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Some Home Truths


Guest jagsaw singh
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Guest London jwaan
23 hours ago, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

Guest London Jawaan. You don't seem capable of conversing with people with dignity and respect but I'm not going to sink down to your level.  The fact that first cousin marriage is the norm among Arora Sikhs is known to everyone but yourself. You could easily have researched it before throwing insults around.

What I am capable of, behvkoof Singh, is not talking out of rear cavity, which seems to be your preferred approach.

Your stereotypical BS is so nonsensical, I'm still waiting for you to evidence where a yahoo of Russians beat up 150,000 English football supporters......

And it is not typical of arora Sikhs to marry their first cousins. This is yet another baseless bullocks generalisation that had come out of your jagsaw. The "norm" based off your behvkoof delusions?

I would go as far as to say that not only are you this forums uncontested resident behvkoof, you are also a first class t**ser.

Waheguru JI ka Khalsa, Waheguru JI ki fateh 

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1 hour ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Respectfully, I follow Gurbani which is our living Guru and not any human 'sant' who can have their own opinion. He would have been brought up and instructed in DDT philosophy which as pointed out keeps women from most seva not just Panj Pyaras. And the reasoning has to do with impurity and menstruation. The current DDT can't make any more claim to be 'THE' original started by Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself than any other and anyway aren't we supposed to be a panth and not split into jathas etc? The panthic Rehet Maryada states there is no difference with seva between male and female which are equals. Gurbani our only living guru says every human are to be treated equally. That is all we should go by. Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave the panth ability to make decisions and hence we have Sikh Rehet Maryada. The panth IS the word of the Guru, not just one jatha. 

You can't even understand and read punjabi or gurmukhi.  Then you put words in Sant ji mouth.  You can't even read and understand Gurbani, yet you are telling me and Sant ji what Gurbani says????  You are worse than the Hindus who Gurbani says are blind.  English translations done by yoga worshippers is not a repsentation of my Guru; Gurbani.  You have not even entered the door of Gurbani,standing a thousand feet outside, yet you have the nerve to run your mouth on Sikh forums.  

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Guest Caernarfon Jwaan
On 3/18/2017 at 9:41 PM, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

Guest London Jawaan. You don't seem capable of conversing with people with dignity and respect but I'm not going to sink down to your level.  The fact that first cousin marriage is the norm among Arora Sikhs is known to everyone but yourself. You could easily have researched it before throwing insults around.

laughing.gif

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Woman have the god given right to give human birth (miri) so God gave man the right to give Spiritual Birth (Piri). This way both sexes have the right and the choice to "give birth" so to speak and both are incomplete without the other. You can't become Amritdhari unless you are born and vice versa. This isn't sexism, its equality. 

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8 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Respectfully, I follow Gurbani which is our living Guru and not any human 'sant' who can have their own opinion. He would have been brought up and instructed in DDT philosophy which as pointed out keeps women from most seva not just Panj Pyaras. And the reasoning has to do with impurity and menstruation. The current DDT can't make any more claim to be 'THE' original started by Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself than any other and anyway aren't we supposed to be a panth and not split into jathas etc? The panthic Rehet Maryada states there is no difference with seva between male and female which are equals. Gurbani our only living guru says every human are to be treated equally. That is all we should go by. Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave the panth ability to make decisions and hence we have Sikh Rehet Maryada. The panth IS the word of the Guru, not just one jatha. 

The Panth Rehit Maryada was created in the 1930s, it took over 20 years (even longer than that maybe) to get it sorted and even then people bickered and walked out on it. The Rehit Maryada is extremely controversial and using it as a standard is alot like using Prithi Chand as an example of a model Gursikh.  

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6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

... show me where anywhere in Gurbani that it says women should have less rights in Sikhi.

It doesn't say it anywhere. Now you show us in Gurbani where it says to take "Khande di pahul".

 

8 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Respectfully, I follow Gurbani which is our living Guru and not any human 'sant' who can have their own opinion. He would have been brought up and instructed in DDT philosophy which as pointed out keeps women from most seva not just Panj Pyaras.

Taksal only at their own gurdwaras do their own sewa. They do not stop any women from doing sewa at any other gurdwaras so stop lying.

 

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

...  Remember I am married to a Punjabi Amritdhari Singh and I double check everything. He has yet to find any tuk in Gurbani to suggest that women should have less rights.

 

The same husband you looked on as ahorse on your wedding day. All you have to do is give him a nose-bag and a bucket of water and he will say what you want him to say.

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

...  Besides that Sikh Rehet Maryada is EXPLICIT on the issue. It's a moot point as far as Akal Takht is concerned.

 

It was forced onto the Panth. Next time you go india, take your husband/horse and go to Sri Akal Takht Sahib and ask them to include women in their monthly sinchaars there.

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

...  Sants from different jathas have disagreed with one another.

 

give one example.

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

...

