with Vaheguru. It is no secret in Gurbani. Guru Sahib says it many times. These ears were created to listen to the true teachings of Gurbani, why have they started listening to falsehood and proclaiming it to be true? Guru Sahib says, come Sikhs and listen to the true teachings of Gurbani, listen and attain the true teachings. Go searching else where and even the wise ones have said there is liberation no where else. Fall at the feet of Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji and don't look back; there is only darkness

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Guest Jacfsing2

Jacfsingh jee

I just went through the link u posted

It somewhere says, can a non sikh merge with waheguru

Nd the answer is no.

There are examples from the history of the people who attained waheguru with faith and love( they were not sikhs though)

Bhagat dhanna Ji attained vaheguru from stones, given to him by pandit tarlochan( who wasnt a bramhgiani at that time, he never had darshan himself)

So he wasnt a true guru but dhanna jee got Waheguru becoz of love and faith

( jin prem kio tinhi parabh paayio)

Dasam guru ji said this who will love god, will find him, he doesn't mention u should have to have a sikh.

Bhagat ravidas ji too worshipped stones at first that r goven by ramanand jee, nd attained waheguru

Guru nanak jee alao said,

asankh japp asankh bhayo

Asankh pooja asankh tap tayo

Means infinite are the kinds of simrans

Infinite are the types of loves

Infinite are the types of pooj faiths

Nd infinite are the types of tap nd sewas etc

One have to have a strong love, but thats not compulsory tagt he need to be a sikh for attain waheguru

(However the sikh path is the shortest, easiest nd most scientific paath, which is very very helpful for sikhs to attain waheguru , our guru sahibs created sikh path for us becoz it is the most appropriate path for humans, but there are infinite ways of other simran abhiyas etc for God)

We just know we love sikhi nd we will follow sikhi, but we should write on internet, as ur posted link shows, one have to be a sikh only then he can merge with god, thats not correct

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Daas himself wrote that, and Daas himself still agrees with that. It is us who define Sikhi as just an external thing because some of us believe that Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji only existed starting in 1469, when in reality, he himself existed for all eternity; because he is Vaheguru. Don't stop the story half-way, of course the bhagats used to do bhagti of stones, but many eventually got Mukti through Naam Simran, (in other religions, Naam is non-existent). Daas does agree with you, prem is important to meet Vaheguru; however, prem is the beginning of how one can merge with Vaheguru, you need the Satguru to merge with Vaheguru. Daas will continue posting on his blog, to the best of Daas's abiliy, only Gurmat; regardless, how popular or unpopular the views will be. (Bhul Chuk Maaf Karni). Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

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Guest Jacfsing2

That link doesn't really help, not at all actually. Most of these are instructions of what NOT to do inside a Gurudwara, My question is how to correctly behave in one. Set in stone I mean.

Daas hasn't found a guide on what to do inside a Gurdwara; (though posting the BasicsOfSikhi resource for Gurdwaras would be a good start)?

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Nothing stops you from making a silence please sign when many people are reciting bani. Just point the sign out to offenders when you get offenders. A polite notice on the door of the guradwara when you enter can do too. A proactive appoach (which many of us refrain from taking) works best as your problem gets sorted out and you are comfortable too.

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