By the way his reasoning that 'no woman gave her head that day' doesn't make sense. No white man gave his head that day but you won't condemn all white male sikhs from ever being Panj payaras will you? No black man did either. How about Singh's with names different than the original five or castes different? They didn't give their head that day either so we should keep all of them from doing this seva as well? Ask yourself why only gender matters and has to be replicated as the original but no other aspect must be???? It's simply male bias and chauvinism. Nothing more. It's MALE ego and NOT our Guru who wants to limit women.

 

You have already had your answer to this.

Is this male bias and chauvinism:

 

 

ਜਿਉ ਪੁਰਖੈ ਘਰਿ ਭਗਤੀ ਨਾਰਿ ਹੈ ਅਤਿ ਲੋਚੈ ਭਗਤੀ ਭਾਇ
ਬਹੁ ਰਸ ਸਾਲਣੇ ਸਵਾਰਦੀ ਖਟ ਰਸ ਮੀਠੇ ਪਾਇ .
ਤਿਉ ਬਾਣੀ ਭਗਤ ਸਲਾਹਦੇ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੈ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ
 
੧੪੧੩

 

Now you will say "why isnt there a verse for men to serve their wives with the same devotion?"

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

.

I promise I will get my Punjabi husband to also read it.

 

He doesn't sound like someone who could read. neigh, whinny and trump yes.

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

..

I am sure all of the other Kaurs on here would love to see solid evidence that we are to have lesser rights straight from our Guru... once and for all show us.

 

Speak for yourself. The other kaurs on this fourm have already tried to warn you from making an imbecile of yourself on another public forum. But you haven't listened. Stop trying to drag them into your stupidity and discussions.

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

And once you do (if you can even find anything remotely suggesting that) I will post many many shabads which show the equality of ALL humans as equal carriers of the divine light. 

Humans?  Only humans?

Post them then.

I will post shabads which show that the divine light in carried in all vegetation, animal life, AND humans. Even stones. And more.

 

 

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7 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

 

I promise I will get my Punjabi husband to also read it. 

I am sure all of the other Kaurs on here would love to see solid evidence that we are to have lesser rights straight from our Guru... once and for all show us. 

And once you do (if you can even find anything remotely suggesting that) I will post many many shabads which show the equality of ALL humans as equal carriers of the divine light. 

Instead of getting somebody else to read Gurbani for you, why don't you try learning it yourself, so you can read it and understand it yourself too. 

 

Talk for yourself, as a female I accept the way the Panj Pyare are. And that doesn't make me have sheep mentality before you say that too. It's just that I don't make a song and dance about being a woman. I'm all for women's rights and defending ourselves, but if I can accept it, why can't you penji? Why would you want to change something that's been the same from beginning of Sikhi just to please yourself and that you have no understanding of. And you can stop insulting Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji, he had so much kamaiyee and you think you're avasta is better than his? 

Manu tha lagda hatna nai tu drame karn, par hun boring hogeyi a. Change the topic because I'm reading this on other posts too, that's all you go on out, the Panj Pyare, and mixing it in other posts too. Hor koi gal nai aundi? 

And which Sants of different jathas are you even on about ? I've never seen or heard any Sants or Mahapursh argue or debate with other or belittle anybody, so what exactly are you talking about? 

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4 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Bhen Ji 

dont paint yourself lower because of your gender and don't listen to these guys. Sikh Rehet Maryada says you are every bit as capable as they are. They love nothing more than to make you believe you deserve less than they do. But why? You have ask why? Only Hindu believe women were born that way as a punishment and that they have to do service of men (husband) to advance through this and the other 6 lifetimes before being born male and having privilege. Our Gurus did not think this way. You are not born in a lower body as some punishment where you have to do service of men and live a less life. In Kashmir here most families are Amritdhari much higher rate than in Punjab. You won't see cut hairs here or clean shaven. And we don't practice discrimination. Women have been president of Gurdwara, Panj Pyaras and everything in between. We follow only Sikh Rehet Maryada even in historical Gurdwaras here. World didn't shatter when Kaurs were Panj Pyaras. The men didn't feel stepped on or had something taken away because their egos were not so large here. Even the males who regularly do seva as Panj Pyaras tell at every sinchar to the Kaur's present that they want to see some of them do that same seva someday and to never let anyone tell them they have limitations for being female.  By the way you may have guessed this is not Harkiran but her husband. I fully support equality of women. I have told her it's not worth arguing with close minded backward people. 

Be quiet, I'm not painting myself lower than men. But I'm not going to belittle brothers that don't do what you make out. It's not about close minded people, it's about respect. Since I've been reading Harkiran's 10 page lectures, the only thing I'm reading is women this, women that, eh voh. Big deal she's a woman, but she's belittling  people on here and trying to brainwash women into thinking that Sikh men are discriminating against women. 

I haven't heard of any disputes of Panj Pyare seva in our area or anywhere for that matter. This is the first time I'm hearing it and to me it sounds you're both exaggerating something that isn't a big issue as you're making out to be. Good luck to you both in your sewa though. 

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